DIRTY BOMB UPDATE: Version 16895

(SockDog) #101

[QUOTE=Anti;431597]OK, see your point. To me that old system feels pretty odd though, I don’t feel it’s right or really fair that players health bars are adjusting two ways mid fire fight, I think it can add a lot of confusion. Personally I’d prefer that healing occurs just off the front line or post-push when an area is secured.

The sort of ‘extra push’ you’re talking about in this scenario, for the attacker, is really where the Assault class should be leading your line rather than HP packs being used to augment your health pools mid fight. Maybe it’s a case of him not having enough health right now to be viable at doing that.[/QUOTE]

I like this train of thought, it means firefights are largely decided by a single pool of health. Players need to know when to take cover and heal or die and wait for a revive. In short it stops players with super accurate aim being fed packs and destroying the other team, now they need to withdraw one way or another.

On LB this was working well, both teams were clearing the the area for the carry objective it just seems the pickup mechanic is broken which is currently hindering the attackers taking advantage of the pickup. With that fixed I’d like to see how this plays out over time.

I’m also sure the medic’s inability to be one of those super accurate players and self heal mid fight is causing a lot of the backlash, I have no pity for these people losing their advantage, how sad you now need to fight 100hp vs 100hp.

(INF3RN0) #102

[QUOTE=Anti;431592]Can you give some examples of how you would have used the old mechanic? Interested to know because I can’t think of very many.
[/QUOTE]

I am all about punishing bad rambo medics and I do love how the regen effects them in that aspect. I do find that in DB at least the raw heal packing makes a lot of difference when it comes to supporting your teammates in pushes. I get that healing makes a big difference in damage exchanges and that can be a turn off at times, but in a lot of cases it’s almost a requirement to make headway. Soldier can do a lot of damage, but some map areas are so defensively biased that it becomes a huge challenge to break the defense without medic healing being a deciding factor. The packing for teammates allowed the fights to keep momentum, where as now you have to run back and wait to heal. At the same time the defense does the same thing and you end up in a lot of stalemate situations. I like the effect on medpack reliant rambo meds, but I also think it hurt the support-play element that medics brought to fights.

(tokamak) #103

Theoretically it seems to favour defenders over attackers. Defenders won’t suffer from the delay as much as the attackers because time is on their side.

(Scrupus) #104

I’ve only played a few matches with the new patch yet (4-5), so just some quick initial impressions:

  • New carryable mechanics is interesting, except for the no shooting bit. I need more testing with those objectives though.
  • New health/medic system is fine IMO, just takes a little while to get used to. For example, currently hard to judge when and where to drop packs to make them most useful. But all in all, it seems to work fine - regen starts quickly and I felt most of the packs I handed out did the job.
  • For some reason I found it harder to difference friend from foe again with this patch - I wonder if the more blueish lightning (on whitechapel at least), somehow affect the team colors as well?
  • Engy shotgun blasts was fun but probably too powerful - and the mines are really too powerful and hard to detect in time
  • Got a lot more crashes when loading maps, but have to see if this continues or not. Really wonder what is triggering this, as it seems so random - sure it’s not a server prob?
  • Good changes on the maps, I like most of it.

I think you have to deal with the mines (and maybe the no shooting while carrying issue) with a hotfix pretty quickly, if not I fear servers will quickly be empty or filled with engies only. But the rest of the changes are mostly okay IMO and no big prob to test for a while.

Keep it coming! :slight_smile:

(Samurai.) #105

Im not too sure why there seem to be alot of angry players here with this patch, even if elements change the gameplay drastically like introducing a shotgun… you need to embrace it rather than just be angry all the time… yeah it gets annoying but when you use it, its so much fun… this patch was probably the first time the game made me lol hard on TS with friends rather than being super serious elitist kind of aiming game, that requires full concentration.

General feedback from my pov.

Positives:

[ul]
[li]Crosshair is nice, ideally i’d remove the lines and make the dot slightly bigger + shadow but it’ll do for the alpha as it is.
[/li][li]Firefights seem calmer/reducing the flinch when hit makes it alot smoother (generally nicer to fight each other).
[/li][li]Map changes in terms of new walls/objects for cover, generally feel like they have been good decisions and have subtle impact but useful.
[/li][li]Med packs, i like the idea that they stop healing when hit, stops people running away while healing up.
[/li][li]Mines fit the type of maps/gameplay probably better than turrets, just need tweaking in their mechanics.
[/li][li]Haven’t properly tested it, but seems like fops airstrike is abit more useful for killing players this patch.
[/li][li]Warmup respawning is probably the best part of the update along with the crosshair.
[/li][li]Knife seems a lot more civilized and functions how i would imagine it should.
[/li][/ul]

Negatives / Improvements

[ul]
[li]Carry objectives - need the ability to shoot while carrying + defense can instant return.
[/li][li]The 1 shot shotgun at close range, should probably be reduced to 2 shots, other than that i like the shotgun as it is.
[/li][li]Mines need brighter visuals to tell team/enemy mine + a slightly longer delay before exploding, to allow damage but not kills every time also maybe a short arming time?
[/li][li]Still a ton of collisions/area’s that get you stuck exist in these maps, but i guess this will take a while to solve.
[/li][li]Medpacks probably heal for too much hp right now.
[/li][/ul]

(MrEd) #106

[QUOTE=Samurai.;431647]

[ul]
[li]Mines need brighter visuals to tell team/enemy mine + a slightly longer delay before exploding, to allow damage but not kills every time also maybe a short arming time?[/li][/ul][/QUOTE]

When you say a short arming time do you mean a manual interaction from the player or just an automatic delay? If manual, would you want that in hand or on the floor?

(Anti) #107

[QUOTE=Hyperg;431616]Ah, ok, I see the idea with establishing the soldier as the push pivot, but indeed, the solly needs some “kick” so that the role becomes obvious (kinda like the ubered heavy + medic in tf2). I’d say to tread carefully though on pinning roles to classes, as ppl will always try to be creative about their tactical solutions, so if you’ll always need a solly for this kindof push and nothing else will “feel right”, its bound to cause some debate.

As for the health bars going both ways, solution is rather simple gameplay-wise and pretty much every established team will do that: focus down the medics.[/QUOTE]

For sure, you should never require a Soldier to push, but he should be the optimal pusher.

(Maca) #108

Manual arming after the mine has been placed. Currently engy items (mines more so than turrets because turrets were nerfed so much) are used very offensively. They can be just dropped without any consequence in a completely random spot and then engy can just continue shooting. It doesn’t matter how long it takes for the item to arm if the engy can just drop it and it arms itself on the ground (or it was pre-armed in the hands). If the engy items required the engy to stay put for a moment to arm them manually, he would actually need to care about enemy fire and where he is setting his items. The items would be used more for defense, for holding ground that is controlled by his team, which I have understood to be the role of engineer aside from doing objectives.

(Kendle) #109

Completely agree, as a general principle things the Engie can deploy should require him (or her) to take some positive action, i.e. arming, to deploy them, turrets as well as mines.

(en2ie) #110

Yeah I agree, a short arming (on the ground would be my choice) which prevents you from just dropping them at will.

I found myself throwing one mid fight… dying then getting a mine frag afterwards. :tongue:

(Kl3ppy) #111

What I like at this patch

[ul]
[li]Crosshair improvement
[/li][li]reduced hitback when hit makes the fights much better
[/li][li]WC Map improvement is pretty nice, Waterloo is ok
[/li][li]The heal mechanic is nice, I somehow like it
[/li][li]Arty is now much better, visually and spread wise
[/li][li]Mines are back
[/li][li]Delivery interaction at delivery objectives
[/li][li]gibbing engie girl sounds like porn :smiley:
[/li][/ul]

What I dont like

[ul]
[li]When carrying delivery you cant shot
[/li][li]shoty way to strong
[/li][li]too many mines right now, its beeping everywhere
[/li][li]mines are barely noticeable
[/li][li]somehow my cfg reseted :frowning:
[/li][/ul]

(Samurai.) #112

Yea sorry i mean manual interaction from the player instead of self arming, therefore players have to stop and arm them (it doesn’t particularly matter to me whether in hand or floor its more about making the player vulnerable to fire, preventing as people have already mentioned them being thrown mid fight and getting the kill afterwards also making it riskier to play offensive with mines round enemy spawns). Personally i would also like to see mines disappear after the player owning the mine has been killed - but this is more of an issue depending on how many mines the engineer is intended to have - i see it as either own 2 mines but disappear after death, or own 1 mine that stays after death.

(iwound) #113

Pleeease no more F key functions.
i can understand the need to arm the mine as to offset the bonus of using it ie having to take time out to arm it.
i think its too old school to have to kneel down and use pliers. im old my back cant take it.
If your going to try it out do a hand held animation of a press and a twiddle then throw down.
you then have to take time to arm but not stuck at one point its boring.
arming it in your hand you will be vulnerable as in you have the c4 and not a gun in your hand and to change weapon means youll have to re-arm all over again.

But it would be nice to move away from always having to stick a player in one spot.
with 2 mines it probably will get too spammy and it is supposed to be one.
if you add to that crouch arming then it swings too much the other way.

a hand held arming gesture could also be used for turrets another point of contention.

the less crouch and pliers action the better

(Bananas) #114

Make the medic packs heal 55 hp over time but stack. That way medics don’t always have so many packs available, but doesn’t slow down the time to heal.

For example, you’re a medic and you run away at 15 hp. Now you need to throw 2 packs at your feet to heal to full. The packs will “stack their healing” though, so you don’t have to time it right.

(Maca) #115

@iwound
I’m not completely adverse to that idea, of having to hold it in your hands for a while to pre-arm it, and then once it hits the ground it would still take a moment to “ready” itself like it does now. This way the deploying might still be quite fast, or even hard but possible to throw it in a firefight, but it would mostly be limited to defensive situations. If the pre-arm took a good bunch of seconds that is.
I would think it sets the role of engineer more if he had to stay put, but I do mostly prefer anything that doesn’t stop the player, so I would want to believe that’s enough. Perhaps make the movement slower while arming in hands? That might be completely missing the point of not interfering with movement though.
And yes, whichever method is chosen, it should be the same with all engy items, for simple consistency.

(SockDog) #116

Would this mean we could stop all the calls to make mines glow and have the effective damage of a wet fart? I mean it’s the same path the turrets went down to become incidental. What is annoying in this regard is that as each player has regen a mine or turret that doesn’t kill is basically useless unless that player isn’t then immediately finished off.

What I would like to try is that a thrown mine has a limited damage ability but can be hacked by the engineer to increase it’s detonation time and lethality. Same could apply to turrets although I still think those should just have a limited pool of ammo that needs to be replenished.

(Bananas) #117

As for mines, would people like them better if they were trip mines? Just curious. Proxies and trips function so differently.

(Samurai.) #118

Yeah i’d definitely welcome tripmines along with normal mines (place anywhere) if they function similar to QW… don’t know how hard it is to implement but again that’s not my problem :tongue:

(iwound) #119

[QUOTE=Maca;431719]@iwound
I’m not completely adverse to that idea, of having to hold it in your hands for a while to pre-arm it, and then once it hits the ground it would still take a moment to “ready” itself like it does now. This way the deploying might still be quite fast, or even hard but possible to throw it in a firefight, but it would mostly be limited to defensive situations. If the pre-arm took a good bunch of seconds that is.
I would think it sets the role of engineer more if he had to stay put, but I do mostly prefer anything that doesn’t stop the player, so I would want to believe that’s enough. Perhaps make the movement slower while arming in hands? That might be completely missing the point of not interfering with movement though.
And yes, whichever method is chosen, it should be the same with all engy items, for simple consistency.[/QUOTE]

i dont think how long it takes or slow down would hurt much. but a pre-arming is a better more enjoyable option.
and creates different options.
i love my mines. but just tossing them down is a bit simple.

i suppose we could also pre-arm C4. but thats a different story.

Trip mines would make a nice upgrade.

(Apples) #120

whine

…

/whine