Debilitating Concussion Grenades... would this fix Thunder's Ability?

(SzGamer227) #1

(This is setting aside the discrepancies in Thunder’s characteristics, i.e. health, speed, and size.)

Simple enough: What if Thunder’s Conc Nades inflicted the same Debilitated debuff that Aimee’s SNITCH does (without the additional spotting effect, of course)?

The way I see it, Thunder’s primary problem is that his ability is weak and ineffective, serving more as a disruptive/disorienting ability that delays enemies than a combat/support ability that makes your targets easy prey as it was meant to be.

What better way to make it better at that job than having it Debilitate enemies?
(Say, for ~5 seconds at best.)

If concussed enemies took increased bullet damage and had their health regen halted, this would make Thunder much better at the job he was designed to do, but never really could. Concussed mercs would still be able to fight back, but they would have to think twice about it if they were both visually impaired and more vulnerable to damage.

This might require changing other aspects of his ability, such as increasing its cooldown, reducing its blast radius, etc. but this would at least put Thunder closer to the merc he was supposed to be from the start.

So, what do you think?

(Reddeadcap) #2

I mentioned this in another thread and how it’d be a nice change to Concussion Grenades if making Conc Nades decrease mouse movement speed or making them increase spread/blocking aiming down sights unlikely.

The change would be to remove the flashbang effect that concussion grenades have, It’s impractical as it could blind Thunder and that actually being blinded is just all over the place, Facing the grenade, not facing the grenade, not blinded if there’s a deployable between you and it sometimes, etc.

Also surprisingly if you’re in the blast radius of the grenades you can get blurred, black and white vision, where the enemy health bars appear over the double vision, unlike when blinded by the grenades where you can right away see enemy health bars even when “blinded”.

It also seems more fitting as Concussion Grenades could aren’t Flash Bangs and how the backstory that the SNITCH Device zaps enemies with a Neural Disruptor kind of matches the concept of a Concussion Grenade in theory.

(SaulWolfden) #3

Yep, just remove the worthless flash effect and put this on, Concussion Grenades would actually be useful then.

(Demolama) #4

Yes, keep everything else the same and just add this. This will increase his TTK, since he is the only assault merc that relies more on his primary weapon than his special abilities

(RedBeard) #5

Where is the option to replace merc entirely?

(SzGamer227) #6

Probably in an alternate dimension or whatnot. It doesn’t seem to be there.

(KattiValk) #7

I think the debuff should only apply to people who are actually concussed and not just flashed. I don’t know if that counts as a firm yes, but I don’t want everyone who is affected in any way to get the debuff, just concussed people.

(watsyurdeal) #8

As long as it gets rid of the flash effect

Seriously, this thing will have debilitation, flash, distortion of view, disables deployables, a ton of stuff. A little bit overboard

(m86edit) #9

I like the idea, but i think it would hurt aimee’s viability compared to thunder, due to the concs being a lot faster to deploy and recharge.

in my opinion the concussed effect needs to give enemies greater spread, to make it harder to hit the fatass thunderman

(nokiII) #10

Just replace the grenade model with a swiss army knife and you’re good to go.

(solace_) #11

when I originally read the title I thought it said, “Defibulating Concussion Grenades” and I was like, ok, only issue is that he isn’t a medic but alright, we can work with this.

(Eox) #12

It could work, but you would probably have to tune the blind effect to last less long.

Also, I think it would actually be more interesting to put to thunder’s grenades another kind of debuff than debilitation. Just a question of diversity. For exemple, it could be an aim impairing effect, explained by enemies recieving some kind of electric shock from the EMP wave, increasing weapon spread for all enemies hit.

(Jesus) #13

ABSOLUTELY NOT. So what now we are making all the mercs the same ? The solution is all defined for thunders conc just put back the slowing on mouse and it will be done. Oh a cool new mecanic lets put on this merc I like too. NO! A concussion grenade isnt a neurodisrupting device.

(SzGamer227) #14

First of all, Aimee’s SNITCH behaves nothing like a Conc Nade: Even if they debilitated enemies the same way they would be used in completely different ways. SNITCH is a spotting ability and is used to interrupt and impair the flow of enemies from a specific area. Concussion Grenades are a combat ability that are used, well, like grenades.

Second of all, the very definition of ‘concussion’ (as provided by Merriam Webster) is “a jarring injury of the brain resulting in disturbance of cerebral function”. Therefore, a concussion grenade’s sole and entire purpose is as a neurodisrupting device. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

(banteringTurnip) #15

Well comparing it to persay a Nade or Napalm , yes its crap

Now my idea, would be to make the conc nade steal some ammo, yes I said it it zaps your ammo! I believe this would be a fun mechanic to add.

(Jesus) #16

First of all, Aimee’s SNITCH behaves nothing like a Conc Nade: Even if they debilitated enemies the same way they would be used in completely different ways. SNITCH is a spotting ability and is used to interrupt and impair the flow of enemies from a specific area. Concussion Grenades are a combat ability that are used, well, like grenades.

Second of all, the very definition of ‘concussion’ (as provided by Merriam Webster) is “a jarring injury of the brain resulting in disturbance of cerebral function”. Therefore, a concussion grenade’s sole and entire purpose is as a neurodisrupting device. ;P[/quote]

Anyway its still copying another merc mecanic to put it on the one you like.
Crappy idea. I didnt waited so long for Aimée just for Thunder to come take her game mechanic and make her obsolete. Crappy idea all around still. Ill do a riot agaisnt that. Get your own game mechanic. Thunder doesnt need debilitating grenade thats not whats they were intended for in the first place they should never get this.

(JJMAJR) #17

Aww… I liked the idea of Thunder having a tactical light that could blind enemies…

Anyways, sure, why not. It would make Thunder’s LMG compensate its DPS in exchange for possibly making it outperform Fragger’s LMG.

[s]I’d like to see Phantom get (0:30 charge) flashbang grenades (without debilitation nor neutralizing deployables, he could do that himself) or a spotting ability. Or both, if the spotting ability is a context action like comms hacks or something, which would leave him very vulnerable when doing such an action.

Like, hold F over an enemy corpse (has to be a corpse a Phantom has finished) for 3 seconds in order to spot all enemies on the map for 3 seconds. Then, he could use those 3 seconds to land a flashbang really nice in someone’s face.[/s]
(Very tired when making this post.)

(BananaSlug) #18

what people want from the conc nade? they are fine thunder is just a fat dude with backpack full of salt on his bag, buff his health and reduce hitbox, its already easy kill when some one is stunned and blinded

if fragger has strong ability, and thunder weaker one, thunder should be stronger in terms of merc not ability, i think that makes sense, at least to me

EDIT: even if you wont kill any enemy, they wont be able to attack/defend for few seconds and that is great opportunity to push

(watsyurdeal) #19

The Concussion grenades job is to disorient enemies and deal with deployables.

The deployable aspect is fine, the disorienting is not, take away the flash and just have these things work like they do in Call of Duty. Which is they slow you down, mess up your aim a bit, and blur your vision. The closer you are to the nade the more it affects you.

(SzGamer227) #20

[quote=“BananaSlug;167509”]what people want from the conc nade? they are fine thunder is just a fat dude with backpack full of salt on his bag, buff his health and reduce hitbox, its already easy kill when some one is stunned and blinded

if fragger has strong ability, and thunder weaker one, thunder should be stronger in terms of merc not ability, i think that makes sense, at least to me

EDIT: even if you wont kill any enemy, they wont be able to attack/defend for few seconds and that is great opportunity to push[/quote]

Debilitating Concussion Grenades would still be a weaker ability than Frag Grenades: If you want to get kills with a Conc, you will always have to follow up a well-executed ability with a well-executed firefight. A well-placed Frag will always be more effective.

In short: Taking % increased damage < Taking massive damage immediately.

Also, if you have ever played Thunder, people you Conc are very often more than able to fight back. Recklessly assuming they are helpless is a very good way of dying quickly.

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;167527”]The Concussion grenades job is to disorient enemies and deal with deployables.

The deployable aspect is fine, the disorienting is not, take away the flash and just have these things work like they do in Call of Duty. Which is they slow you down, mess up your aim a bit, and blur your vision. The closer you are to the nade the more it affects you.[/quote]

Thunder isn’t actually very good at dealing with deployables, mate. I would rather completely destroy a Heal Station/Turret every 17 seconds than stun and shoot them to death every 15, and beyond that, Fletcher and Nader are far more versatile and capable of clearing deployables as well, and they don’t have massive hitboxes that make them easy to pick off.

Debilitation is far more disruptive than any Concussion Grenade effect could ever be (as I have learned by playing with Aimee), and unlike forced handicaps on vision and movement, the disruption comes from being forced to make life-or-death decisions quickly and having to rely more on avoiding damage. People don’t like slowing/blinding Concussion effects because they turn them into sitting ducks waiting to get slaughtered, which is frustrating since there isn’t anything they can do about it, or they don’t do anything at all, which is bad news for the guy who threw the grenade.