Delete Thunder from the game

(Szakalot) #41

[quote="[WAR]Larknok1;119613"]The problem with the MK46 is two-fold:

First, 11 dmg per round is nothing to write home about. This is supposedly made up for by a high fire rate and a large magazine, but…

Second, the bloom to damage ratio is larger than most other guns in the game. Basically, the MK46 is only really accurate for the first 20-30 rounds fired. This results in two problems for the gun:

  1. This means the MK46 is only accurate for the first 330 damage, and after this point barely benefits from the lucky RNG shot. Compare this to something like the M4, which is accurate for more or less it’s entire clip: 490 damage.

  2. This means that the MK46 does not benefit from the next 65 rounds in the same clip without bursting – and if you choose to burst, you have no advantage over a gun that simply requires a 1-2 second reload and has a lower RoF. At 50-60% normal accuracy, the weapon only has a realistic DPS of 70-80. Talk about pathetic.

And by the way – yes, the ADS is very strong on the MK46. But to those who say “it’s an LMG, use it like one” : I would like to remind you that this is a game. The weapons should be balanced to be good at the roles they have to serve within the game. We don’t make snipers horrible on every map and then say “snipers should be used at 50 meters out (like they are in real life), use it like one!” Everything is relative. The MK46 shouldn’t suck at CQC on an Assault class just because “it’s an LMG, you’re supposed to camp and just use ADS.”

Don’t even get me started on the fact that people are saying this about THUNDER of all mercs – the merc designed to get into your face after concussing you.[/quote]

My argument isn’t about realism, but gameplay. What is wrong with having multiple types of guns? Shotguns are best at close range, why not give us a gun thats extremely strong at covering fire and holding a firebase?

Thunder has TIMIK loadouts available for offensive pushes, MK46 is way too slow to push with otherwise. Getting in your face after concussing is thunder-timik territory.

On the other hand, MK46 thunder is a lot more defensive, and concussive nades are better used to disrupt an enemy push instead.

I see no problem with these two roles, imo its an interesting layer to the mercs complexity.

The only problem is that, while good at what it does, MK46 is not excellent; and it definitely should be excellent to compare with the king of all mercs - fragger.

(Amerika) #42

If they only changed one thing it would be the ADS sway. I can deal with hipfire going nuts pretty quickly but I can’t deal with low damage per bullet and a lot of extra ADS randomness making it less reliable against good players.

(bizarreRectangle) #43

Yeah, just those small changes would be nice. Never saw Szakalot make posts so long.

([WAR]Larknok1) #44

[quote=“Szakalot;119752”]

My argument isn’t about realism, but gameplay. What is wrong with having multiple types of guns? Shotguns are best at close range, why not give us a gun thats extremely strong at covering fire and holding a firebase?

Thunder has TIMIK loadouts available for offensive pushes, MK46 is way too slow to push with otherwise. Getting in your face after concussing is thunder-timik territory.

On the other hand, MK46 thunder is a lot more defensive, and concussive nades are better used to disrupt an enemy push instead.

I see no problem with these two roles, imo its an interesting layer to the mercs complexity.

The only problem is that, while good at what it does, MK46 is not excellent; and it definitely should be excellent to compare with the king of all mercs - fragger.[/quote]

Earlier you tried to distinguish the MK46 to a weapon that Thunder does not have access to (the other LMG) in a defense as to why the MK46 should remain high fire rate, low damage.

Perhaps I’m alone in this (although I don’t believe I am), but what I want to do with Thunder is to breach rooms with my Concuss and use his huge magazine and high fire rate to clear the room out. That’s his intended purpose in my eyes (and why I want only a damage increase, and not an RoF decrease.)

His purpose is not to sit behind cover at 20 meters out and ADS his enemies to pieces. Don’t get me wrong – I’m glad that he can do that much, and I would never take that away from him, but it has nothing to do with the fact that Thunder simply cannot perform the breaching role I feel like he should.

This is because:

  1. His hitbox, move speed and health pool puts him at a tremendous disadvantage in CQC engagements.

  2. His LMG hip-fire is sub-par. It blooms very quickly and has low damage on each round. It cannot compete in CQC to other guns which also have incredible long-range potential (M4).

  3. His concussion does effectively nothing at the moment.

All together, the “breach and clear” merc simply cannot breach and clear. It’s fine and well that he’s especially strong at medium-long range. Wonderful. Now let’s make him good at CQC too -(+1 damage, less hip-fire bloom) - the entirety of Thunder’s DPS relies on it.

Additionally – please note that a buff to Thunder’s LMG damage by 1 wouldn’t render his medium-long range preference useless. In fact, it would only make him even better at that role. The difference would be that he’d also be useful at CQC, as intended.

(SpinnerzNQ) #45

Remove him? HELL NO!
Fix him! HELL YEAH!
Thunder is already more broken than Phantom was and, as @Sniff said, Splash Damage isn’t very good at balancing. He said they have sort of “kneejerk” reactions to the community outcry of mercs, guns, and maps. Which is true. Just like Phantom, Thunder went from being overpowered (wasn’t really overpowered IMO, just broken) to being complete trash. I was one of the few to actually praise Thunder and think “He’s pretty much made to piss people off and he does it pretty good.” So I thought, “Yeah, just fix him up a bit and he’s good.”
NOPE, SPLASH DAMAGE EFFED IT UP!
I remember when I came back to Dirty Bomb after taking a small break after the madness of the Meltdown (seriously, I had Dirty Bomb burnout after that event) I learned of Thunder’s nerf. I looked at the hotfix notes and thought to myself “Welp, there goes any reason to play Thunder.” Like the author said, there is no reason to not play Fragger over Thunder now. His concussion grenade is next to useless, now. Like seriously, I remember me and like 3 other teammates were all camping around an Aura Station inside the camping room in the first objective of Bridge and a perfectly thrown concunade suddenly flies into the room and we are ALL concussed. Thunder slowly strolls into the room that we are all STILL concussed in and we fill him with holes in 3 seconds. The Thunder played it right! Breach and Clear! And for some reason, we just murdered him.
It’s not even completely Splash Damage’s fault, it also the community itself’s fault. Immediately, like Phantom, people turned against this merc who broke away from the norm, and Splash Damage is like “Oh crap, we f*cked up this merc! Time to nerf everything about him/her!” And then the community is like “Well this merc is useless now.” and Splash Damage is like “Oh man, let’s buff him and balance him after THREE TRIES.”
So this is the message to Splash Damage:
Balance your mercs the FIRST TIME, so people playing him don’t feel like it’s a chore to play him and people playing against him don’t wanna rip their eyeballs out. And don’t succumb to the community’s outcries just because “Myeah, myeah, I can’t see and I can’t shoot very well at a guy who’s JOB is to BLIND me!”
And to the fans:
QUIT CRYING YOU LITTLE WHINERS!
(also, nerf rhino plz, thnk u)

(Szakalot) #46

[quote="[WAR]Larknok1;121201"][quote=“Szakalot;119752”]

My argument isn’t about realism, but gameplay. What is wrong with having multiple types of guns? Shotguns are best at close range, why not give us a gun thats extremely strong at covering fire and holding a firebase?

Thunder has TIMIK loadouts available for offensive pushes, MK46 is way too slow to push with otherwise. Getting in your face after concussing is thunder-timik territory.

On the other hand, MK46 thunder is a lot more defensive, and concussive nades are better used to disrupt an enemy push instead.

I see no problem with these two roles, imo its an interesting layer to the mercs complexity.

The only problem is that, while good at what it does, MK46 is not excellent; and it definitely should be excellent to compare with the king of all mercs - fragger.[/quote]

Earlier you tried to distinguish the MK46 to a weapon that Thunder does not have access to (the other LMG) in a defense as to why the MK46 should remain high fire rate, low damage.

Perhaps I’m alone in this (although I don’t believe I am), but what I want to do with Thunder is to breach rooms with my Concuss and use his huge magazine and high fire rate to clear the room out. That’s his intended purpose in my eyes (and why I want only a damage increase, and not an RoF decrease.)

His purpose is not to sit behind cover at 20 meters out and ADS his enemies to pieces. Don’t get me wrong – I’m glad that he can do that much, and I would never take that away from him, but it has nothing to do with the fact that Thunder simply cannot perform the breaching role I feel like he should.

This is because:

  1. His hitbox, move speed and health pool puts him at a tremendous disadvantage in CQC engagements.

  2. His LMG hip-fire is sub-par. It blooms very quickly and has low damage on each round. It cannot compete in CQC to other guns which also have incredible long-range potential (M4).

  3. His concussion does effectively nothing at the moment.

All together, the “breach and clear” merc simply cannot breach and clear. It’s fine and well that he’s especially strong at medium-long range. Wonderful. Now let’s make him good at CQC too -(+1 damage, less hip-fire bloom) - the entirety of Thunder’s DPS relies on it.

Additionally – please note that a buff to Thunder’s LMG damage by 1 wouldn’t render his medium-long range preference useless. In fact, it would only make him even better at that role. The difference would be that he’d also be useful at CQC, as intended.[/quote]

giving him higher RoF would server the same purpose.

Thunder is definitely too slow atm., at least with MK46, to be able to breach. I don’t mind that we have different types of assaults in the game (with thunder being more defensive).

I also wouldn’t mind if he suddenly had breaching capability, but I’m more interested in pushing for a more unique role (mid-range hail of bullets, sort of like portable MG from ET or GPMG in QW); since we already have a lot of breaching mercs in the game.

(bizarreRectangle) #47

^^^ Fragger is already good for breach and clear, nader breaches but doesn’t clear as much. I tried defending with thunder, it worked out well to say the least. You can still be a kind of supporting tank when your team is pushing, tanking and pumping out bullets. Variety is always good.

Even though thunder isn’t nearly as effective at breach and clear, he’s still a powerhouse. Loads of ammo, loads of rof, loads of dps and loads of health. I’m not afraid to 1v1 fragger.

Also, everyone makes a huge deal about the hit box for almost no reason. The bullets simply go through the back pack. Would you rather have thunder be a zergling like aura?