Develop the EV Objectives

(Samurai.) #1

This thread is about developing the EV objectives to make it so more player interaction with the objective is happening more often encouraging smoother map flow rather than travel for short time then large stops for 5 minutes at each barricade which is currently happening on maps like London Bridge. It is also to allow lower player numbers on servers to still be able to pick whichever class they want while having some input into preventing the EV from traveling.

TLDR: Essentially my idea is to implement more ways for players to disable the EV, while maintaining balance for attackers and removing the predictable, repetitive stages maps like London bridge go through.

The Issue

The EV objectives play a particularly large part of some maps like London Bridge and they are fairly boring to participate in for both sides (but especially Defence). The barricades provide a predictable environment in which every time you play the map you know the EV will stop at these set locations in which a defence will be formed. Removal of the barricades and addition of more damage/repairing of the EV anywhere along the path means a more dynamic/unique experience each time you play the map offsetting boredom quickly from repetition.

General Suggestions

  • Implement Rocket Launcher for Soldier (Set amount of direct damage to the EV).
  • Implement Anti-EV turrets for Engineers
  • Implement the EMP Grenade for Recon (temporarily disable the EV for X Seconds).
  • Remove the constructable barricades
  • Alter the way EV becomes disabled
  • Allow the EV to be repaired at all times (moving/static or disabled/near full HP).

We know there is a rocket launcher being developed for soldier, and the EMP grenade via the milestone video’s which should add 2 more options for damaging the EV. But to basically keep it so all classes have a role other than the medic (core backbone class) I feel the engineer should be able to construct some form of Anti E.V turret.

How an Anti EV Turret could work

  • Given to the “T-Rat” character that already has an APT. When choosing to deploy he would be able to choose one or the other depending on the need at that time.
  • Would be bigger model than APT to allow attackers to disable from distance easier via grenades, bullets, airstrikes, RL etc…
  • Disables the EV via slow firing auto lock on rockets, damage could be altered in line with rate of fire depending on how this plays out in game.
  • Only fires at the EV when it is actively moving - once disabled, stops firing.
  • Does not target enemy infantry, but may cause indirect splash damage

Balancing …
All classes except the medic would have a direct input to damaging the EV in a lethal way for defenders; therefore it needs to be balanced out.

  • Increase the health of the EV, but keep the “disabled” point about ¾’s of the health bar. Meaning at ¾’s of the EV’s health it is disabled (stops moving) but still has room to take more damage till at 0.
  • Allow attackers to repair the EV at all times, right now when the EV is not disabled but still moving (at half health for example) we cannot repair it, this should be changed, so repairing can occur even while the EV is moving/taking damage.
  • Potentially introduce a negative stacking effect for anti EV Turrets – the more deployed on defence the slower the ROF/or lower damage per rocket?

2 Variables to play with once implemented to ensure a good balance between attackers and defenders.

  • Alter the speed of the EV in line with all the other features.
  • Alter repair time of EV in line with all the other features.

So what are your thoughts / any further suggestions to add / critique?

(tokamak) #2

I feel that this is merely a matter of time. It takes a lot of resources to develop new weaponry.

I’m a bit uncomfortable about relying on weapons for a sole objective though. I don´t think there should be such a thing as an ´anti-EV’ character. The advantage that this class would bring to the objective would be so huge that the outcome would simply be decided by the availability of anti-EV classes. That’s really frustrating.

I rather see the effect the weapons of classes (INCLUDING the fire support) can have on the EV reduced to a minimum. Everything should be about as effective as throwing grenades.

So rather than an anti-EV character you get an anti-EV class (engineer should be THE objective class anyway) and he does the job regardless of the loadouts. All the rest of the team can do is aid a bit with grenades and explosives that just have a marginal effect on it.

Then, the engineer class can ‘deconstruct’ (sabotage), bring down the hp of the EV by working on it with his pliers. This greatly reduces the reliance on having certain characters around and it makes the EV more of a moving focal point of combat rather than that thing you need to switch to a special class to in order to deal with it simply because that class happens to have the right kind of weapons for it.

(INF3RN0) #3

I’d like to see every class have some effect on disabling the EV, and yes removal of most of the barricades would be a nice change. The EV basically rolls forward until you battle over a barricade for 5mins. If it was more about disabling the EV as often as possible and holding it in place then I think it might not take 19mins to complete LB.

As far as weaponry to disable the EV, I’d rather see existing tools and weapons remain usable for all situations. Purely anti-EV weapons/classes is a nono for me.Instead stuff like this maybe:

-Normal turret also has an EV rocket
-Mines do damage
-Weapons do damage (more for soldier perhaps)
-Grenades do damage
-Medic paddles do damage
-Knifing the EV does damage

The list goes on, but basically every class has the ability to output damage on the EV; though some weapons/etc could definitely have greater damage potential like a rocket launcher. In most cases those high damage weapons have less DPS regardless so it would make sense.

(rand0m) #4

The anti EV class should be the soldier. Give him the rocket launcher, grenade launcher and make him the guy who does the damage. Give engies back their dynamite.

(Ashog) #5

Removing barricades? But that’s the one of the core features!? So the soldier would only explode a gate on waterloo and a gun on Camden? Meeeh.

The current EV allows for it to be killed with bullet shots now. If everyone was stuffing EV with a clip or two to disable it, the EV wouldn’t travel so long all the time. But silly players prefer to save ammo for ramboing, they don;t understand that disabling EV now (with bullets, grenades) would perhaps be a drop that wins them the map because it would win the defense the crucial several seconds to timelimit.

Also being able to repair EV at all times is logical and fair, but it will be bad because then damaging EV will be too consuming each time.

The only issue I have with EV is its stickyness. It is really terrible and needs to be fixed.

(MrFunkyFunk) #6

The issue I have now is that you only get a few opportunities to down the EV every few dozens meters or so.
If the def manages to deplete its hp and the attack gets to repair it asap, they can be serene that it will make a considerable distance before its downed again.
Give the attack the opportunity to have a real control over a faster EV (related to the n° of attackers in its surroundings) and its hps at all time and a faster repair time (and making it possible to still use the MG even when the EV is downed?), and for the def the ability to put constant pressure on the damn cooker by doing more than just cutting the supply line.

No barricades? Why not, I think it would make it less frustrating for both teams in pub and speed the map time a bit.

It would be more dynamic and feel less like pushing your cart down a supermarket aisle a crowded saturday morning if some of the points here made it to the game.

(tokamak) #7

Problem is that only certain characters do that. That blows.

(ImageOmega) #8

I like the idea of having more ways or abilities to damage the EV. This has been an idea that has been lobbied for for quite some time. Way before the grenade launcher or rocket launcher reveal. I definitely think being able to down the EV via multiple opportunities and classes (besides a standard grenade) is a must. I believe that with introducing such extra firepower you would also need to buff the EV’s health or armor. Or perhaps introduce being able to repair the EV before it is actually disabled.

I think getting rid of the barricades is a mistake. Having the barricades provides high points in the map flow and points of contention. You take away the barricades and you take away intuitive points to control, attack, and defend. This is something that is sorely missing from DB maps already. There do not seem to be enough points of the map that require control, simply objectives you should be preventing the team from completing by fighting anywhere you want. The most simplistic simile is controlling items or power ups in a game like Quake or UT. You don’t just fight to stop people from getting it you literally must control the area to get the items to gain a significant advantage. I think this is something like what forward flags would offer, but I digress.

Also, I would like to see a faster EV. If not simply a base speed increase, then at least a speed increase based on teammates being near it. I think this alone would provide more dynamics to the map since you would want to fight around the moving refrigerator instead of off pushing only towards the next barricade. Something that would be very important in a stopwatch, competitive environment. The buff in speed would have to be very meaningful, not just slightly faster.

(Kendle) #9

^ agree with Image

Barricades should stay. A key concept of objective gameplay is fighting for control of an area. Barricades provide that focus point.

I’d certainly like to see the EV being damage-able by more than just 'nades and a wheelbarrow load of bullets, and I’d like to see it repairable before it’s fully damaged. I’d also like to see base movement speed increased, certainly for Stopwatch (ETPro uses 1.5x base movement speed compared to vanilla ET for maps with Tanks and Trucks) as well as movement speed being a factor of the number of players escorting it, giving teams the choice of committing players to escort the EV at the cost of defending / attacking an area, or not, as the case may be.

(Samurai.) #10

I like some of the suggestions people have come up with, such as inf3rno’s - add a rocket on top of the existing turret is a nice adaption that would save resources on developing an entire new model/animation from the start. I also agree that one character shouldn’t be the Anti-EV character… hence why we need to introduce a greater variation for all classes to have some form of contribution.

My point with barricades is that they are consistent in terms of every time London Bridge plays out exactly the same. All that happens on LB is once the EV is moving it moves all the way to the barricade which the defence have formed a repetitive setup to defend from. There’s nothing new or unique happening along the path of the EV each time you play the map, it’s too predictable, repetitive and eventually (if not already) will get incredibly boring. I feel like right now the defenders have better chance forming a solid defence around each barricade and letting the EV pass up until that point, rather than fighting over the EV at every point a long the path that they have the opportunity to. With less static moments in the map, you will get players constantly having to adapt to fighting over the territory the EV is passing through rather than letting it get stuck at a barricade and then concentrating all efforts in one territory.

Whitechapel EV in the first stages is a good example whereby there are no barricades and it leads to more dynamic game-play in terms of adapting and disabling the EV in different places each time you play this stage out. For LB i’d personally remove the initial barricades, but leave the barricade at the end of the map so you get easier progression at the start for attackers but then gradually more difficult towards the end of the map, so most games see progression, play out for a good amount of time in obj servers and face a relatively close ending due to objective toughness increasing towards the end of the map.

(Kendle) #11

Maybe remove the 1st and the 3rd? As you say it’s predictable in the sense that 1st will ALWAYS get built (as will 2nd) but quite often 3rd doesn’t. It’s good that there’s a barricade to provide a fixed front line to focus the action, but removing 1st gives the EV a long way to travel and a lot of dynamic fighting along the way. For defence to fall back to (current) 2nd would mean giving too much ground, but by not having to fight over 1st (so soon after the meat-grinder 1st stage getting the EV going in the first place) it would bring into play more innovative tactics when deciding exactly where the best place to try and stop the EV would be, especially if we had this damage on the go / repair on the go mechanic.

Removing (current) 3rd wouldn’t make much difference because it rarely gets built anyway, but at least defence wouldn’t have to risk trying and shoot themselves in the foot for failing.

(Volcano) #12

do you think if the 3rd barricade was buildable once the ev blows the doors rather than when its fully loaded and already moving or even buildable at any point because the defenders first spawn isn’t to far away from it

(Mustang) #13

Alternatively they could be pre-constructed by default?

(Kendle) #14

I think each barrier should be constructible as soon as the previous one is passed, so on LB 3rd should be buildable as soon as 2nd is passed, not just the doors blown.

However, going with Samurai’s idea, which does make the whole thing more dynamic if the EV has a long way to go and can be constantly on the move rather than the action taking place at fixed and pre-determined points, whilst retaining at least 1 barrier on LB, I’d retain the 2nd and lose the 1st and 3rd.

But in general, yes, if there’s more than 1 barrier, build each when the previous has been passed (but not before, or else we’ll have XP whores on pubs when the game goes live).