Did everyone really think Fletcher needed that radial dmg nerf to his stickies?

[BloodySin]

@Szakalot said:
Also, why completely destroy Fletcher’s playstyle?
Because his current playstyle isn’t of a Specialist, but a “better Nader, faster Fragger” - that’s called correcting, not destroying.

[bgyoshi]

It’s been said a million billion times that Fragger isn’t a trap merc and can’t rely on placing and paying attention to sticky traps. He’s an engineer so he needs to be able to assault as much as he can defend.

He needed a nerf and I wasn’t expecting a radial damage nerf. I personally would’ve just increased his sticky cooldown up to 12 or 15 seconds per sticky so that you use them sparingly or risk being stuck without them. They should compliment his guns, not replace them like they did. The nerf seems to have helped a little bit but further nerfing is required to really settle him down in the engineer slot.

Why do all other engineers seem to have a downside when he has none? He has launchable explosives, more HP, engineer arm/disarm speed, and a blshlok. Everyone else is stuck in some way; proxy mines have to stay in place, turtle has a shield, bushy has no explosives. Nicely balanced.

I still say up the cooldown on stickies. They need to be thrown with care, not available in every firefight.

[Szakalot]

@BloodySin said:

@Szakalot said:
Also, why completely destroy Fletcher’s playstyle?
Because his current playstyle isn’t of a Specialist, but a “better Nader, faster Fragger” - that’s called correcting, not destroying.

wtf your talking about, better than nader? faster than fragger? yes cause 75damage is the same as a 160damage nuke that can be thrown with extreme precision.

[ToffaPlus]

What if he had a charge mechanic like with sparks but for sticky throw distance?

[JonBongNoJovi]

Its how he jump spams the stickies that get me , he bounces around more than Zebedee

[pumpkinmeerkat]

100% needed a nerf and he’s still the best engineer by far when shield isn’t needed so…

AOE range could be reduced further keeping the same damage numbers. Detonator and bomb should be same ability with mouse 1 and 2 for throw and detonate.

[Enema_Bandit]

The problem with Fletcher is that he is an engineer, although he obviously hasn’t got the education.
Absolutely disgraceful.

[OwynTyler]

@kittz0r said:
wtf your talking about, better than nader? faster than fragger? yes cause 75damage is the same as a 160damage nuke that can be thrown with extreme precision.

Yes, it freaking is the same, doesn’t matter 80 dmg it is or 9999 if it kills from one shot anyways, no more dmg is needed after enemy is already dead

[Enema_Bandit]

@OwynTyler said:

@kittz0r said:
wtf your talking about, better than nader? faster than fragger? yes cause 75damage is the same as a 160damage nuke that can be thrown with extreme precision.

Yes, it freaking is the same, doesn’t matter 80 dmg it is or 9999 if it kills from one shot anyways, no more dmg is needed after enemy is already dead

It matters, cause of gibs, medics, you know, DB stuff.
If you’re not gibbed (which requires a certain amount of additional damage), Satan could revive you with her REVIVR to full health from the other end of the map, even when I’m shooting your ‘‘corpse’’ in the head.

[kittz0r]

@OwynTyler said:

@kittz0r said:
wtf your talking about, better than nader? faster than fragger? yes cause 75damage is the same as a 160damage nuke that can be thrown with extreme precision.

Yes, it freaking is the same, doesn’t matter 80 dmg it is or 9999 if it kills from one shot anyways, no more dmg is needed after enemy is already dead

öhm, where do you get this Quote of me? i can’t find it in my Comments i did…

Edit: NVM you meant @Szakalot … S and K are nearly the Same…

[MarsRover]

At this point I would rather see another buff Bushwhacker instead of a nerf to Fletcher. I wish we didn’t have three 110HP engineers. What if Bush got changed to 120HP, and Fletcher (if he is still OP) to 100HP, with appropriate speed corrections.

[Szakalot]

@MarsRover said:
At this point I would rather see another buff Bushwhacker instead of a nerf to Fletcher. I wish we didn’t have three 110HP engineers. What if Bush got changed to 120HP, and Fletcher (if he is still OP) to 100HP, with appropriate speed corrections.

I think Bush at 120hp is a very interesting start. 10hp is actually quite a lot. I’d like to wait a bit before nerfing Fletcher more, especially since we haven’t seen turtle in Ranked yet, and he could potentially be crazy powerful.

[bgyoshi]

@Szakalot said:

I think Bush at 120hp is a very interesting start. 10hp is actually quite a lot. I’d like to wait a bit before nerfing Fletcher more, especially since we haven’t seen turtle in Ranked yet, and he could potentially be crazy powerful.

I have a feeling Turtle will be underwhelming in Ranked, since 5v5 tends to rely on grouping together. In pubs with 6v6 or 7v7, people have to spread out a lot more to cover all areas of the map, so it’s easier to slip in and dunk your shield down in front of 2 or 3 players and run them off by firing from behind.

But have you tried dropping your shield in front of 5 people? It gets focused down immediately, and if you try to body block it you die in a half second. Even if you manage to get the shield up, it’s downed within a second or two.

Considering the limited team size too, I don’t think Turtle can effectively replace Fletcher in the engi slot. In the killable shield vs deadly nade spam category, I’m pretty sure Fletcher’s killing power will win out every time, especially since AoE damage is so much more important when fighting a death ball.

[Szakalot]

@bgyoshi said:

@Szakalot said:

I think Bush at 120hp is a very interesting start. 10hp is actually quite a lot. I’d like to wait a bit before nerfing Fletcher more, especially since we haven’t seen turtle in Ranked yet, and he could potentially be crazy powerful.

I have a feeling Turtle will be underwhelming in Ranked, since 5v5 tends to rely on grouping together. In pubs with 6v6 or 7v7, people have to spread out a lot more to cover all areas of the map, so it’s easier to slip in and dunk your shield down in front of 2 or 3 players and run them off by firing from behind.

But have you tried dropping your shield in front of 5 people? It gets focused down immediately, and if you try to body block it you die in a half second. Even if you manage to get the shield up, it’s downed within a second or two.

Considering the limited team size too, I don’t think Turtle can effectively replace Fletcher in the engi slot. In the killable shield vs deadly nade spam category, I’m pretty sure Fletcher’s killing power will win out every time, especially since AoE damage is so much more important when fighting a death ball.

guess we will have to see, but it could very well be the opposite. 500hp shield with 1-2 less players to shoot at. Consider also that in ranked collision is on, making it MUCH harder to push a single choke with a team of 5, especially against spam, and especially against people behind a shield. In my experience people move a bit more cohesively in ranked, but hardly ever as an organized group of 5.

I don’t think smart shield will rely on facing the enemy head on, but rather reinforce a defensive position allowing 1-2 people to hide behind it after the enemy has already committed to the push, and exposed to the crossfire. And while it is definitely easier to focus down a shield in ranked, its also a lot easier to take advantage of it, with smart placement and people actually using it properly to hold a choke, lay down effective crossfire.

Consider also how incredibly powerful an aura bunker can be atm. A single aura is often sufficient to reinforce the entire defense, and the attacker’s have little choice but to find a way to get the station down first. This might be very very hard to do if the station is additionally positioned behind a well placed shield. We might even start seeing phantoms in ranked, lol.

Likely on offense the shield is too slow to use properly, on the other hand putting a smart shield to protect C4 from just far enough to cover but too far to flank can also be very effective. I’d expect people stick to fletcher on offense though.

[Enema_Bandit]

@MarsRover said:
At this point I would rather see another buff Bushwhacker instead of a nerf to Fletcher. I wish we didn’t have three 110HP engineers. What if Bush got changed to 120HP, and Fletcher (if he is still OP) to 100HP, with appropriate speed corrections.

2/3 of Fletcher’s weapons are shotguns. His speed is fine.

@Szakalot said:
I think Bush at 120hp is a very interesting start. 10hp is actually quite a lot. I’d like to wait a bit before nerfing Fletcher more, especially since we haven’t seen turtle in Ranked yet, and he could potentially be crazy powerful.

I watched the last DBNation cup and there were more than a few deciding shield plays. With the proper tactic, Turtle could be very, very strong.

I don’t know about Bush at 120hp. Maybe add 10 more hp to his turret or/and make the default reaction time faster. 120hp with a KEK10 seems a bit too much for an engie.

[GatoCommodore]

@Enema_Bandit said:

@MarsRover said:
At this point I would rather see another buff Bushwhacker instead of a nerf to Fletcher. I wish we didn’t have three 110HP engineers. What if Bush got changed to 120HP, and Fletcher (if he is still OP) to 100HP, with appropriate speed corrections.

2/3 of Fletcher’s weapons are shotguns. His speed is fine.

@Szakalot said:
I think Bush at 120hp is a very interesting start. 10hp is actually quite a lot. I’d like to wait a bit before nerfing Fletcher more, especially since we haven’t seen turtle in Ranked yet, and he could potentially be crazy powerful.

I watched the last DBNation cup and there were more than a few deciding shield plays. With the proper tactic, Turtle could be very, very strong.

I don’t know about Bush at 120hp. Maybe add 10 more hp to his turret or/and make the default reaction time faster. 120hp with a KEK10 seems a bit too much for an engie.

fletcher and bush share the same HP but fletcher is better on nearly everything

[Szakalot]

@Enema_Bandit thats the whole point: it is too much, therefore making the decision between fletcher/turtle/bush a difficult one. its easy to imagine bush suddenly becoming viable on open maps where fletcher is suboptimal like chapel ev repair.
the more comp-viable mercs the better. Bush has the weakest ability of the 3 - give him sth to compensate.Proxy can stay in pubs, not even a 3rd mine would save her

[SaulWolfden]

@Enema_Bandit said:

@MarsRover said:
At this point I would rather see another buff Bushwhacker instead of a nerf to Fletcher. I wish we didn’t have three 110HP engineers. What if Bush got changed to 120HP, and Fletcher (if he is still OP) to 100HP, with appropriate speed corrections.

2/3 of Fletcher’s weapons are shotguns. His speed is fine.

@Szakalot said:
I think Bush at 120hp is a very interesting start. 10hp is actually quite a lot. I’d like to wait a bit before nerfing Fletcher more, especially since we haven’t seen turtle in Ranked yet, and he could potentially be crazy powerful.

I watched the last DBNation cup and there were more than a few deciding shield plays. With the proper tactic, Turtle could be very, very strong.

I don’t know about Bush at 120hp. Maybe add 10 more hp to his turret or/and make the default reaction time faster. 120hp with a KEK10 seems a bit too much for an engie.

Actually since Fletcher moves faster than Bushwhacker and Turtle, his HP really should be lower. 110 HP makes it illogical to pick any engineer but him if Turtle isn’t needed. Turtle is his only competition at the moment. Proxy is hard to figure out a buff to, but Bushwhacker needs at bare minimum, turret set up improvements (like sliding it).

[Enema_Bandit]

Or make Bush’s turret stick to walls. That would be cool.
Something like Soldier’s turret in Borderlands 2.

[JonBongNoJovi]

Raise the reaction speed and fire rate of his turret , lower the damage per bullet to balance overall damage done , make it so the turret is a harassment to the enemy , nothing worse than hearing the whirring of the spin up as its peaked from some impossible angle.