[QUOTE=BMXer;432190]
But with the wonky strafe thing going on in DB, its hard to tell. Is it just me or is aiming in general seemed to be nerfed in DB?[/QUOTE]
I think it’s something you just have to get used to. I don’t really feel like it’s that significantly noticeable at the moment. I still think movement changes should be instantaneous fixed values if possible because it can very well screw with your head and visuals, but again I don’t really find it a huge problem atm.
Not trying to sound like a jerk… but have you played any other FPS games recently? Maybe you are getting used to it or something? Its either that or a specific problem with my system/setup because I find it incredibly annoying. I play a fair amount of Quake Live. If the strafe in QL felt like DB, there is no way I would be able to shoot LG. I even played some ETQW and it felt obviously better. I’ve never played an FPS game that’s strafe felt so bad.
TBH, I can’t believe EVERYONE isn’t bitching about it. That’s what makes me kinda think it’s my personal system. I was sure that the only reason I was able to win a single 1v1 was because everyone was dealing with this wonky crap too when they aim!
It might be an input lag problem I would think. I haven’t really heard much complaints about it. I recently played ET for a day and I didn’t really notice much of a significant difference in terms of handling. I think your system might be giving you trouble.
[QUOTE=BMXer;432194]Not trying to sound like a jerk… but have you played any other FPS games recently? Maybe you are getting used to it or something? Its either that or a specific problem with my system/setup because I find it incredibly annoying. I play a fair amount of Quake Live. If the strafe in QL felt like DB, there is no way I would be able to shoot LG. I even played some ETQW and it felt obviously better. I’ve never played an FPS game that’s strafe felt so bad.
TBH, I can’t believe EVERYONE isn’t bitching about it. That’s what makes me kinda think it’s my personal system. I was sure that the only reason I was able to win a single 1v1 was because everyone was dealing with this wonky crap too when they aim![/QUOTE]
It’s not just you BMX - the strafing mechanics and the delay of changing direction is very strange. I doubt it is input lag for the aiming portion as I’m running 400dpi on 144hz and a couple others running 800dpi on 120hz and it feels the same for them as well.
There isn’t any current topic about it at the moment, but people are “bitching” about it all the time. Personally I feel like I can’t use movement for aiming because strafing is so slow and clunky. I’m not expecting TF2 scout levels of movement aiming but now it’s just hideous.
I don´t mind. I see strafing as a way of mitigating the consequences of poor positioning.
It seems that I have to bitch about it more 
Strafing is really bad because of the very slow accelerating when changing directions. I have recently played some W:ET too and it also has a slight delay but nothing like in DB. Also you could sprint+strafe making it very nice. Without the sprint, strafing is pretty slow too.
In DB the movement seems fast with the unlimited sprint but when you stop and strafe, the gameplay just dies.
I’d prefer the ET limited stamina for running quickly back to frontline and it wouldn’t affect strafing. Strafe speed and/or acceleration upped.
And btw weapon spread doesn’t suffer while strafing like it was in W:ET. Penalties when moving forward, backward, jumping and running.
I was originally posting this on the weapon mechanics poll, but realised it makes more sense here:
This is where I am too.
I thought I was just out of practice, but after playing last week’s Nirvana (ETQWpro with the default spread reduction, AR and Lac mostly) my aim was fine; everything just felt so much more reliable and solid.
In comparison, DB feels spammy and sluggish, though I can’t put my finger exactly on what it is.
The centre dot makes a huge difference, but the surrounding crosshair is still a bit offputting. I used to set my ETQW crosshair as large as possible so the lines were away from my dot but I could use them to find the dot in poor-contrast. Can I do that here?
The strafe acceleration is still too low; I’ve found that changing direction under fire gets me killed more often than just continuing a strafe. It’s much more effective to just keep cover. I really miss being able to jump over… anything, really. (PLs pls pls add rampjumps pls pls even if you have to turn sprint into a short duration QCJ-like speed boost cause I and your maps will love you forever.)
The spread creep is fine under ideal conditions when you choose when to engage and can burst fire on a single target, but as soon as you’re faced with multiple enemies most guns rapidly turns into a garden hose. That tipping of the balance keeps forcing me towards camping rather than pushing forwards when I win an engagement and urgh it’s annoying, even if I can see some logic behind it.
The ROF on some guns (like the Eng1 secondary) kinda forces them into spammy messes. It might just be me, but on engineer I’ve had some distinctly Brink-like secondary experiences just putting my dot over the centre of mass and squeezing out a whole clip to score a kill.
The shotgun is still weird. There are times I’ve come face to face with another eng, shotgunned them in the chest, then been one-shotted with the shotty after my shotty didn’t one-shot them. They’re right in the middle of my star, and I dunno. Are people quickscoping with it, or something? I actually have no idea if scoping with the shotgun tightens the shot. I should check that.*
I suspect the shotgun is going to be a pain to balance. And it’s not like the eng can avoid the shotgun and take an AR, so you can’t just nerf it until no-one uses it. If you give it no headshot multiplier, and then balance it so the kill time is equal to other guns, it’ll require less skill to do the same damage output. If you balance it against other weapons doing purely bodyshots, it won’t be able to compete with anyone who can aim using other guns.
Maybe set damage so it’s a 1hs kill / 2-3 bodyshots with all pellets hitting, make scoping effect the spread (if it doesn’t already), set the spread so you can’t get all the pellets into the head hitbox unless you’re melee-range / scoping at close range, then adjust ROF to balance. And then vastly reduce the hip-to-scope time across the board and add red dots so the ironsights are less obtrusive and less like ADS and more like Q3A zoom but for close quarters. I guess that’d kinda turn the shotgun into the close quarters quick-scope sniper of DB?
*(Just checked: It does, but not by much. Eyeballing it, it looks like the spread pattern is about 0.9x height when scoped. So about ~20% more damage density? I guess that is quite a bit.)
I perfectly understand where you’re coming from but for me the little duel dance ritual from W:ET isn’t what I consider the full scope of gameplay.
Strafing lowers the importance of positioning. By definition it makes your location less relevant because you get to dodge bullets. This means you have to think less about where you’re standing and any mistakes made through rash decisions can be corrected by doing a little tap-dance.
This also means team-play and strategy becomes less important. It shifts the game from two teams fighting over space into a gigantic team deathmatch arena where objectives are an after thought.
I’m pulling it into the extreme of course but that’s generally the two main principles that are conflicting. I believe that DB already went too far into the rush and duel nature but I’m going along with it because I realise I’m in the minority. But take this even further and you start to unwind at some very important core principles and you make DB less of a tactical shooter altogether.
[QUOTE=shirosae;432261]
*(Just checked: It does, but not by much. Eyeballing it, it looks like the spread pattern is about 0.9x height when scoped. So about ~20% more damage density? I guess that is quite a bit.)[/QUOTE]
This could be a dumb question but why should a shotgun have reduced spread or is it cone. (off 1 shot) just because its ironsighted?
i thought ironsight was just a way of being able to get a better aim not have an internal bonus like this.
Also causing more damage by ironsight also doesnt make much sense to me.
im not talking about recoil creep btw.
Spread about simulating the amount of control you have over your weapon rather than the weapon´s innate accuracy. The alternative would be to have the shotgun cone centre deviate from the crosshair which would be disastrous to play with. Therefore a wider cone for higher spread.
[QUOTE=iwound;432274]This could be a dumb question but why should a shotgun have reduced spread or is it cone. (off 1 shot) just because its ironsighted?
i thought ironsight was just a way of being able to get a better aim not have an internal bonus like this.
Also causing more damage by ironsight also doesnt make much sense to me.
im not talking about recoil creep btw.[/QUOTE]
Purely to make the gun workable, is all. There’s no real world logic behind it at all.
Ironsighting already makes the other guns have less spread, so it might make sense to try it on the shotgun too to make it easier to balance against the other guns.
[QUOTE=tokamak;432262]I perfectly understand where you’re coming from but for me the little duel dance ritual from W:ET isn’t what I consider the full scope of gameplay.
Strafing lowers the importance of positioning. By definition it makes your location less relevant because you get to dodge bullets. This means you have to think less about where you’re standing and any mistakes made through rash decisions can be corrected by doing a little tap-dance.
This also means team-play and strategy becomes less important. It shifts the game from two teams fighting over space into a gigantic team deathmatch arena where objectives are an after thought.
I’m pulling it into the extreme of course but that’s generally the two main principles that are conflicting. I believe that DB already went too far into the rush and duel nature but I’m going along with it because I realise I’m in the minority. But take this even further and you start to unwind at some very important core principles and you make DB less of a tactical shooter altogether.[/QUOTE]
I’m pretty sure we’ve discussed this before, but I’ll chime in anyways. I agree with what you’re saying re. positioning, but is taking some of the importance away from that a bad thing? In most modern fps, positioning (which in no small part goes hand in hand with blind luck) is the primary deciding factor in encounters. In fact, things are usually skewed way too much in positioning’s favour, where getting the drop on someone tends to equal an easy kill. See the CoD and BF/BC games. With fast movement and strafing, position still gives a massive, massive advantage in coming out on top, but it also allows for aiming skill, movement skill and reactions to factor in too. It undumbs things down and makes combat less one dimensional and chance based.
I completely disagree about team play and tactics becoming less important, and even more so in team based games like RTCW and ET which are all about battles of attrition that demand high levels of teamplay and having to take into account the high movement speed when devising strategy. In fact the opposite is true - strategy and tactics become more involved when things speed up.
Strafe is for aim not just position, hence the spongy slowness of it’s current acceleration/deceleration is very hampering.
Waited a while before weighing in on the changes in this patch so I could give them a fair test. These thoughts are coming from an entirely public focused opinion - not everyone will play this game competitively.
Med-pack Changes
Initially I thought “WHAT HAVE YOU DONE??!” but to be honest I really like the changes now - it has largely prevented the running away self healing medic being a problem.
Mines
The mine damage I think is fine, if I walk over a mine I should die - that’s the point of a mine. The real issue I have found is how mines are being used offensively. The ease to just drop a mine means engineers use them just as much when attacking as defending - if you had to manually arm them this would be fair, and add the risk/reward element that mines don’t have at the moment. The one mine per person bug obviously doesn’t help here either.
Shotgun
Well I love the shotgun, it really mixes up combat forcing you to back off at times - but I would agree the one shot frags don’t feel very rewarding. Two shots up close would be fine.
Carry-able Objectives
Before the patch they seemed incredibly easy, but now the defense has a chance to put up more of a fight. Some people hate the “not being able to shoot while carrying them” but personally I think this is the best part. Every objective has risk and reward - you cannot shoot while planting a bomb, while repairing etc - that’s the risk you take. Before the patch picking up a carry-able had no real risk, running into a room of enemies isn’t a risk - its stupidity. Holding a carry-able gives the risk of not being able to defend yourself - with the reward of being able to complete the objective. You are also way more reliant on your team than before.
[QUOTE=en2ie;432306]Med-pack Changes
Initially I thought “WHAT HAVE YOU DONE??!” but to be honest I really like the changes now - it has largely prevented the running away self healing medic being a problem.[/QUOTE]
That was the only problem though. And now it affected a lot of other fun stuff, like medics quickly turning a situation on it’s head with instant heals.
I still stand by that we need a different solution for self-healing. This measure is far too broad and the delay just doesn’t match the frantic nature of DB.
I haven’t noticed much difference other than it being easier/quicker to heal multiple people. You can’t hide behind cover topping someone up while they’re being shot, though, which is a downside.
About strafe and delay:
[QUOTE=Smooth;430645]From standing to full sprint speed takes about 0.5s, running to full sprint speed around 0.3s. During this time you are constantly accelerating,
I think we could have the weapon-lower animation kick in a little sooner because currently it doesn’t begin until you reach maximum sprint speed.[/QUOTE]
It feels pretty much the same with strafing, but with slightly adjusted values. Maybe it is both, input lag and actual game, but imo it is def actual game. It just does not feel right and extreme unfun.
With strafing in W:ET you could use environment much better, in DB it is basically not possible, because you feel like a statue of some sort, once popping out of a corner and from there it is either do or die. This was different in W:ET and the strafing there gave imo more environmental and positional possibilities.
About med packs mechanics: i wrote a patch for it but it got missed or ignored 
Think it was #179. This is the only solution i can think of to solve the medicpack run away problem.
I assume.
acQu, well, why wouldn’t a medic then use only his injector and not toss medkits at all?
The behaviour you describe is the so called “ego-medic”, right? Then the same question can be asked with current patch. Why would i not just use the medic packs on myself all the time? Basically this is what the medic can do in this patch, throw a medic pack in front of him and heal himself with exact that same pack. Auto-injector seperates self-healing and healing others. You self heal over time via injection, and you toss med packs on the floor to insta heal your teammates. Both things can be done in this current patch, i only seperate this and hope to bring back good old med pack insta healing combined with anti self heal medic pack abuse