Weapon RoF calculated at 30fps (frame by frame breakdown). Damage values provided by Evil-Doer and Valdez (Mid-range fall-off may be inaccurate).
DB Stats:
RTCW Stats:
ET Stats:
ETQW Stats:
DB V15404 Weapon Stats (By INF3RN0, Evil-Doer, Valdez)
Evil-Doer
(Evil-Doer)
#2
To add to this, Inferno might want to do it better or a different way. But, here are screenshots of Medic spread from Close and Medium-Close range. This is all full auto with no control, just letting it rip.
Close Range Full Auto (Hip-Fire):
Close Range Full Auto (Iron-Sight) : Interesting enough there are three different recoils for iron-sight.
Medium-Close Range Full Auto (Hip-Fire):
Evil-Doer
(Evil-Doer)
#3
Medium-Close Range Full Auto (Iron-Sight) : Interesting enough there are three different recoils for iron-sight.
INF3RN0
(INF3RN0)
#4
Why is everyone complaining about spread while Anti insists its so low? The reason plain and simple is burst fire. I was doing some testing on weapon spreads tonight and discovered just how much of a difference burst fire makes. The base spread is actually incredibly low, but after the first 6 bullets are fired and the creep comes into play, the spread enters an almost “Brink-like” phase of unpredictability and all the weapons begin to feel the same. Here’s some screenies to show just how much of a difference in spread burst-firing makes.
Standing+No Recoil Control
Scoped+No Recoil Control
Standing+Recoil Control
Scoped+Recoil Control
Strafing+Recoil Control
INF3RN0
(INF3RN0)
#5
Bursting Applied in 2second intervals
Standing+No Recoil Control
Standing+Recoil Control
Strafing+Recoil Control
As you can see bursting reduces the spread by almost 50%. So far most people do not implement burst-firing in their play and that is why you only see 2-3 people dying at maximum per clip. The only times I was consistently able to kill 4 people in a single clip was when I would iron-sight on eng2 rifle or of course use soldier. When bursting you can achieve a spread range that is very close to hold-firing in iron-sight. I want to encourage every active participant in alpha to try out burst-firing and compare it to the results of hold-firing and post their feedback. As of this moment I personally think that burst firing for headshot accuracy just isn’t advantageous enough, which may be in part to the high RoF and not enough difference in hs and bs damage. The fact is that a player trying to burst from the hip versus one who is simply aiming at the body mass and hold-firing is more than likely going to lose because of a flat out difference in DPS. Now this is purely from my view of making the system in place work, but my personal preference is to completely remove burst-firing from the meta-game and instead only have it in place on certain weapon types. DB is designed in a way that apparently wants you to burst-fire from the hip, but doesn’t exactly appear to be the way in which most people want it to play like nor does it really seem to fit well into the overall design scheme.
Mustang
(Mustang)
#6
I tried bursting the other day and would always lose with the other guy on 1-15hp.
The problem felt like in the ~3seconds that I was out of the fight waiting for my spread to reset to 0 he would land the killing blow with his hold-firing.
There are a lot of guys out there with much better tracking/aim than me, but when I went back to hold-firing I was about to land more kills.
I wonder if it would feel nicer on standard weapons for the creep to start sooner (e.g. after 3 shots), but then increase much slower, to allow us to keep the hold-firing that seems to be the most fun, but make it less frustrating in the (also more fun) longer story telling battles.
Then additionally have some specialist weapons that really reward bursting by keeping the late creep start (6 shots), have Brinkish creep increase (as we do now), but then drastically reduce the creep-reset to 0 time so the delay between bursts in much shorter.
N.B. The 3seconds is cumulative, I’d get two rounds of bursting done and then die whilst waiting to do a third. I’m also mostly talking about mid range engagements.
tokamak
(tokamak)
#7
Yeah I noticed the difference in dosing and bursting yesterday. I was like ‘Huh, I’m suddenly hitting things’
Still dosing your fire is really hard a the current fire rate. I totally agree that the fire rate should be a bit lower, but I also like the weapons to have options like single fire and burst fire modes on them. Many of them have such switches in real life and it would really serve the gameplay if they had it in the game as well.
There’s something really immersive about constantly toggling different fire modes depending on what kind of battle you are anticipating, like in Raven Shield.
Anti
(Anti)
#8
Not sure why but your damage values seem off compared to what the game should be doing Inferno, will ask Smooth to take a look at that. Your RoF values are disturbingly accurate 
Regards the Brink spread comparison please go back and compare. Somebody made the same statement hear the other day and when I went back to look I was shocked at the behavior of a lot of the Brink guns, the combo of spread and recoil was frankly scary 
As stated in the other thread, I think we’re close to our baseline for weapons now. From this point we can definitely start to move some guns more towards the ET slower more accurate style, whilst retain others that are maybe closer to the previous patches’ ‘big spread’ guns. Ultimately we want every type of player to be able to find a gun that suits their aim/play style.
MrEd
(MrEd)
#9
Haha, we’ve literally been having a discussion about burst spread visualisations this week. Maybe we should just get you to do it for us INF3RNO… 
iwound
(iwound)
#10
i knew my long range accuracy was better. can see why.
heavy weapon, iron-sight at long range ill always tap the fire, let the spread settle, select target and tap.
medium to long i find im better with no iron-sight in face to face combat. and im better the more opponents iv had
probably due to burst fire, changing targets, release, settle, fire…
while i always continuous fire in a 1 on 1 fight, due to my inferior brain telling me that should have a higher hit rate by not releasing the fire.
the amount of times Ive sneaked up on someone from behind, opened fire continuously and ended up dead.
in close combat il always continuously fire because of the amount of movement from the other player and my gun. its pretty much random if i win.
how could you remove burst-firing though?
Apples
(Apples)
#11
I allways burst fire and never had any problem with accuracy in DB so far, I dye alot because well, lets face it, I suck… But I dont find the weapons to be lottery. The RoF is still a tad too fast and all the guns feel the same to me, but as anti pointed out they’ll move into a more “balancing weapons one by one” now, and that is great.
I have a problem with burst + recoil control + tracking ironsighted tho, can’t put the right words on it yet but it feels extremely hard to track someone while on IS, might be caused by my old rig tho, and the facts that I cant have a smooth game due to low FPS.
Anti
(Anti)
#12
[QUOTE=Apples;422013]I allways burst fire and never had any problem with accuracy in DB so far, I dye alot because well, lets face it, I suck… But I dont find the weapons to be lottery. The RoF is still a tad too fast and all the guns feel the same to me, but as anti pointed out they’ll move into a more “balancing weapons one by one” now, and that is great.
I have a problem with burst + recoil control + tracking ironsighted tho, can’t put the right words on it yet but it feels extremely hard to track someone while on IS, might be caused by my old rig tho, and the facts that I cant have a smooth game due to low FPS.[/QUOTE]
There is some sensitivity reduction when you go Iron Sighted, it could be that. I expect in the end we’ll make that somewhat customizable.
acQu
(acQu)
#16
Official numbers would be cool. Can we have something from the coders directly working on the code.
Also i have to ask again: do you plan to fix on the sound-bulletcount problem ? The amount of shots fired and the sound feedback do not lign up.
INF3RN0
(INF3RN0)
#17
Updated with ETQW stats. The stance modifiers were fairly significant per weapon in ETQW as well, varying per type. Compare stats between ETQW and DB and you will see some major differences.
Mustang
(Mustang)
#18
Those comparative stats make me like DB even more where it is in terms of DPS and TTK right now.
Reduce the spread and add a little more recoil and we’re good to go, alternatively just add the Mustang gun with my own personalised stats and I’ll be happy. 
INF3RN0
(INF3RN0)
#19
Added W:ET stats. Included the helmet reduction damage into the DPS formula for headshots.
DarkangelUK
(DarkangelUK)
#20
I didn’t realize how fast the kills were in RtCW, pretty crazy. DB takes almost twice as long to kill someone by comparison, even at close range.