DB Feature 'Road Map'

(Evil-Doer) #41

[QUOTE=Maca;433483]TF2 is in a way very noobfriendly, because of the different characters, every type of player can have something to do, to have a feeling that they’re doing something.

But DB is much more standardized shooter, which means that you can be pretty ****ed in battle if you don’t know how to aim. So what can a player who is bad at shooting do? Support his team, that’s why this game has multiple classes.
But everything that makes the players in this game self sufficient, ammo drops, ammo stands, auto-healthregen, they are taking away from the sense of accomplishment from everyone who isn’t that great shooter but have a brain to play a team-based game. By making the ways classes support eachother redundant, you’re denying that sense of teamwork from people who want to play for their team, but aren’t great offensively.
I would like to see DB be a game where all your resources come from your team-mates, then people will be asking for them and a “bad” player can get feeling of accomplishment from just playing the support role of his class.[/QUOTE]

Some great points here actually.

(Valdez) #42

[QUOTE=Maca;433483]TF2 is in a way very noobfriendly, because of the different characters, every type of player can have something to do, to have a feeling that they’re doing something.

But DB is much more standardized shooter, which means that you can be pretty ****ed in battle if you don’t know how to aim. So what can a player who is bad at shooting do? Support his team, that’s why this game has multiple classes.
But everything that makes the players in this game self sufficient, ammo drops, ammo stands, auto-healthregen, they are taking away from the sense of accomplishment from everyone who isn’t that great shooter but have a brain to play a team-based game. By making the ways classes support eachother redundant, you’re denying that sense of teamwork from people who want to play for their team, but aren’t great offensively.
I would like to see DB be a game where all your resources come from your team-mates, then people will be asking for them and a “bad” player can get feeling of accomplishment from just playing the support role of his class.[/QUOTE]

+1 Maca makes a very valid point here.

(Breo) #43

That’s an impressive list! I can’t believe it will be F2P :smiley:
When DB has all the features that are listed, it will offer more then most traditional retail games.

(Evil-Doer) #44

[QUOTE=Breo;433493]That’s an impressive list! I can’t believe it will be F2P :smiley:
When DB has all the features that are listed, it will offer more then most traditional retail games.[/QUOTE]

Absolutely, Splash Damage taking it to another level. You would ASSUME that this will pay off an really make things move an shake.

(tokamak) #45

[QUOTE=Maca;433483]TF2 is in a way very noobfriendly, because of the different characters, every type of player can have something to do, to have a feeling that they’re doing something.

But DB is much more standardized shooter, which means that you can be pretty ****ed in battle if you don’t know how to aim. So what can a player who is bad at shooting do? Support his team, that’s why this game has multiple classes.
But everything that makes the players in this game self sufficient, ammo drops, ammo stands, auto-healthregen, they are taking away from the sense of accomplishment from everyone who isn’t that great shooter but have a brain to play a team-based game. By making the ways classes support eachother redundant, you’re denying that sense of teamwork from people who want to play for their team, but aren’t great offensively.
I would like to see DB be a game where all your resources come from your team-mates, then people will be asking for them and a “bad” player can get feeling of accomplishment from just playing the support role of his class.

EDIT: people don’t quit a game because they sometimes run out of ammo, they quit a game because they get no sense of accomplishment, because auto-healthregen and ammo stands are doing their job.[/QUOTE]

Excellent point. Class distinction is incredibly important right now.

And yeah, making the support specialisations the free loadout is the most sensible thing to do. They’re beginner-friendly and they maintain the desire to pay for something that drives your ego and be an action hero.

(Jonny_Hex) #46

[QUOTE=Dormamu;433429]+1 To what Kendel said, you can always implement a training ground for za noobs thru challenges, coop play, movement curses, aiming target practice and so on. This way you care about za noobs, you give them the tools to improve without imposing some “be gentle with them” rule on your game. :smiley:
As a side note and not related to FPS, Demon’s Soul success was because DS had to strip down all of your bad habits implemented by other rpg game developers,all of the holding hands, and the false accomplishment, it was so very, very hard, that game will take you thru a gruelling experience until you learned to be disciplined. :D[/QUOTE]

Ultimately we intend to implement a ‘new player’ flow which takes you through the basics - something like the tutorials in TF2 or the ease-in progress limitations of Ghost Recon Online, or somewhere in between, or both. Nothing decided as yet, other than it would be optional.

Interesting that you mention Demon’s Souls. Yes, it did disregard the usual western SP conventions, but it wasn’t actually that hard, if you researched outside of the game. More interestingly, Dark Souls (despite its technical issues) is a much better game, because they made some concessions to accessibility - bonfires, flasks and a more natural progress through the game world made for a more engaging experience. Less guessing on where to go next, more obvious short cuts, clearer short and long term goals and objectives. Maybe that’s just me.

On ammo, yes, Fops should be doing this, but that doesn’t rule out the need for alternative ways to get ammo. Corpse ammo is probably going to be removed. Thanks for the reminder :slight_smile:

Edit:

Class roles is something we’re focussing on at the moment, and how to support the support roles.

(BomBaKlaK) #47

remove autoregen ? and autoregen pack ? some real 20 HP medpacks ?

(Jonny_Hex) #48

Thread…

http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/35110-Quick-little-medic-thought-an-discussion

(BomBaKlaK) #49

already on it :wink:

(ImageOmega) #50

[QUOTE=Maca;433483]TF2 is in a way very noobfriendly, because of the different characters, every type of player can have something to do, to have a feeling that they’re doing something.

But DB is much more standardized shooter, which means that you can be pretty ****ed in battle if you don’t know how to aim. So what can a player who is bad at shooting do? Support his team, that’s why this game has multiple classes.
But everything that makes the players in this game self sufficient, ammo drops, ammo stands, auto-healthregen, they are taking away from the sense of accomplishment from everyone who isn’t that great shooter but have a brain to play a team-based game. By making the ways classes support eachother redundant, you’re denying that sense of teamwork from people who want to play for their team, but aren’t great offensively.
I would like to see DB be a game where all your resources come from your team-mates, then people will be asking for them and a “bad” player can get feeling of accomplishment from just playing the support role of his class.

EDIT: people don’t quit a game because they sometimes run out of ammo, they quit a game because they get no sense of accomplishment, because auto-healthregen and ammo stands are doing their job.[/QUOTE]

I just had to add some promotion to Maca pointing this out in this thread. +1!

(ImageOmega) #51

[QUOTE=Jonny_Hex;433508]Ultimately we intend to implement a ‘new player’ flow which takes you through the basics - something like the tutorials in TF2 or the ease-in progress limitations of Ghost Recon Online, or somewhere in between, or both. Nothing decided as yet, other than it would be optional.

Interesting that you mention Demon’s Souls. Yes, it did disregard the usual western SP conventions, but it wasn’t actually that hard, if you researched outside of the game. More interestingly, Dark Souls (despite its technical issues) is a much better game, because they made some concessions to accessibility - bonfires, flasks and a more natural progress through the game world made for a more engaging experience. Less guessing on where to go next, more obvious short cuts, clearer short and long term goals and objectives. Maybe that’s just me.

On ammo, yes, Fops should be doing this, but that doesn’t rule out the need for alternative ways to get ammo. Corpse ammo is probably going to be removed. Thanks for the reminder :slight_smile:

Edit:

Class roles is something we’re focussing on at the moment, and how to support the support roles.[/QUOTE]

Jonny_Hex, I remember seeing your “introduce yourself” post and thinking good things. Glad to see you on board.

I think the easing of newbies into the classes and subsequently the battlefield is a great thing. Do you think that beyond the basics there is a need to highlight the importance (and possibly the rewards) of class synergy and playing the objective over running and gunning? I think these are things that are often implied or glossed over in shooters, yet highly vocalized by the players (especially when complaining about newer players).

Also, would there be room to further implement ways to have everyone, regardless of play style, feel that self accomplishment in game. An example of this is the Engineer in TF2. Them building an ammo/health station or turret in the right spot is crucial and instrumental for the success of the team. Maybe there is also the rewards from the game itself in the same vein as “xp” or “levels”.

(scre4m.) #52

are you planning four FULL character sets?

(Anti) #53

I wouldn’t have written it if we weren’t :slight_smile:

(tokamak) #54

Oh boy oh boy!

Would love to provide feedback insights ideas and rants!

(iwound) #55

Custom game sessions

I’m intrigued.

(Jonny_Hex) #56

Yes, absolutely.

And yes - it’s really important that we find as many ways as possible to support different playstyles and allow players to feel able to be useful and rewarded, even if they’re not the best at aiming and shooting. Supportive teamplay, XP rewards, levelling are all good examples.

(scre4m.) #57

I must admit, my post was pretty dumb, cause I didn’t say what makes me worry a little.

So,
before saying this is too much I am just awaiting what will come up and I am already keen on 4 loadouts for FOPS and Recon and all the balancing work incoming. YEHAAA.:penguin:

(tokamak) #58

If anything this is the best way to make a game more accessible without having to compromise on the shooting mechanics. Not everyone needs to be able to kill people if there’s equally important other roles they can fulfil. Even the players that want to be good at shooting can be of use to the team, stick around in tense situations and gradually learn to fight.

This is something that’s completely absent in games like BF and COD. There it’s all about shooting and those without experience get very little opportunities to gain more.

(SockDog) #59

[QUOTE=Maca;433483]TF2 is in a way very noobfriendly, because of the different characters, every type of player can have something to do, to have a feeling that they’re doing something.

But DB is much more standardized shooter, which means that you can be pretty ****ed in battle if you don’t know how to aim. So what can a player who is bad at shooting do? Support his team, that’s why this game has multiple classes.
But everything that makes the players in this game self sufficient, ammo drops, ammo stands, auto-healthregen, they are taking away from the sense of accomplishment from everyone who isn’t that great shooter but have a brain to play a team-based game. By making the ways classes support eachother redundant, you’re denying that sense of teamwork from people who want to play for their team, but aren’t great offensively.
I would like to see DB be a game where all your resources come from your team-mates, then people will be asking for them and a “bad” player can get feeling of accomplishment from just playing the support role of his class.

EDIT: people don’t quit a game because they sometimes run out of ammo, they quit a game because they get no sense of accomplishment, because auto-healthregen and ammo stands are doing their job.[/QUOTE]

Can I be the descenting voice amongst the choir? :slight_smile:

I agree with what you’re saying from several perspectives but can I try and add one more? That is players who have no bloody clue about or are too selfish to support their team. I’ve seen such people in this Alpha, hell I’ll own up to sometimes being a terrible FOps in regards to dropping ammo enough. My point is, is there a positive to reducing the reliance on classes for support? Could this mean games flow in a more consistent and balanced manner because you don’t absolutely need a medic to heal you so that Rambo medic on your team isn’t impacting you as much as he would in another game. That of course isn’t to say that a team who does use classes to support each other won’t see a benefit, only that the benefit would be reduced.

I feel odd writing this down, it’s not something I’d normally agree with myself. It’s certainly a departure on what SD has done before and I expect it would see a lot of criticism just for that before any real analysis on it’s gameplay impact. Anyway, just a devil’s advocate signing off. :slight_smile:

(tokamak) #60

It becomes a problem when being highly supportive is easy. And I felt that Brink went that way. There was no prestige in constantly supporting your team other than that you would merely have to remember to keep on doing it.

The trick is to make mediocre supporting as easy as mediocre shooting and excellent supporting as difficult as excellent shooting. If that’s the case then a player should be able to not ever fire a single round but still be as valuable as the best shooter in the game. That’s what I would find incredibly appealing.