DB is not dead but on lifesupport and we vets are responsible

(K1X455) #2

How about we segregate them until they mature on their own?

After all, this game isn’t the type that will hold your hand; it’s more likely to kick your teeth out when you’re down.

(boerhae) #3

I agree with you about veteran players not always being that friendly to rookie players. It alienates DB’s playerbase… Oh wait, there is no playerbase. Huh.

Even if everyone were a saint, all that would really accomplish is player retention. I think the bigger issue is that the amount of player influx is low. While everyone should make an effort to tell Auras how to revive and Skyhammers how to Skyham, the reality is this: It wouldn’t be nearly enough.

Instead, we need these two things:

  1. Lore, and events surrounding the lore. DB has a fairly nice story that can be expanded. I cannot stress this enough. Those Rogue en Vogue comics were sweet. That sh*t gets people hyped.

  2. More exposure. Nobody (outside of us) seems to talk about DB anymore. I know nothing about advertising a video game, but… you know. Maybe when 1.0 comes, lots of big ad pushing. (Also, merch. Lots and lots of merch.)

  3. EV glitch please fix this already

(Press E) #4

I agree DB has more problems than just the veterans, but still, they don’t help player influx either. Just look through the steam reviews, pretty much the only negative ones are veterans being salty over everything.
Just on the first page, the negative reviews are:

  • Pay to win (lol)
  • Salty veteran who doesn’t even explain why he’s salty
  • Veteran posting “dead game”
  • And then two noobs complaining about a salty community

Scrolling further through the top rated reviews, it’s also clear that the only highly rated negative reviews are from these salty veterans. I’m not saying that most of them don’t have valid opinions, but the majority of the complaints in them are directed towards SD, not Dirty Bomb itself. It just seems stupid to me you’d tell someone not to play a game you literally said is great, because the developers have a hard time communicating or whatever.
While I even share a lot of these opinions, they belong in a constructive forum post, not in a review section, because the amount of time SD took to add Turtle doesn’t have anything to do with how enjoyable the game is.

EDIT: I got a bit side-tracked but still, you get my point. A lot of a game’s exposure comes from word of mouth and friend recommendations, and it’s annoying to see every DB content creator just repeating the same whining about SD as if they’re revealing some enlightened point of view, even though it realistically shouldn’t impact your ability to enjoy the game. Frankly, I’m not upset a lot of them are leaving, and hopefully with 1.0 release, SD will advertise the game and bring in people who play the game because they actually enjoy it

(Sairdontis) #5

Agreed. I hope that the game gets much more advertisements. Maybe more youtubers and twitch streamers too could point out the GOOD points more than lamenting all the bad. Many potential players will fixate on the bad in a game in a review or stream so if the streamer truly likes the game they need to highlight the GOOD more and like you said save much of the BAD for feedback directly to the devs.

(Sairdontis) #6

True, however after you kick them in the teeth why couldn’t it be more. BAM you knocked them down hard, then you throw some water on them and say, “You got knocked down now do you want to know why and more importantly how to avoid it”.

I for one like to face good opponents to get better too , but better also means having a bit of modesty when you win or are the top of your team . Noobies know they are new, they don’t need their nose rubbed in it. Many new players have valued advise and in some cases leadership in the team during the match. They don’t always voice that they appreciated the help but you can see it when they don’t repeat the same mistakes in the match over and over again.

(K1X455) #7

I’m not saying all of them are like that. Just have a look the image attached at my reply to Wintergreen.

Some new guys are good and I like to see them progress. However, it dawns upon them the scale of progression they need to make to get to some level of comfort and they just lose interest after playing the game repeatedly over and over (it becomes monotonous). The only thing that comes to mind is tell them to keep searching for different play styles and try to master a class rather than a single merc. This broadens their skill for team playing (aka, being a flex player); but even after mastering a class type, they’ll hit some sort of wall because there isn’t anything worth their time progressing into.

#8

I feel like you are exaggerating quite a bit, there are a few veterans whose behaviour isn’t ideal and could be improved, but I haven’t seen someone that somewhat fits your description in a long time (EU region).

Also, I have the exact opposite mindset of yours regarding kills. In my opinion players should focus more on killing since it’s a crucial aspect of the game. You won’t win by having a ton of kills alone, but to reach and thus complete the objective you, for the most part, must eliminate your opponents in the first place. There is no excuse for not atleast trying, as each and every merc is capable of dealing a substantial amount of damage. Running into the same meatgrind over and over again expecting something will change next time you come around won’t accomplish anything. Looking at you, suicide Proxy.

(D'@athi) #9
  • shitty servers
  • warping/lagging/lagswitching players getting advantages
  • mucho skinso but not mucho mapso
  • no balance on joining servers
  • never even had an autobalance while map is running
  • obviously no mandatory tutorial and test before playing
    …
    …
    …
    And we should care?! Sorry, not my job. Just playing as long as it still moves.
(RectalTerror) #10

For me, snippers killed the game.
I hadn’t played for a month or two, trying to find my next fav games. Honestly I don’t undertand why people play Fortnite btw, I just… don’t get it. Is that where the fun is supposed to be? Walking randomly for 5min until you meet someone, die and quit the match? Why isn’t there any Battle Royale where you AT LEAST respawn (as a zombie or whatever) to keep playing against the ones you were playing with? So that last man standing is last man standing against all other players, not just against the next-to-last man standing. I’d still like to avoid Overwatch, because… 6 vs 6… and Blizzard. I think I’m gonna get back to good old TF2.

Anyway I just played a random match to see if anything had changed. Sniper still top-scoring & killing everyone… Of course my team won because… snipers are useless for their team… but it was still a bitter, unfun win, full of respawn/get instakilled up the stairs/respawn.

Edit: oh fuck it, I just played some TF2 (after 8 years or something), it seems to be a sniper fest there too. Less than in DB, for sure, but the game has also aged pretty badly, so… still looking for a good game to switch to.

#11

In my experience, the veterans of this game are the ones who truly cared the most about this game’s appeal broadening and tirelessly suggested ways the current/former problems could be fixed or remedied. How many of these things were taken into consideration and eventually implemented, though? Hardly even a handful.

I’ve said it a million times. Behavior in game (from both veterans and rookies alike) and a game’s perceived ‘toxicity’ is ultimately irrelevant. Anyone who has spent 5 minutes on the Internet should realize this and come to expect it. If you genuinely let that deter you from a game then I’d question the thickness of your skin rather than try to quantify just how bad ‘x’ community from said game is.

Counter Strike, League of Legends, DOTA, Siege, Rocket League, WoW, and Call of Duty all have notoriously ‘toxic’ communities. Yet they have BIG LARGE BEHEMOTH GIANT HUMONGOUS GARGANTUAN COLOSSAL ENORMOUS MASSIVE playerbases. Those mean pricks and obnoxious kids sure do put a fat dent in their revenues, huh? Not at all. Obviously I’m not condoning being a jerk online, but it is what it is. Those games are toxic because people are toxic. Combine that with the Internet being a catalyst due to its anonymity and you’ve got a big wonderful shitmix of some lovelies in the same lobby together.

(Press E) #12

Not saying SD shouldn’t make a better effort to listen to their fans, but even if they did it’s not like veterans all share the same opinions of the game. Just look at phantom for one, a lot of people think he’s perfect now, a lot of people think SD should keep reworking him, and some people think he should just be reverted to what he was before. Most of these aren’t topics you can just split the difference on either, and catering to the majority opinion could potentially mess up a lot of things for other people.

Not to mention player feedback doesn’t necessarily make a good game either. There are some games that went all-in with player feedback, and yet they just ended up losing the identify of the game when they tried to please everyone.

And hell, that’s only some of the veterans too. A lot of them are the same salty people who comment “dead game” on every dev video.

Again, not saying I support SD’s community interaction skills, but I can somewhat understand it

#13

That’s fair. Can’t really argue that. My main point being that most veterans have good intentions for the most part from what I’ve noticed. Of course SD can’t please everyone and there are cases where some vets could be at a total split on a subject or give crap suggestions (not excluding myself from this), but rather that the actions of some vets aren’t the reason why the game is in a bad state… or whatever the Hell you’d call the current state of DB. To blame the long-time regulars of this game is a bit of a stretch for me.

(RectalTerror) #14

Veterans are also the ones who kill a game (or even app), because veterans will be against any change.

For how long can Counter Strike still live, by just updating graphics? The core gameplay of CS is very, very old, and feels very dated, and it’s never gonna change because veterans would be against it. I can’t imagine kids being attracted by CS anymore. Not even counting that a newbie who joins CS will be mowed down instantly, & probably won’t come back.

This is just how it works for games or apps that listen too much to their old community: nothing evolves, until the competition gets so much better that even old die-hard veteran fans also move to the competition.

#15

@RectalTerror, You sure there aren’t new players attracted to CS? I was more of a UT and Quake guy myself, but played 1.6 and Source every now and then. When GO came out even I wanted to come back and give it another try, albeit I wasn’t a kid. I think CS:GO has attracted a ton of new players who had never cared for the old stuff. That game was booming with players a few years ago and I’d imagine it still is. I don’t know man, sometimes I agree more with the ‘if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it’ crowd.

(Nail) #16

LOL, I’ve been hearing people talk about DB being dead for 5 years now, game hasn’t released yet, barely anyone knows about it

(Teflon Love) #17

I haven’t played much in the past weeks but same as @Kirays I don’t share the sentiment of veterans excessively spreading negative vibes in the game. I’ve seen plenty of incompetence and ignorance with new players but very little toxicity from veterans towards new players. But maybe this is different on US servers.

And I still mostly blame SD for the horrible new player experience. It’s one thing to make a game that “does not hold your hand”, but another to be downright abusive towards new players. “Hard to learn” is just an epic fail in usability engineering.

For example:

  • New players are immediately thrown together with veterans that have hundreds or thousands of hours experience. Other games provide bot modes and offline map exploration.
  • The game does not give you any hints which merc would be most appropriate. Other games have visual indications that the team needs a medic etc.
  • Total freedom when picking mercs no matter how dumb your choice is. Build a squad of 3 snipers? There you go. Switch to sniper although the team already has 2 of them? Sure, why not?
  • Make long jumps a central mechanic. Then don’t offer an option to bind it to a single key. But still sticky a forum post on how to squeeze in such a key bind using config files. Schizophrenia much?
  • Spawn camp by map design. Before Underground and Terminal were reworked, spawn camps happened a lot more often. So the developer can do something about it if they are so inclined.
  • There are no achievements that would hint at how to play the game properly. Other games have several achievements that hint at various possible play styles and actions. Instead in DB players are encouraged to craft cobalt loadouts, perform simple actions N times and have mercs 'in the squad" instead of actually playing them.
  • Voice comms are broken. Experienced players cannot talk to new players and give them pointers while playing. Instead they have to resort to the text chat which is easy to overlook and can’t be used while being in a firefight.

“Other games” refers to pretty much any reasonably successful hero shooter, for example TF2, Overwatch, Paladins. While DB IMHO offers far more interesting core gameplay than any of these, it falls flat on the face with the new user experience.

(Teflon Love) #18

There was no need to smurf to match good players with completely new ones. CMM had a small time window were it tried to match players of similar skill. If it could find find enough players within this time limit, it just lumped everyone together pretty much independent of skill and experience.

(D'@athi) #19

Not to mention trying to match a single good player together total beginners in a team and letting them play vs not-so-bad-players who know how to move.
Who would’ve guessed that, even if there was a slightest possibility to win this match, good players didn’t feel compelled to carry a beginner-team to get a nervous breakdown themselves? (Btw same thing inevitably happens today with the shuffles at the start of the maps.)

.

And the community having different, even contrary opinions on phantom and snipers is a complete design-error, as both “classes” really don’t fit the maps and/or the gameplay. I guess on that most of us are able to agree, even if we like to play them. So plx, don’t hate the messenger.

(K1X455) #20

You really can’t beat the PVP aspect of it. So if DB had some sort of CS game mode (aka, EXECUTION) wouldn’t it be right to give CS a Dirty Bomb flavor?

Ask yourself how long has boxing or wrestling been played? Why is soccer still popular now?

(ASD) #21

Hi,

yes the game has issues - alot of them … many smal and some major.
since available I run a comunity server … 8:8 with FF ON no level limits… so level 0 can join with level 50000 … this is alot of potential for being toxic.
yes some are toxic for being teamkilled … but mostly its alot of fun (untill the server gets crappy and LAG like hell untill it gets restarted)
I also saw players who obviously play they first time at all and this in DB on my server… they have no idea at all, how shooters work, how the DB works, how every think works, but they try! they try it the hard way… no tutorial - no other offline game… just connect to some nearly full server and die 50times in 10min!
this is also some sort of toxicity …

whats realy missing is: advertising
If I talk to someone and say Dirty Bomb… they dont know it…