Dirty Bomb thoughts. [Damn I wrote an Essay]


(Cr4zy) #1

Fact, I wrote this bit by bit over the last week+ of playing DB, I get carried away, I do game design I question everything, I am an avid FPS player with hundreds to thousands of hours in UT/Quake/COD/TF2/NS2/BF/L4D/BRINK at casual and competitive level. So this is a 5000+ word essay, I hope it doesn’t go to waste, devs.

So after a week plus of playing Dirty Bomb again now it’s on Steam. I last played it in Summer for a few months before I gave up due to the lack of team play and back then there was a higher average skill playing ‘public’, honestly. It’s at the point where I really question if I should come back to playing it the next time.
Dirty Bomb is a fun game, no denying it. The problem is it’s Brink 2.0 which is good and bad, mainly bad. It suffers many of the same problems, but it’s a fun faced paced shooter when everyone is playing together, ignoring the fact it suffers balance issues that make certain encounters boring and annoying.

The team-based teamwork that doesn’t work.

I don’t know why there hasn’t been changes to the team play highlighting from the game design. Brink suffered the same problem, DB just follows on, from a score/reward perspective is designed like COD/BF. With big SHINY MEDAL GO YOU WOO!! popping up all the time you do something you should be doing anyway. This is great to make a person happy, terrible to get that person to understand this is a team game.
Why Brink was only really enjoyable, to me, was competitive and I feel like it’s the only way I’ll enjoy DB too. Public games are all about getting your score higher and kills higher so you can feel better than other players bad when, in reality, they do hardly anything for your team. Sure this depends greatly on your classes or team. Most people however are selecting the classes best at killing and not the best at teamwork.

That’s the problem this game suffers big time, you claim this is “the ultimate team-based F2P shooter”. In reality playing on public has practically 0 team-based actions other than medics doing what medics should do and ammo, actually no, hardly anyone drops anything but ammo stations where they sit alone. I feel like people play ammo classes and have no idea they can give other players ammo instantly at round start, let along when they’re calling for them.

For some reason you promote kills, you promote getting more kills meanwhile you do practically nothing to promote objectives or team play. How do you get the most points in a game?
A few methods, go proxy and destroy everyone with imbalanced shotguns while rushing objectives, plant, mine and die. While you respawn you’ll probably kill one or two people on a mine and then it gets defused, your team doesn’t want to go and defend that C4, they might die doing so, oh no.
Play TDM, take a super annoying class, Nader or RedEye and go kill hunting. Spam GL for some free kills and then have an equal fight with almost anyone with your SMG. Did you die? Martyrdom them, free kill 90% of the time (even though it used to be fine, nice rebalance…). RedEye hide in your own smoke in your base and snipe people who can rarely do anything because they cant see you, joy!
Go and play a pretty balanced class, fletcher, arty. Don’t care for your K/D, go be a medic, go be someone who defends or attacks the objectives over and over throwing yourself into a wall of enemies alone. You’re no good dead though, so you gotta kill those people between you and the objective, but with no one else seemingly giving a damn about that that’s more than you can handle unless you go phoenix and revive yourself. The game ends, and probably your score is lacklustre compared to the guy with 32/4, you can’t say things like ‘lack of teamwork’ or ‘lol 3 snipers on attack’ because they got more points while doing fuck all but shooting.
I am not going to say you can’t top a team with an abysmal K/D you can, I’ve done it frequently, but it’s not exactly a rewarding experience most gamers will want to accept with arms wide open. Ending a game on 6/23 with the most points at the end makes some people realise you do the objective and some people actually like that. Although why would someone who comes from BF4 or COD27 want to stop being the best scoring player with a K/D they got for sitting a mile away sniping? They don’t they have a mindset that is, this is what I do and I don’t care what anyone thinks. Even when they’re one of 4 snipers on a 6-man team that’s attacking on chapel…

If no one wants to do objectives because they’re not rewarding stop rewarding people who aren’t doing objectives in a team-based objective game. Maybe, take a look at a team-based FPS that did it right, that still has a massive public player base, that somehow has teamwork when nothing else does. Team Fortress 2. Why does TF2 succeed where everything else is laughable at best?
No score pop-ups, no ridiculous points for kills, rewards for objectives (push the cart > get healed and given ammo > complete map = WIN/WIN). Then the game ends, you’re shown a ‘X team wins!’ showing the people who completed the last step of the objective and the top 3 MVPs of that round and yes a Highest killstreak, but in TF2 only specific weapons even count towards killstreaks and more often than not those killstreaks are way under 10.

Maybe you check the scoreboard, that’s right you check it you arent forced into it. What’s that? Names and points, normally empty column, what’s that other number? Ping? Where is the K/D? Valve understood that in a team-based objective game no one cares. The generally blank column is for Streaks, as mentioned before these require specific guns (that most people don’t have) while also beign a random number you cant compare to anything.
You can see all of your own stats, Kills, Assists, Deaths, Damage, Healed and so on, you know how you got your points, who else needs to know you managed to top score with 6/23 as a medic who pushed the objective.
Yes, TF2 has classes that rely on killing things. Heavy is easily one of them, why is he also going to do objectives? It supports him, health and ammo as said before. Scout, fast agile killer, why is he going to do objective? It supports him and he gets 2x push speed for being awesome and helping the team! Most of a heavies points come from killing, mainly because they kill while around the objective, not sitting in their base on attack as a sniper…
It’s not 100% everyone in TF2 will do the job required, but its much more likely that at some point someone else will.

So what can DB do? Simple, get rid of K/D, it’s a stat that makes people want to brag about their skill rather than do something useful. Helps stop the superiority feeling those with a higher K/D like to go on about. Start rewarding players for objectives MORE. If that’s how you win the damn game, give them what they deserve, score, resupplies, defence, offence multipliers, MVP awards, mentions for most objective score.


(Cr4zy) #2

he ease of teamwork
(does that even make sense?)

Please, make team-based things way more obvious, faster and easier.
V-2-1 for Medic and V-2-2 are horribly annoying to do in action. V-G-S shazbot is easier to do and even remember because I haven’t played tribes in years. Either that or make Medic/Ammo call-outs easier.
This menu is annoyingly placed and tiny learning everything takes time and surely you will get better at it. But why can I not quickbind a single key to Instantly call for a medic or ammo? Sure I could macro a key but why should I have to.
Even after that lot all I’ve done is say “Medic” in-game and “Medic!” in chat. As a Medic, WHERE THE HELL IS THE GUY ASKING. Make him show up on the minimap with a ‘+’ over his icon. Make his name tag in the game show up with a ‘+’ so I can SEE him easily. The same should then apply for ammo on players.

Talking of the minimap, this thing is quite honestly useless right now. It’s tiny, it rotates and that annoys me because the larger one under scoreboard does not, so orientation is weird at time. Can that not be configurable?
It displays practically no information. Anything outside the current range of the map is drawn in bizarre places to “point” in the direction of the objective. I can accept that what I can’t accept is why the objective markers are then rendered on top of player markers. Effectively minimizing the information the minimap should be showing me even when it’s telling me nothing.
Why does it tell me nothing? It’s too small, the minimap art itself is ok, it’s a simple top-down drawing of the level, but bloody hell, it is tiny a quick glance doesn’t help me make anything out! I would LOVE for this thing to be scalable and configurable to suit my needs.
For whatever reason you’ve chosen to not make enemies appear on the map. I don’t know why I can’t see an enemy on the map who is engaging in combat with a teammate or a person I can see in the world. It feels odd, along with that, like I’ve said about the medic call-outs not being good enough, downed team-mates also don’t appear on the map?!

The large overview map would be a lot nicer if it had location names on, in fact I’d love something like Natural Selection 2, a special “large map” key which does similar to what “tab” currently does, but without the scoreboard, just the map. Add the place names to that map, make it easy to access with a keypress and now you have a map that people can read clearly, quickly and give call-outs depending on map locations that other people can figure out by reading the map. Simple feature, endless benefit.

The class balance

Class balance in general, there are so many things that fell bad to use but clearly many things are considerably better and what most of the higher level/skilled players solely use.

Proxy, Nader, Aura, Rhino, RedEye, Stoker. That I can think of right now have something that should, in my opinion, be adjusted.
Shotgun, GL & Martyrdom…, Shotgun & Heal station, Minigun (infinite use ability lel), Firerate on his rifle…, Molotov damage.

And I am sure everyone who plays these will be like, no it’s fine! Shotguns all around are silly, I play a lot of proxy and it’s hilarious taking the (weakest?) class into a 3-on-1 and winning with one shot shotgun kills. Along with the INCREDIBLE range that you can get some headshot kills at with these guns.

The amount of spam a GL can put out is annoying at best, game breaking at worst, but it looks pretty tame compared to the explosion time of martyrdom. Naders spamming nades into choke points are horrid people. All grenades feel extremely strong especially against weaker classes.

Heal station heal rate means almost everything in it is going to win a fight. Im not sure why it has to be so damn effective, it instantly puts a guy throwing med-packs around out of a job. Easy to get points, easy to use without having to be at a disadvantage for long, again unlike med-packs… Also, shotgun.

I get Rhino is the big dude, with a big gun. But this guy puts out hilarious damage and takes a serious beating. He has no downside to the minigun. The fact it uses no ammo and the only time it wont work is when not-spun up or overheated means anyone that uses it sensible and as a result more efficiently will never have a problem unless medics don’t do their job. He should be suppression, hard to kill but very annoying, not hard to kill and retarded to escape.

RedEye is a sniper, fine, RedEye does not need to have a ~40dmg? body shot weapon that fires as fast as the green dot SMG… The worst thing however, is the joy of being shot by a redeye half way across the map hiding in his own damn smoke like a bitch. You can’t see him as such you die to something you cant position yourself to avoid or see! That’s not fun, in any way, if I can’t combat it why am I even playing?

Molotovs are fine until you’re in one, or not in one but its still doing damage randomly, yay beta! However why does a Molotov single handedly destroy an EV, it’s absurd, repairing EV is hard enough due to issues describe previously but when a Stoker can pop a Molotov ontop of an EV and effectively stop all repairs or outright kill a working one, sheeesh.

Flashbangs are super annoying, compare them to CS, in CS they’re way easier to see coming and avoid (can I even avoid them in DB?) but they only impair vision in DB they impair vision AND movement, making you unable to counter the enemy and unable to escape, boring. Oh but you can spam jump like nothing happened so you can look like a jack in the box when you die.

But that’s only OP stuff, what about weak things?
Sentry gun? Poor bushwhacker got screwed over hard. It has some useful positions in maps, most however are not long lasting positions in evolving maps, I know before the damn thing was hilariously good. Now it feels very useless only to be used as a bullet eating distraction in most situations.
Sawbonez, I mean he’s cool but the only time I see him being played over other medics is when people don’t have other medics unlocked.
The default repair/defuse tool SUCKS. Like this thing is a horrible joke, it’s like 3x slower than the blowtorch/hack tool that engis have. Maybe default one should work with multiple people at once so at least you can work together to make it useful (imagine that encouraging teamwork) or you could just make it suck considerably less. Unless it’s not the problem and the other tool is OP?


(Cr4zy) #3

[b]The levels

Trainyard[/b]

Maps, the start of trainyard has actually improved a lot since I last played it, making more use of the movement, but the end feels like it needs a re-haul like the first section had, way too defender campy.
The first mounted gun in the broken building (left from attacker spawn). Damn thing couldn’t get more on my nerves if it tried, trying to jump into that building past the mounted gun results in the most horrendous collision experience ever. Please, do something about that.

The end of Trainyard however is a bit silly. The mounted gun here covers almost the entire approach plus the site. The delivery area is hard to enter without checking it is clear first, sitting under the windows of the upper building route you can’t be seen by attackers making that site clearing harder and longer.
I like the very wide range of approaches, the problem is even if you get to the site you’re being looked at from almost every defender position (unless they push up to the train). Bridge snipers need to barely move to see you, people in the upper building need to only look out the window, mounted gun can see you, and re-spawners have a nice direct route to your back when you deliver. Less around the edges cover of the site and more delivery area cover would make it a site that’s easy to check from all areas, but a site that’s less campy for the defence, maybe a broken window from the upper building would make nice for attackers to jump through too, or something special with movement, it’s very much like trainyard start used to be, everything let you just run, there are no fun side routes with advanced movement to get to your objective in the last section!
The worst bit is the detection of delivery and how you can only deliver from a certain distance though, damnit.

Terminal

It has always suffered from imbalanced teams on pub being a complete stomp and in my opinion more so than any other map. The Attacker spawn is so god damn easy to lock down from good defence, close the gas tunnel and their entire team is funnelled through the same section of map, it doesn’t matter if there’s an upper pipe to go over, the mounted gun covers the entire section, give him a medic and its painful.
But at the same time if the attackers are the stronger team, they rush forward spawn and make your life hell. Jumping out of tiny windows (if you can that is, a rhino really doesn’t fit) means you’re the easiest kill of all. Or coming around the upper level means their sniper sitting over near the minigun has better cover and a great LOS. But now you have to also defuse the C4 a position which getting to is a nightmare because you will be facing a ton of camping defenders that you cant attack until you’re down there. >.<
It feels like fixes should be easy, make it so that mounted MG can’t see the entire first section once defenders get out of their spawns. Let them run through the building on their left and then rush across the pipes giving the MG user less time to react. Also make the side exist from that spawn more obvious, almost no-one uses the gas tunnel at round start and rarely do people go left until they’re getting spawn killed.

Underground

Here if the attackers get on top of the control room, there’s a lovely spot (left side looking through yellow pipes) that allows people to deal tons of damage while being almost impossible to see before hand and extremely hard to hit, this game isn’t supposed to be about camping but it sure does a good job of letting people do it.
At the same time you actively avoid making camping the capping room an easy thing to do by forcing players into the open and not behind cover?!
I question the use of C4 on side objectives, it takes forever, can be defused extremely quickly and a Molotov will do the job 10x faster with 0 risk. At least when they instantly repair it with an engi after a Molotov you don’t sigh as much as after 40s of c4 defending.
So why does C4 take so long? So the opposite team has the time to re-take the position and disarm. 20s for retake, 15s for defuse (with default) 5s spare. Id love a reason to use C4 over a molotov or just outright shooting them, more health maybe.

Spawn camping

Brink did something cool with spawn campers, it screwed them over. Sentries in spawns made it so spawn killing was less common, or if it did happen, it was far out of the base giving players a chance to fight back. Why doesn’t DB employ this tactic anywhere? Surely the primary attacking spawns and the last defending spawns should have something!

Movement

Maybe this fits individually into maps, maybe it doesn’t. When I played Brink, I adored the movement, extremely rewarding system if you learnt it. Dirty Bomb however, eh, it’s a bit of a mess. There’s two features, wall jump and long jump. Combine a long jump with a walljump, or two and that’s a nice evolution of movement. However it doesnt get much more exciting than that, for some reason.
Even doing those walljumps which are ultimately the core of the movement is annoying at times. Simple wall jumps into windows can go horribly wrong if you mess up and without speed attempting jumps again is fruitless. There is an annoying lack of control at the players disposal, I would really like to see the movement have a bit of air control behind it, not just a obscure value depending on if you press A, D or nothing.
Jumps require a few things to get right, speed and height. No speed and some are impossible, no crouch at the end you cant reach higher spots, this makes some jumps I remember being easier (when multiple wall dodges were a thing and you could climb corners) have become very infuriating to do unless you meet all the requirements and don’t clip a corner or something (looking at you chapel jumping up the back of the construction site onto balcony)
The boost long jump is a fun mechanic, but at times I wonder if there needs to be such a slowdown after it? It makes me wonder if a lot of the time it’s worth the extra distance if I become an easier target. There aren’t a whole lot of places to combine it with wall jumps for use other than travelling between spawn and objective. Why have these mechanics if people don’t have a reason to utilize them!


(Cr4zy) #4

Menus and downtime

By downtime, I mean between games, not server downtime. Every game of DB starts by finding a server, simple enough, it’s a closed beta I wont complain about how readily available servers are, it’s a mute point.
However once In a server I have the long choice of deciding which merc to go with, actually at this point I stick to 3 and I do everything with them. Regardless of that fact, merc selection is a pain. Click a merc and get shown some portraits. This is useless guys, I cant see what these people do, is he an engi, or a medic? Did he throw sticky bombs or kittens? If you want to limit the selection to a few pictures don’t expect everyone to remember everything, actually no, don’t expect new players to know a damned thing.
Put their traits on these profiles, I know you have a merc thing on your main menu, I can’t remember that once I am in-game, and I cant use it either. Show me is this person fast or slow, are they high on health or not? Do they have the much sort after repair tool or just a crappy pair of pliers! Is this a medic or ammo person, can they drop airstrikes or mines?!

To the card select screen!
REMOVE DUPLICATES OMG
Now there are perks/augments here, look at their pretty icons and hover over them to see their wonderful names. Wait, what do they do, springy? Can he jump higher? Can he triple jump? Oh neither, because this perk does nothing, damn it. A name is of no use to a new person, how can you compare with out information.
Ok now I selected my 3 mercs as I want. Which one is my default? Ah always number 1! NONONO, I don’t want proxy, I need to defend let me pick stoker or phoenix if we have no medics. Let me Select right here before loadout sync which merc I start with. Drag and drop to re-arrange them?
Yes I know I can switch in-game, but thats the fun bit lets load the map “press any key to continue”. Ok whoever did this, please, undo this, this is 100% useless. It serves no purpose at all that I can logically think of. I wouldn’t have loaded the map if I did not intend to continue. Its another time waster.
Into the map now anddddd back onto a menu screen, why do I have to deploy, I can hear the cinematic into but I cant watch it, which also means I can’t pick my primary merc again.
Spawn, as the wrong merc, die, INSTANTLY RESPAWN, damn it couldn’t switch my merc. Is there actually a way to set next merc to spawn as other than death screen? If so, please make it so F1/2/3 select merc for next spawn before death so idiot space spamming me won’t mess up.

Now about the downtime. There’s so much of it, load a map wait for game start. Finish a map wait for lobby, in lobby wait for players, wait for loadout sync, wait for map load, wait for game start… Please, cut these times down somewhere, I just want to play play play! Do it similar to TF2 have the “loadout” screen there for everyone but don’t force people to sit on it, then throw them into the warmup period to mess around, its much more fun than waiting.

Other things

Augments/perks, WTF? Did I miss something are there purely here currently as place holders? 0% reduction to fall damage??? Triple jump??? Is there a point in these things? Not as far as I can see. Please if you have perks can we make perks do something, otherwise why do they even exist, considering most seem to really do nothing noticeable and the ones that should don’t work anyway.

What is up with sniper zoom sensitivity exactly? Why is it 5x lower than normal or ADS sens? I play very low sensitivity (60cm~ 360) I can do single movement 180 turns on my mousemat, I can’t do single turn 360 turns on my mousemat. This has worked fine for me for a long time. Until I try and snipe in DB, because it takes me 5 swipes across my mousemat to do a 180 as a sniper zoomed in. I can’t hit a damn thing because this low of a sens is absurd, seriously that’s a 3meter 360 turn when zoomed in! Why is there no option to configure zoom sensitivity?! PLEASE :frowning:

There are so many tiny annoyances like the things listed above that annoy me more and more every time I play it. After mentioning a few things on servers I know there are others who feel the same way, not everyone sure, gl pleasing the world, but these minor annoyances are what stopped people playing brink, stupid little things, that then were not fixed fast enough and the game died faster than anything else I’ve played. Maybe for you that’s not too bad you made money, but this is F2P how are you going to keep making money if a month after release everyone has given up already.

I hope that HUD config creator that existed before comes back, maybe in official capacity? Would love an easy HUD customizer. Some more crosshair options wouldn’t be missed either.

Bugs?!

Yes BETA is BETA, is BETA. Will one day be a released game.

Maybe we should talk about the bugs and issues too, even though (I hope) you are more than aware of them. 6 months ago, this game worked pretty damn well for me, on a lower spec system at that (4770k/680 back then) today I play everything as low as I possibly can, because for some reason the FPS is unstable as hell for me and I want the most I can possibly get. So now my new system (5960x/sli 980) plays ~110-120fps(gysnc) most of the time but plummets to horrible unplayable 0fps freezes, its a damn nightmare to play because they’re random as hell and I have no idea how to fix it.

But what about all the other bugs, these things never existed 6 months ago and they’ve destroyed the playing experience many times over. Especially when you get every single one in a game!
Spawning with no primary, secondary or both weapons.
Spawning without anything and controls being world direction based rather than player direction
Spawning and unable to switch weapons without shooting first
Spawning and not being able to do damage or interact
Throwing grenades or mines and having them not work so you have to do it again
Dropping a mine on an objective and instantly dying to a “explosion” according to killfeed but the mien hasn’t detonated
Being shot, killed and knifed by invisible people (this is great fun)
Seeing what I presume are placeholder character models running around in place of actual models, seriously bright blue people killing me made me go wtf more than once, especially when they aren’t on scoreboards either?! (seriously wtf is this puu.sh/ezJ6v/4974760b23.jpg)
These are the common bugs I’ve come across, Im sure you have way more to fix because there always are, but most of these were happening to everyone.


(Cr4zy) #5

So.

I don’t want DB to fall on its face and fail, you don’t either (I damn well hope) I want to enjoy this game and play it a lot. You make that hard, questionable changes over the life of the closed BETA and ignoring things that Brink didn’t do greatly on. I understand game development, I’ve done it both as a hobby and professionally, I know things change drastically over a project, but you seem to have changed you mind so many times on things in this going back and forth of things. Some stuff still feels wrong though.
Players that come from COD, BF, don’t just do teamwork magically but theres nothing to tell them or hint at them. Players that come from Unreal, Quake expect a smooth movement system that works in their favour, not one they have to fight. Brink and ETQW players clearly love what you make and want to enjoy what brought them to those games, but if the same things that caused Brinks decline exist here, why stay?
I think, Dirty Bomb oozes potential, it has the base of a game that could be wonderful. It could have a ton of players and it could actually be good fun on public. The movement needs to work with the levels, the game needs to work with the team. It lacks harmony of its elements some things just need to be cleaned up and reassembled.
I wanted to love Brink, no I did, I played it exhaustingly after release. I want to love Dirty Bomb, I will play it again, will it have the things that drove me from Brink though, I hope not.

TL:DR

There isn’t one.

Have an Internet cookie, if you read that all.


(Nail) #6

Bethesda was the cause of Brink’s problems, they gone


(The99thProblem) #7


(sleeepy) #8

A lot of your complains about teamwork go away when you play organized matches. When this game has ranked matchmaking and MMR to win/lose you can bet players at all levels will be trying a lot harder to win. Look at CS:GO, you can hop into a casual 10v10 server and see people just knifing, camping with shotguns, running around with Negev, etc. Then queue up for ranked and all that goes away even at low levels.

Most of your balance observations are off in my opinion. I’m curious about what others think; there doesn’t seem to be a lot of consensus right now in terms of balance discussion.

Shotguns are in a good place right now. Half the people seem to think they’re too strong, the other half think they’re too weak, so that says to me they’re more or less fine.

Nader’s GL got the nerf it needed. The only other think I would suggest is to make the fuse longer so you have more time to get away and promote people aiming for directs.

Heal stations are strong as they should be. A lot of classes have ways to deal with them easily. The only annoying thing is Auras with SMGs that can self-heal and kill from far away. I feel like this sort of breaks Aura and allows her to camp in the heals and deal damage where if you have a shotgun it’s either one or the other, unless you drop it at close range.

Rhino doesn’t need any nerfs as he’s already one of the most useless mercs in the game.

Redeye is a very good pub stomper, maybe the best because of how much damage he can deal without putting himself in danger. I feel that he will get nerfed hard but I don’t think he’s that overpowered. Give him -10 HP and a slight reduction to rate of fire and he should be fine.

Molotovs are way too strong against the EV. Stoker is honestly a better anti-EV character than Skyhammer, and I feel it should be the opposite. The bugs where the molotov does nothing or keeps burning after the visuals go away are annoying. The worst part is that you can’t tell between friendly and enemy molotovs so you either risk taking damage or just sit waiting for it to end.

Flashbangs only stop your movement if you are right on top of it when it goes off. Honestly I can’t believe an experienced player thinks Flashbangs are OP but says nothing about Fragger’s grenades. Flashbangs are a joke in this game anyways as you can still see health bars when flashed so it’s really easy to kill people when flashed. Meanwhile Fragger can easily kill multiple people with 1 grenade (that’s harder to avoid than a Nader grenade) and gib them on top of that.

Bushwacker seems weak but buffing his turret isn’t the way to go. It used to deal a lot more damage and it was probably the most annoying thing in the game. Give him a bit more HP and he’ll fit his role as a straight-forward combat engineer.

Sawbonez is fine.

The default tool is supposed to suck, otherwise engineers wouldn’t have a purpose in the game. Repairing/defusing with multiple people could work but they’d have to do a lot of testing as it might break the game flow and make some objectives too easy/hard. At this point I’d say it’s not worth testing, just leave it as it is.

Honestly the game balance is pretty good. Fragger needs a nerf (1 grenade max, no gibbing), Fletcher needs a buff(+10HP, more responsive stickies), everything else is more or less ok.

I agree that maps all need some work. However, a lot of what you mentioned will also be solved by 5v5 and even teams (ranked matchmaking).

The last part I 100% agree. The card system is confusing right now, you can’t read what augments do from the lobby, waiting between matches takes too long, bugs are annoying, etc. I think with this we just have to wait and see.


(irishrOy) #9

Noone revives anyone… Everytime I’m downed I ask someone to help me up, and it only happened 5-6x in total. (Medics are “reviving-reviving”, yes. But noone is helping you up when you’re down)
The rest were just standing next to me, being busy being dumb.


(Szakalot) #10

Teamwork issues are mostly related to the CBT character, it will get solved on release in pubs, and matchmaking will make it a moot anyways.

Great points on Menus and Downtime. Esp. downtimes are freaking annoying. I think the 'deploy’menu after you load the map depends on whether you have ‘locked in’ before map load, but its super unclear and unintuitive.

Its clear SD wants to find a middle between minimizing wait-time between games and allowing people to play with their new crates/weapons/mercs.

The only feasible system I can think of is to let players adjust mercs a few minutes into the map. You went AFK for 2min between map loading, you can always go back to limbo and change your setup.

Naturally this would apply to pubs only.


(Cr4zy) #11

Damn I completely forgot about the grenade fragger has. Yes the thing is in need of a nerf, one hit kills on full HP suck for the guy that dies, especially when you aren’t a weaker class. Should have a considerable damage fall off reduction applied to it.

Im sure competitive will alleiviate many issues, but just like CS, there are still going to be new clueless players try it and any steps taken to make the newest of new players who have never played a game like it understand it faster is never going to be a bad thing.

I really like the way most guns feel in DB, but shotguns to me really do feel a little extreme, their range is maybe the primary issue and fall off should be addressed all those classes are generally designed for close range combat anyway.

The nades on nader could sure do with longer fusetime, that would certainly fix most of the problem and reward for direct hits.
Rhino, he is under utilized because he onyl has one roll and he relies heavily on medics to make sure he can do that job, If you play a rhino with a medic buddy you destroy everything, again, needs the teamwork.
RedEye is not exactly a hard opponent to kill, if you can see him. He is just way too reliant on being hidden and getting the first hit, drop his IR vision time to less than smoke, meaning he can’t always sit in it would be a nice start and as a sniper he should have damage, but the fire rate is silly.
About friendly and enemy molotovs, I feel it would just be more intuitive for all molotovs to do damage regardless of team, people shouldn’t question if this fire is safe or not xD
Bushwhackers turret suffers 3 problems, its damage, its health and it’s range. Either it needs to take more than a few bullets before it dies, do more damage per shot, or lock on further/faster to do damage before it takes any. The problem with these is if done wrong it makes whoever gets shot feel like they don’t have a fair fight, especially in the fast paced nature of DB.
Sawbonez to me is the weakest medic, by far. I will never pick him if I have phoenix or aura available.
I agree that the default tool has to be worse, but how much worse is necessary? It’s 3-4x slower than an engi right now, I am glad engis can take over and do it faster if they will complete first. But 3-4x means a pub game where people dont run engis means you cant defuse c4 without 15 interrupted seconds of defuse time (roughly)

I agree lots of things will be solved through 5v5, that doesn’t mean things should not be looked into or addressed for the majority of players that will play casually.

Thanks for taking the time to read that, though.

[quote=“amiableLayer;2987”]Noone revives anyone… Everytime I’m downed I ask someone to help me up, and it only happened 5-6x in total. (Medics are “reviving-reviving”, yes. But noone is helping you up when you’re down)
The rest were just standing next to me, being busy being dumb.[/quote]

Most of the time honestly, there are more important things to do than spend the time it takes to revive without being a medic, in my opinion. Its a very situational thing and to me very dependant on who and where that player is.

[quote=“Szakalot;2994”]Great points on Menus and Downtime. Esp. downtimes are freaking annoying. I think the 'deploy’menu after you load the map depends on whether you have ‘locked in’ before map load, but its super unclear and unintuitive.

Its clear SD wants to find a middle between minimizing wait-time between games and allowing people to play with their new crates/weapons/mercs.

The only feasible system I can think of is to let players adjust mercs a few minutes into the map. You went AFK for 2min between map loading, you can always go back to limbo and change your setup.

Naturally this would apply to pubs only.
[/quote]

They’ve improved it a bit from what I remember, still not as fluid as it should be, like you say it should be possible to change mercs in map. Maybe make the first spawn have a free merc switch regardless, don’t give the player a 20s respawn for start of game suicide. They’ll already be behind if they switch merc anyway. Or give a grace period on every spawn, if the player doesn’t move/still invulnerable allow them to switch merc? I see no harm in that, unless people are spawn campign and you switch to rhino, but spawn campers don’t deserve to live :stuck_out_tongue:
If locking in is what causes it, then why does it have a countdown to force lock in anyway?! This system is so confusing!


(Szakalot) #12

If it didn’t have forced lock-in, there would always be a few clueless dudes who forgot to press it, and 3-4min wait times.

What I’m most confused about is: why not make the pre-game lobby after everyone has loaded the map? You pick the next map right after the previous match finished, let everyone load the freaking game and select mercs right before the game starts.

The problem now is that you have a pre-game lobby, map loading, pre-deploy lobby. Add a nice 1-2min staring at XP badges at the end of the round, and it feels like you have 5-10 downtime between each game.


(sleeepy) #13

Rhinio: I get what you’re saying but in most situations you’re better off with a Fragger anyways. I don’t see a need to nerf him.

Redeye: Yeah that’s a good change. It really is too easy having the goggles last as long as the smoke. Abilities should be about optimal use, timing, etc but at this point even a 3-year-old could play Redeye.

Bushwacker: Buffing turret HP would be ok, as long as they don’t bring damage back to the level it was before. This isn’t TF2: the turret is a distraction not your main source of damage.

Sawbonez: The thing about Sawbonez is that he’s the most versatile medic. He can throw his packs to people where other medics would have to run to them. He can lay down more heals than Phoenix and in more places than Aura. Plus he’s got the most HP and a decent gun. I’m not sure about pubs but in pugs it seems like Sawbonez was the medic of choice in most situations.

The engineer tool problem is just a pub problem for now where no one cares about team composition. In an organized game people will pick engineers because they want to win. There’s no point in gimping engineers because they’re unpopular in a pub setting, that’s just not smart. If anything engineers need to be stronger (maybe have them deliver carryable objectives faster?).


(Tomme) #14

You seem a bit all over the place, you talk about the lack “team based” actions yet want to dilute the classes making the element of teamplay even weaker.


(Cr4zy) #15

Most of the class abilities I brought up are not because they are teambased, they make thsoe individual classes very strong alone (except rhino). A class that solo kills an EV? A class that sits alone in his own smoke?
I don’t understand where you get that idea?


(ToonBE) #16

Most of the class abilities I brought up are not because they are teambased, they make thsoe individual classes very strong alone (except rhino). A class that solo kills an EV? A class that sits alone in his own smoke?
I don’t understand where you get that idea?[/quote]

I read the most of this wall of text and I could not get myself to agree with you… Public is public… Who cares if there is someone not doing the objective? It is just a bunch of people having fun… Try to do it by yourself.

“a class that solo kills EV, a class that sits alone in his smoke” dude… That is the whole point! We don’t want generic characters… We want them to have special abilities limited to them so they have a meaning bringing them to the battlefield in a match (the moba feel).

The only thing this game needs to work on is level design, create new levels, game mechanics, balance and overall UI overhall…


(Cr4zy) #17

‘Public is public’ isn’t an excuse for balance or game design issues. I can play other games that require teamwork on public without too many problems.

Without a public scene you won’t have a competitive scene that lasts very long. If most people come into this game on release and go “oh same stuff as brink all over again no thx” because people will do that. Lots of players will probably just write it off without really trying it.


(donkz) #18

I haven’t played too many games yet, but this post seems spot on. There are quite a few classes… no clear emphasis on who should be leading the battle, who should be healing, who should be concentrating on objective. At first all you see is KDR, and the game is just whispering “just go shoot some shit”. Everyone has more than enough ammo to survive on their own AND each class seems to be fully sufficient to go in battle single handed AND perform well.

Remove KDR from the main scoring display.
Support objective completion with higher scoring
Reduce ammo for medics, make their weapons less advantageous
Reduce health for ammo providers.
Disable insta-gib with knife or make it harder, so that medics are more useful


(Grave_Knight) #19

I do wish the movement system was better. Very least less frustrating. Why is there no short wall run and ledge climbing? Add some hang time while on walls so you can do certain jumps easier.