DB is dying because of it's developers are suffocating it


(Sinfulsebastian) #1

I’ve been playing approximately 400 hours since the game opened, playing countless pub/comp games and attending several tournaments, but I’ve finally come to the realization that the game isn’t going anywhere and will most likely die off like a boiling frog within a year or two. Let me start by saying that the core gameplay is there and it could become an extremely popular title, but the developer keeps it in a very short leash and thus curbs it’s growth severely.

Let’s go back roughly 12 years. Around this time SD released Enemy Territory, which has been hailed as one of the greatest FPS titles in history. However, SD’s version came about in a very unfinished state (ETMain is still cancer), was rife with bugs and was released with 6 quite unbalanced maps (sounds familiar?).

But then the community rushed in. They realized there was something worth salvaging, so they started working. They formed sub-communities of modders and pub clans. They created bugfixes, mods like ETPro, ETPub, JayMod, NQ, balanced the stock maps, ported maps from the original RTCW and even created their own, which turned out to be way more popular than the stock maps. Apart from creating a few patches (2.56, 2.60, 2.6b), SD’s influence on the existing product remained rather limited and was in fact refined by the community that played the game. This ensured that ET had a very long and healthy life when it comes to FPS titles, it’s still played and developed further even though the player numbers have dwindled from it’s glory day.

Of course, SD received glory for the succesful title, but it’s worth remembering that they did not even come up with the core gameplay it’s titles are known for. That honor belongs to the Nerve Software, which developed the title Return to Castle Wolfenstein. Unlike SD’s ET version, RtCW was playable from the box and did not require thousands of hours of community work in order to play. One could even argue that ET was heavily downgraded from it’s base game in many aspects (rate of fire, more spam, decreased map quality) and many still regard the original title the superior one.

But what this rambling about ET has to do with DB? Well, SD doesn’t take particularly kindly to criticism nor requests of balance because they have their own vision. As developers, they don’t probably play the game as much as it’s playerbase and they have a distinctly different view on what the players actually need to make the game a better experience. After ET, they achieved minor success with ETQW (which has since died) and seriously flopped with Brink (it never even lived). Unfortunately, they seem to repeat many of the mistakes they made with Brink. By retaining the full influence over the development of the game, they will never reach success because they take too much time to actually do anything. It takes ages for SD to create a map or to balance the game and even longer to create an actually good map. The game will never come alive without drastic changes.

So what’s to be done? Look back to ET and you’ll find answers there. Here’s a couple of points that would make the game much more appealable to your average gamer and add a great deal of replay value for DB.

  1. Bring back the clan communities; allow players to rent their own public & private servers

The game lacks a sense of community in it’s current state. Sure, there are a few teams playing tournaments once in the blue moon, but there’s nothing for the average player. The servers are all EU Objective Mode 05 or EU Stopwatch Mode 02: you don’t really frequent a server, you finish one game and half the server disappears to join another. But a public clan server / community would be often frequented the same faces, thus making you feel belonging to a community when you know where you find the friendliest people or the best aimers in EU/NA. Admin rights would also be an obvious plus to counter cheaters and rude players. Being able to tweak the server settings somewhat could give you that special flavor of being one of those public servers where the team damage is on.

  1. Promote mapping activity

I’m sorry to say, but map creation isn’t one of SD’s biggest strengths. They really could save some money by letting the community create them / port and modify them for DB. The competetive scene (or what’s currently left of it, anyway) especially would appreciate this. Nothing would stop the developers from cashing through this either, granting special privileges to servers wanting to run custom maps.

I doubt the community will ever see complete automony from SD’s vision, but these two changes would not only be significant concesssions to community but promote a longer life for the game.


(AnimeDude) #2

content…GASP…content, please…I’m…dying


(MTLMortis) #3

Thanks for the thoughts that haven’t at all been posted dozens of times before.

now…

http://lm3design.com/rof/OLDCRAP/images/this-is-beta.jpg


(Ardez1) #4

Your title feels a little misleading, but I agree with most of the content of your post. The game could benefit quite a lot from the two suggestion you talked about.

Not having this features certainly hamstrings the playerbase, but it isn’t killing the game.


(Nail) #5

@lovableRaspberry , wrong, etpro was the thing that made W:ET, comp version was what brought the RTCW players onboard. Decent maps didn’t come along for quite a while, the rest of the mods starting with Shrub were crap, xp save was brought in to make ego servers, pretty soon everyone had lvl 4 everything just to stomp noobs


(Sinfulsebastian) #6

@Nail It was a whole array of mods that made ET, not just ETPro. While I did play an unhealthy amount of tournaments and cups as in both RtCW and ET, I know countless people who did not. There was also literally nothing wrong with XPSave servers, considering they often became the servers I was just talking about. Lots of familiar faces and new friends.


(Sinfulsebastian) #7

@MTLMortis It’s been in beta stage since 2013, how long do you think the devs can keep pulling this excuse?


(Ardez1) #8

Until it is released.

EDIT: Beta started in March 2015. Before that it was Alpha.


(Sinfulsebastian) #9

Until it is released.[/quote]

It is pretty much released, considering people are already paying for cases and classes.


(Ardez1) #10

Until it is released.[/quote]

It is pretty much released, considering people are already paying for cases and classes.[/quote]

Making money doesn’t mean something is released. I love that argument though. Being able to cover the cost of development and overhead on servers doesn’t mean it is a finished product.

If they said tomorrow that the game was released I would be personally pissed about it. There is so much more that needs to be done before I would call DB a finished product. Claiming that profit = complete just doesn’t follow. At least it still being in Beta means they are working on it and making changes.


(Sinfulsebastian) #11

Until it is released.[/quote]

It is pretty much released, considering people are already paying for cases and classes.[/quote]

Making money doesn’t mean something is released. I love that argument though. Being able to cover the cost of development and overhead on servers doesn’t mean it is a finished product.

If they said tomorrow that the game was released I would be personally pissed about it. There is so much more that needs to be done before I would call DB a finished product. Claiming that profit = complete just doesn’t follow. At least it still being in Beta means they are working on it and making changes.[/quote]

And when the game has come out in earnest, they’ll still keep on adding classes, trinkets, hats and other visual bling-bling so that they can keep getting a profit off it. Not to mention making balance changes or fixing bugs they never spotted before. I honestly don’t see the difference between the released full game and what we have right now.


(LifeupOmega) #12

[quote=“MTLMortis;147310”]Thanks for the thoughts that haven’t at all been posted dozens of times before.

now…

http://lm3design.com/rof/OLDCRAP/images/this-is-beta.jpg
[/quote]

Aka the time we should be talking about these issues. Before it all gets finalised. Judging by your profile picture you’ve played WoW, did you experience the blunder that was the WoD beta? Where we got several half-finished speccs for classes afterwards that made them unplayable for pretty much the entire expansion because people kept saying “wait 'til launch”, and then when we asked after launch it was “too late to change anything”.

We need a Map SDK. I’m sick and tired of all the dumb issues with the maps we have from basic clipping to invisible walls that only stop ammo/health (but nothing else) that have been in game, apparently, for a year plus. You could literally give whatever they use now to people and they’d be able to fix the maps within weeks. There are videos which extensively list all the problems with each map in regards to this.

Look at TF2, that game is massive, has tools for designing custom content, maps, cosmetics, everything, and has (or had) an extensive, almost exclusively community server base. I could join my regular server and be on a map I’d never played that was miles ahead of anything Valve had out at the time, with people I knew because they were also regulars of this server, there was a sense of community, and you grew and got better as a community. Of course there will be shit maps, but if we go by a voting system of what we want to see, and those maps are put into rotation or hosted by communities, then what’s the issue? We’ll get a load more maps, more variance, and constant fixes - I used to know several TF2 mapmakers, they were tireless in making a playable map.

Hell, if you don’t want custom modes and shit working its way into this game yet, then just give people the tools to make maps and nothing else. Fresh content by players does amazing things for a game’s lifespan. And fixing up the maps we have now while Splash focuses on other stuff is a win-win for everyone.


(Loki.) #13

[quote=“lovableRaspberry;23996”]
Of course, SD received glory for the succesful title, but it’s worth remembering that they did not even come up with the core gameplay it’s titles are known for. That honor belongs to the Nerve Software, which developed the title Return to Castle Wolfenstein. Unlike SD’s ET version, RtCW was playable from the box and did not require thousands of hours of community work in order to play. One could even argue that ET was heavily downgraded from it’s base game in many aspects (rate of fire, more spam, decreased map quality) and many still regard the original title the superior one.[/quote]

So very TRUE…
RTCW, such an amazing game…

BETA - get used to that word…

Easier to answer or justify :
Why does the game have so many bugs/issues?
Beta
Why are so few people playing?
Beta

Going live with this game wont change anything, only thing that will, the Community.
Not offering Community Rented Servers or Allowing Community Created Maps, is beyond me.

O right

Beta… !

Sad thing is, if they ever decided to let the community in, the community may have already left…


(SnakekillerX) #14

Map editor and the ability to one day have private dedicated servers that anyone can setup.
Those are the only things I’m sorely awaiting from DB.

It makes sense to wait until the game is out of beta before releasing these though.
I’m mostly just excited to get our new mercs now, I feel like once the next two mercs are out, the end of Beta may be in sight, and with that probably other goodies.

That’s just my opinion though.


(Amerika) #15

These same sentiments have been expressed numerous times. Just less dramatically. I don’t disagree with what is needed for DB at all as I’ve expressed the same rather detailed opinion in regards to both opening up servers for rent (and the reason why they would want to) and getting mapping tools out quickly to help rally the community of content makers that currently can’t do a whole lot.

SD really needs to utilize the bright and willing people in the community so that we all get to enjoy a better game for it.


(MvMArcher) #16

[quote=“Ardez;147329”]Making money doesn’t mean something is released. I love that argument though. Being able to cover the cost of development and overhead on servers doesn’t mean it is a finished product.

Claiming that profit = complete just doesn’t follow.[/quote]

No but having a monetization system in a beta game does lock certain features in place.
Remember how we have been told that they won’t change the current loadouts because people have spent money on them?
This also means that for the most part the entire loadout/customization system is locked down, we will never see customization separated from gameplay changing options.


(MTLMortis) #17

COUGHCOUGHSTARCITIZENCOUGHCOUGH


(Jesus) #18

[quote=“MTLMortis;147310”]Thanks for the thoughts that haven’t at all been posted dozens of times before.

now…

http://lm3design.com/rof/OLDCRAP/images/this-is-beta.jpg
[/quote]
Yeah this is beta… Since when ? and For how long until an “official release” to me it seems that this little beta written somewhere is just put there to have an excuse for everykind mistake. Because this is the convenient way, anything is wrong ? Well this is beta suck it up. I think people starts to stop believing this frankly bad excuse. And we can’t really blame them


(Jesus) #19

By going that way a game is almost never finished cause there is always modification that are done after release on any game. BF4 was a huge mess at release, it needed at least one year of successive patch after release to make it right, would you call it the beta ? for having played bf4 i can tell you not the beta was way worse. DB right now is more advanced in developpement than any beta ive seen. The “beta argument” remains a bad excuse for me as there will always be bug and modification. A release does not put an end to that.


(Ardez1) #20

[quote=“Jesus;147404”][quote=“MTLMortis;147310”]Thanks for the thoughts that haven’t at all been posted dozens of times before.

now…

http://lm3design.com/rof/OLDCRAP/images/this-is-beta.jpg
[/quote]
Yeah this is beta… Since when ? and For how long until an “official release” to me it seems that this little beta written somewhere is just put there to have an excuse for everykind mistake. Because this is the convenient way, anything is wrong ? Well this is beta suck it up. I think people starts to stop believing this frankly bad excuse. And we can’t really blame them
[/quote]

Been in beta for less then a year. Before that it was Alpha. It was closed beta from March 2015 to June 2015. Open beta started beginning of June or July. So roughly 6-7 months in open beta. A small drop compared to many of the other f2p titles out there who saw a beta period of several years before launch.