Debate: Levels - For or against?

(kibloy) #21

I don’t see any reason to display player levels, either. It adds absolutely nothing except for a reason for people to trashtalk.

(Amerika) #22

Let us assess the positives and the negatives of having visible account levels. If you have further to add to the positives and the negatives please post and I’ll update. My brain is muddled with a few meds right now (super fun injury) so I might have missed a few key points.

Positives:

  1. You can see how much experience a player has actually playing DB and note whether they might be fairly skilled.
  2. Easier to believe that somebody isn’t cheating if they are extremely high level
  3. Some people see it as a point of pride to show off their time played

Negatives:

  1. Levels are not used in balancing the game (a hidden ELO is) yet the most common mistake people make is assuming that teams are balanced by levels.
  2. Due to people thinking the game is balanced by levels they see their team might not have a high level player like the other team and will immediately blame the game/system for it and might even leave the server right at the start (has happened to me countless times).
  3. Servers clear out after sorting because the one high level player wasn’t sorted onto their team (again, has happened countless times)
  4. Constant, and I do mean constant ridicule from people. I personally laugh at it but others take it more seriously and do not like it. It’s not only negative for the person doing the scorn and for the target person but for anybody else reading which isn’t good for the community in general.
  5. It’s not a good indicator of skill. Some people play to pass time so they are higher level but not highly skilled. A lot of people I know who are in their 30’s and 40’s rarely do more than middle of the pack and most can’t even perform some of the basic jumps the more advanced players do constantly. But they still play to have fun and pass time.
  6. There is no game related reason for levels right now other than picking up a case. Nothing fun to shoot for with getting your next level or every 10 levels.

And @srswizard, my dislike for levels has nothing to do with insecurity. I have no issues in that area :slight_smile: I just want something better. The current system, IMO, has a lot of negatives associated with it that far outweighs the positives. I want them to bring back merc levels, cut them off at 10 per merc, add incentives for leveling them (titles, skins, achievements, cases etc.) but making them finite. People will have a good idea that you’re a pretty good Fletcher player if you’re maxed at level 10. Merc levels could be increased over time as well for new bonuses. There is also some other ideas in there which I’ve written about on the Warchest forum but you get the gist.

But that’s why I’m against visible account levels.

(blisteringOwlNest) #23

I really like @Amerika idea of individual merc levelling, maybe getting a merc specific case each level? I think it would add a lot more detail to the individuals skill with that merc.

(watsyurdeal) #24

Honestly I’m against levels if only to give people one less thing to complain about when it comes to team balance.

It’s a God damn myth, the only thing the enemy team did better than you is actually play as a team. That level 50 Fragger would be no problem if you teamed up on him and gave him a hard time, he can’t shoot two people at once.

(srswizard) #25

Whether or not you hide my level, I’ll continue to stomp pubs, so long as there is nothing better to do in the game, or so long as the game lacks an incentive to do something more constructive.
I’d rather they tackle the root of the issue, instead of doing some kind of a bandage fix/change, that can potentially piss off half of the already shrinking playerbase.

(Talonser) #26

Hello, I am fairly new to Dirty Bomb, and I think that levels make people assume the skill level of others, something that I believe can be viewed as both good and bad.
I think levels are good because as mentioned above, they can profide vague information of the skill level of an enemy (or teammate) so you can adjust your strategy accordingly.

However, I would much rather be unaware of the level of enemy players, as I find it more exiting to be able to develop a skill in flexibility to a situation, so that there is a skill to reacting to certain enemies having more skill than others. Take this with a grain of salt though, since this is only my opinion and I haven’t played for too long either.

(Pecka) #27

I don’t understand why are people bothered with levels so much. I like there is a way to show dedication to game, and of course, as it is XP based, better you play , the faster you level :wink: … 30% of people who voted , voted against levels? :DD Why so much hate? Just why?

BTW they added levels to CS:GO as well, it’s because people like to display their dedication, and I never heard anyone on public complaining “hey there is guy with high rank, team balance sux!” :DD And also not only you level faster the better you play, but you level fastest in competitive game mode (and of course, you are getting drops for each level). That would blow brains of anti-level complainers we have here :smiley:

There is nothing levels means outside of just your dedication to the game. If you just don’t know how to shoot, you can be level 50 and still sux ass. And it also don’t mean you are having so much more game knowledge, you can pretty much have the game “mastered” at level 15 or so if you already have experience with FPS games and you play with someone who explains you tricks here and there.

Now my personal view? I like there is way to show dedication, might it be levels, or ranks, or whatever. And I don’t really mind them also probably because i never judge people by level number, but by their actual skill ;D

Geez, what you would say about my friend Thomaze who is legally level 85? You would probably uninstall the game ;D

(Fiktio) #28

Another level thread?

I’ve been arguing about this case so many times that I would feel myself like a parrot if I have to repeat everything over and over again. So this time I want to mention something that I didn’t mention before.

I was thinking here about balance. That’s what most of us here are looking for, I suppose.
Yes, being high level does not mean that you are highly skilled.
Though having quite low level can tell something useful:

For example just today I went in the server with my friend. I am level 16 and my friend is level 35. (We were first who arrived to the server.)
We like to play together a lot and first we tried to play in the same team when we had a chance to do so, but match quickly turned out to be unbalanced, when more people with low levels joined to the server.
And now I’m really talking about low levels, many of them were under level 5. While being in the same team with my friend we carried awhile, until we decided to split a part: I joined to the opponent team to help this group of low levels and my friend stayed at the opponent team that was also quite full of low levels.
By this way we managed to balance a bit when judging some levels of players.
Like I said before, level does not tell much about your skill level, but let’s be honest:
We can’t expect that team of level 2 - 6 include hardcore MLG pro players.

That’s why I find it good that these max level 5 servers exists.
Beginners have a chance to play with people near their own levels without getting stomped hard, like what often happens if they join in open servers.
So could these max level 5 servers being able to protect beginners at the start be a positive thing, what comes about levels?

And if someone have better idea how to make the same thing possible without levels, I would be interested to hear about it. Because after all having a better match making is probably a thing that most of us are looking for.

(Vinos) #29

I don’t see any reason to display player levels, either. It adds absolutely nothing except for a reason for people to trashtalk.[/quote]

Probably the most and only sensible reply in this thread.

(gg2ez) #30

I don’t see any reason to display player levels, either. It adds absolutely nothing except for a reason for people to trashtalk.[/quote]

Probably the most and only sensible reply in this thread.[/quote]

@Vinos that’s pretty close-minded especially when everyone (excluding some people) on the thread is actually contributing to a constructive argument.

(Amerika) #31

[quote=“srswizard;93617”]Whether or not you hide my level, I’ll continue to stomp pubs, so long as there is nothing better to do in the game, or so long as the game lacks an incentive to do something more constructive.
I’d rather they tackle the root of the issue, instead of doing some kind of a bandage fix/change, that can potentially piss off half of the already shrinking playerbase.[/quote]

Which is exactly why I explained a potential solution/substitution/bringing back something old and then updated it with what could be done with those levels to make them fun but not make them a constant target of misunderstanding in regards to balance and scorn. I’m also 100% cool with making levels be optional.

I don’t consider this a bandaid to the problem personally.

(B_Montiel) #32

What amazes me in all those level issues is that people actually pay attention to it in this particular game for absolute no reason. In every other games where a similar system exists no one give a damn about it and it’s perfectly fine. Even in games where the skill curve is even steeper than it is here. Chivalry for example, which used more or less the same method (it only counts kill in the xp bar but that is absolutely the same system otherwise), you perfectly know that someone with level 40 should have more tricks in his sleeves than someone who is 10. But that’s the only thing, and it definitely does not represent how well they perform in game. And no one complained about it.

I don’t understand why people stick to the high level = skill relationship. They’re not correlated. Personally, I’m facing what the game will put me against and that’s it.

One important fact by the way : in my opinion, the lack of community servers clearly does not help. Currently, vets/experienced/skilled players are simply forced to wander around like anyone on random servers to have some fun pub times. But this generally ends by having balance issues/stomps way too often which are badly interpreted “this guy level 35 gtfo”. Give us the opportunity to rent or have proper pub meeting points, so we can meet each other without ruining the fun of others, please.

(Amerika) #33

I would absolutely love some community ran servers that we could name and run for ourselves.

(Demolama) #34

I can control what people see on my steam profile; I cannot control whether or not my levels are shown in game. The less information people are given about me means I have a greater chance of not being kicked off the server as soon as I join.

As long as I can access any server I want via a browser levels should not exist. No one should be kicked simply because they joined a public server because of their level. It doesn’t matter if the server is filled with level 1s, it is not an excuse, period.

(gg2ez) #35

[quote=“B. Montiel;93867”]What amazes me in all those level issues is that people actually pay attention to it in this particular game for absolute no reason. In every other games where a similar system exists no one give a damn about it and it’s perfectly fine. Even in games where the skill curve is even steeper than it is here. Chivalry for example, which used more or less the same method (it only counts kill in the xp bar but that is absolutely the same system otherwise), you perfectly know that someone with level 40 should have more tricks in his sleeves than someone who is 10. But that’s the only thing, and it definitely does not represent how well they perform in game. And no one complained about it.

I don’t understand why people stick to the high level = skill relationship. They’re not correlated. Personally, I’m facing what the game will put me against and that’s it.

One important fact by the way : in my opinion, the lack of community servers clearly does not help. Currently, vets/experienced/skilled players are simply forced to wander around like anyone on random servers to have some fun pub times. But this generally ends by having balance issues/stomps way too often which are badly interpreted “this guy level 35 gtfo”. Give us the opportunity to rent or have proper pub meeting points, so we can meet each other without ruining the fun of others, please.[/quote]

It’s probably because those games actually have a good skill-balancing system in place.