Details in a map

(ChumChum) #1

I have been mapping on and off for about a year but I still do not consider myself a mapper. There is still an insane amount I need to learn before I would even think about calling myself a true mapper. I am first a competitive player and as this type of player, I find myself leaving out details in a map like chairs or lights. As a player, these things don’t concern me. I care more about gameplay. I don’t care how nice the textures are because I am going to use picmip 3 anyway. I don’t care if I am hiding behind a nice looking model that took days to make or a rock consisting of warping brushwork and applying some random rock texture on it. As long as I don’t get shot :o

So, here I find myself consciously trying to add details to my map and it is pretty rough for me. I try following a theme yet when I see something that changes the gameplay too much, I deviate from my plan to make sure gameplay won’t suffer.

I think part of it is that in real life I never notice the little things like light sockets, cables that run from a light, or the bolts on a chair. I just see the functionality of it. This is carrying over into my mapping which is bad if I want to be a serious mapper. I know some of you prolly notice details so its what you look at first. I am sure if I had an actual place i was copying it would be easy but I like to create something totally from my mind so the details get overlooked :confused:

Are there any of you who had to work on this?
What do you do to make a map more authentic?

(Ifurita) #2

I outsourced the details on my map. Personally, I am not a perfectionist … more like and 80/20-ist. The first priority is gameplay, even for a pub map. This means (to me, in no special order): connectivity, gameflow, and FPS and as a seperate item, time. Details are great, but every detail I add may come at the cost of one of the three items above. So, I typically add a moderate amount of detail, but tend not to go crazy with stuff.

(Schaffer) #3

I agree with Infurita about “details being great” and I also agree that overuse of these has a detrimental effect on the playability of the map.
My opinion is to follow in a simillar vein to what Splash Damage has done in the standard maps. There are details, some of which are just incldued in the textures, but the details are not over the top. Each “room” has some form or furniturings that gives it a sence of purpose without being cluttered.

There are a few custom maps I have played where you step inside a house that has a number of rooms and not a single one of them has any furniture. This gives me a felling or remoteness and lonelyness becuase a house is just not like that.

Details are good but in moderation. Not all players use picmip 3 and they will admire, hoipefully, your artistic skills.

(blushing_bride) #4

The best maps are the ones that take everything in account and do it well, so good gameplay, good fps, good details etc. i have a good PC and i have most things set to high at the expence of FPS. However i really enjoy playing maps like goldrush with lots of interesting things to look at, on the otherhand i dont really like playing maps like supplydepot just cos it looks boring, so if you want to make a good map then make all of it good. the only downside of this is that it takes alot more time.

(ChumChum) #5

The problem with me is I have a hard time knowing what to put in. Like little things like air vents that serve no purpose to gameplay never enter my mind. I have to look at other maps to see whats in them to know what kind of things are used as props. I think it was you blushing_bride who released soem prefabs. I used the vent and such a minor thing that is pretty easy to make but I just don’t see it until I use yours and it does help with the atmosphere.

I guess I am just looking for inspiration. Somethign to open my eyes to details so I don’t need to see what others use in order to add “stuff” to my map.

(Schaffer) #6

Ok then,

Think about the room that you want to detail. What is the purpose of the room and what is the purpose of the building you have created.

For electrical sockets you could simply use textures rather then a detail. These are small and probably not really necessary but if you do include them then maybe only in a complex and not a house. A lot of house still didn’t have electricty during the war and if it’s a remote house then it would be definatley gas.

You appropriate furnishings for the type of room. There are prefabs that you can use to simplify your life. Check out this page thart Drakir looks after:
http://www.sikstrom.nu/rikard/prefabs.htm
The prefabs there are more appropriate to axis/allied compunds than to say a residential house or farm. Turn off the picmip stuff and have a look at some of the other maps to get insperation for simillar type rooms/buildings. I don’t think anybody really cares that you borrowed furnishing ideas from another mapper. After all, all of the ideas come from history. If you do borrow ideas then you can include that in the readme file.

Just remember that the furnishings that you use should be appropriate and consistent. If its a factory then dont include a bed lamp but have heavy industrial looking pipes, machines and storage racks for “stuff”

If its a house then you’d have a kitchen/meals area, bedrooms and maybe another room with some chairs. There might be pictures hang on the ways.

Farms have farm equipment, hay, piles of wood for fires/fences.

If you are really struggling then find somebody you “trust” and maybe PM then a link to the map and ask for there opinion. There are plenty of peolpe on this forum that should be able to assist in one way or another in these terms. I can have a look for you if you like.

(Ifurita) #7

The details I tend to add typically break up the room on the XY axis and add a little Y variation - so they tend to be large, beds, chairs, tables, or they add a little bit of cover, file cabinets.

I personally like to add pictures, generally I have a reason behind each one.

(Moonkey) #8

I know exactly how you feel ChumChum.

Crates and pipes are my best friends, but beyond that I have a really hard time thinking of anything else to put in. It depends alot on the motif of your map, so it’s best to choose something that you have a few ideas for before you decide what type of map you’re going to make. If you like making random machinery or something… make a factory. If you like making ruins go for something like oasis.

(G0-Gerbil) #9

Crates are EVVVVViiiiL :slight_smile:
I remember in Counterstrike days they got so overused there was a backlash of custom maps where you had to find the single crate in the level :slight_smile:

Sadly there’s little alternative - but crates don’t really count as ‘detail’ to me because they provide cover etc so affect gameplay.
The hard part about detail is where to stop - they can affect your map filesize, framerates etc. I am biiiiig fan of detail - I hate maps where houses are just empty rooms (no names, but anyone who knows me will immediately suspect prime candidate ;)).

Detail to me is anything non-gameplay affecting eye candy. For brush-based detail (eg lightswitches, cables etc) just remember to clip them off so players don’t find your tiny little block preventing them moving smoothly around the map.

As for what to use? It’s all down to context. Detail doesn’t have to be just furnishings, it can be the odd puddle, damaged wall (if you do damaged walls try to do more than just axial aligned ‘bricks’ - that is another thing that annoys me). Making places more interesting can be something as simple as having things rotated slightly (eg 4 crates, 1 is at an angle), or even entire rooms and buildings. Keep it relevant. Simplest way? Look around you to see what rooms / places have that stops them being empty spaces.

ET is based on a 3D engine that been around for ages, and quite frankly I’m bored rigid of seeing axial-aligned boxes and rooms. Even goldrush suffers a bit from this to it’s detriment, although luckily it’s made for in other ways. So break it up - the best thing about detail is when it’s used constructively, eg to not only make rooms look nice, but to differentiate them to allow easy location recognition.

(Loffy) #10

Schaffer wrote “Not all players use picmip 3 and they will admire, hoipefully, your artistic skills.” and I have been thinking about that.
Suppose I, as a mapper, write a shader for my artistic stuff (like for example art, paintings, signs or whatever custom textures). And in the shader I put nopicmip and nomipmaps. Will that not “force” all players to see the art, even those with picmip 3?
Suppose I have made a little sign in my next (awesome/incredible) custom map. And I call the shader for this sign “il2sturmovik”. Here is the shader:

textures/ge_textures/ge_il2sturmovik
{
nopicmip
nomipmaps
implicitMap -
}

Wont that do the tric? I’m not sure, but I think so.
// Loffy

(G0-Gerbil) #11

don’t remove mipmaps though - that’s for something different.
Just get rid of nopicmip.

(Loffy) #12

So this will be enuff for me
textures/ge_textures/ge_il2sturmovik
{
nopicmip
implicitMap -
}

and that shader will create a surface that all can see, even those who have tweaked?
// Loffy

(ChumChum) #13

Thanx for the replies all. I think when it comes to the mapping process, I go backward. The map I am working on now, I set up the terrain in easygen so that the allies had some down hill angles for when they get to the objectives or grab the docs. This allows for a quick escape. I used only 3 textures and they are kinda bland. Actually, I thought it was ok until I really started looking at SD terrain like radar :confused: so complex compared to mine.

A good amount of the map is indoors though so I am trying to make it seem less boring and give it some atmosphere. I am waiting on doing boxes last because I always tend to overdo them :o I like thigns like filing cabinets, lockers, and tables tipped over because they are details that add some color to the map yet can be used as well.

I didn’t know about that nopicmip thing. Evillair did a grate that i loved but when i looked at it with my tweaked cfg, it almost disappeared :confused: I guess I can go back and add it:)

Thanks again for the replies, I will post screens when I am closer to completion and try to get some feedback.