Damage model

[7.Teku]

As it sits, this game barely rewards you for skilled aiming. To change this, headshot damage NEEDS to be increased. Thoughts?

[potty1]

I agree that skilled aiming is not rewarded enough but not because of head shot damage. The spread on some of the weapons is just too high. Lower the spread and lower damage given overall imo.

[The99thProblem]

Well, if this game was aiming for realism, head shots with any gun would be one hit KO. But that would be great unbalanced and unappreciated by, I believe, all players. I say this because snipers have to work tremendously harder than someone with a spray and pray gun. At this point, about 3 headshots with most guns are death (or close to death against tanks), so if someone with a automatic rifle was to snipe at a sniper that would appear a bit broken if they could kill them with 1-2 headshots…

Also in games, it is very annoying when you die too fast. Dirty Bomb like to award players with skill, not so much their reflexes. Battles last long due to low damage outputs so you know that the last man standing is the better of the two and deserved the kill. #KillsAreEarned

[DamarusRex]

Oh a thread about headshats xD
Here am I!

Playing sniper is hard because DB is kinda super smash bros fps-style! Everything is bunnyhoping, running in every direction. Unless he’s been played by uberplayer. But forbiding OHK in middle range with any weapons is ridiculous. Even in non-realistic games, it’s a flaw. Not to mention all characters don’t have helmets (cuz it’s just cosmectic stuff). So I would go for the headshot 2HK max.

In games it’s annoying when you die fast AND have to wait 20 secs before respawning! If it was 10 secs instead, the speedrate of death would not bother much i think. But i know it’s hard to balance, i know.

The fact confrontations last long isn’t a good point imo. What’s the point playing a fps if your aiming has not incidence because players seems to have 400hp.
I hope there is a lot of players like me, that just can’t possibly think about “aiming at body”, cuz it sounds absurd, and try to aim at the head instead, and it’s never rewarding (not enough at least). Then, 3 hits, ok, but with the current weapons spread, it’s like trying to knit sat on a washing machine turned on.

[BZ1]

yup headshots definitely needs to be buffed and a dink sound would be cool kinda like counter strike

[irishrOy]

yup headshots definitely needs to be buffed and a dink sound would be cool kinda like counter strike

You can activate hit-sounds in the volume-options

[Rimmorn]

Are you guys really complaining about spread? We’re practically using laser guns for anything else then very long range. Its actually hard to hit people because of this while strafing, especially with lower firerate guns.

[7.Teku]

I never said that the game should be more realistic. Just that headshot damage needed to be buffed to reward skilled aiming. In BF3, CS, Quake you can die really fast and it isn’t annoying at all. Most of the time when you die in those games, it’s because someone has better aim (and movement) than you do.

In those games when you’re playing against multiple enemies and you kill them all it’s because you are better than them. In this game it’s too difficult to kill multiple enemies because of the damage model. Not because you missed your shots or because the 3 enemies you’re dueling with are better than you. It’s the non rewarding damage model.

[DamarusRex]

I already tried to compare to CS on the forum, but seems DB gives no duck about that damage model yet. Also the fast paced gameplay is one big difference between realistic fps and DB. Allowing kills while moving/strafing is part of the gameplay. So if you’re used using an m4 in Operation Flashpoint or CS, you’re ducked in DB because “different gameplay”. There’s nothing much to do, but i still agree, headshots at least should be more realistic, more deadly.

Some people would say “men, if everybody headshot, some weapoons and clesses would be useless”. To which i’d respond one word : “FPS”. That’s the concept of fps, allowing you to “aim” heads with any weapon, if you can handle it (Dmg, RoF, spread, hip, single burst etc) no matter the class, you can headshot. Imo if you don’t keep it, why developping an fps?
Then the problem should not be OHK, the problem should be making different RoF and spread depending on weapons classes, to which players would adapt themselves.
Classes such as medic should not have heavy dmg guns, cuz “support class”. But if they hit heads with it, they’re rewarding by almost-instant kill. Soldiers should have heavy dmg weapons, but no buffs at all on the other hand. That would create an “ammo dealer” class, which is support class, and again, no heavy dmg weapons. And so on. But all classes should be able to 2HK in the head (if not OHK).
I enjoy DB so far, but not as much as i could to convince me. I don’t want it to be played by only 18 players worldwide 1 year after release, just like Brink is.

I mean, at least SD should TRY what we say, so we confirm being mistaken. Instead of “it would this” or “it would that”. Make the server with what we say already and let us try this way at least! I’ll maybe create a topic with this idea going. If players interrogate about that, it means it has to be considered somehow. A server with low spread and 0hk-2hk (depending on weapons), that’s all we want.

[ToonBE1]

Lower spread, lower damage.

Game needs even longer ttk imo.

This is not your typical CS or CoD

[DamarusRex]

I’d rather leave DB for Street Fighter or chess if ttk get increased, would feel the same.
CoD damage is too excessiv (they have like…10hp total right?). In counter-strike, if you don’t aim for the head, it has half of DB ttk, which is not that bad actually. Duels can last 4 secs at most while uncovered! That is long enough, no?

What we try to say for several days is NOT we want uber realism ballistic or whatever. We just want localised headshots to be more painful than it currently is. I think it’s fair, considering how hard it is to hit heads in DB cuz of fast gameplay. So if damage is not raised, we logically call for lowered spread.
There should be polls on the site, it’s unfortunatly pointless to discuss sometimes as players have different feel on same thing, not only because they’re good or bad, but because of what they play aside too =/

[ToonBE1]

The problem is u refuse to accept that this game wants to do it differently. In fact before this closed beta got as big as it is now almost everyone was asking for longer ttk. And still a lot of people are. Headshot damage should not be increased.

In my opinion ttk is fast, even too fast. If you enjoy realistic shooters go play cs, cod,… There are tons of games providing such an experience.

I think you are just frustrated because you can not get the kills you want. That is why you complain about the damage being to low. If you had more precise aim you would know that you can kill any merc within 3s just with a couple consecutive hits. ding ding ding and kill.

So no, as many other (probably more seasoned/experienced/oldschool(?) players think that ttk should be longer. I very much welcome this type of arcade obj and team focused game. Don’t try to make it into something you would feel more comfortable with.

Just focus and aim better:)

Cheers!

[irishrOy]

[quote=“ToonBE;2767”]Lower spread, lower damage.

Game needs even longer ttk imo.

This is not your typical CS or CoD[/quote]

I already need to shoot the average enemy (Striker, Skyhammer, Nander) ~2-4 times under 15m with the lever-action-shotgun to kill them, while people with the LMG/AssaultRifle can just hold down the button and a-d-a-d-a-d-a-d all the time.
That’s just ridiculous.

I understand your thoughts, Toon, but this game is a shooter paired with moba-influences, as I see it.
And a shooter lives by “short” TTKs. Higher TTKs may work with almost any automatic/semiautomatic weapon. But concerning shotguns or bolt-action-sniperrifles, this rule does not apply there.
This game is moba-influenced by the fact, that we don’t have “classes”, but different characters. And we can’t choose our own weapons/loadouts, but we receive already-prepared loadouts from boxes, which is also somewhat moba-style.
Teamwork- and objection-focuses gameplay are more rewarded than pure killing (or @ least that’s what it should be. I still find it rather un-rewarding to resurrect downed teammates, even though this is a truly dangerous thing to do), which is also moba-style.

So having a medium-fast-TTK is quite good, IMO.
Good game-examples are BattleField3&4, and Planetside2 (for a more short, but still “high” TTK).

What leaves me a bit worried is the fact, that this game has Shotguns and bolt-action-sniperrifles, but these weapons do not fully live up to their potential as a shooter-weapon.
Shotguns are focused on 1-hit-kills (or maximum 2-hit-kills) in CloseQuarterCombat. Ourside of CQC, outside of a 15m-range, Shotties are rendered useless.
Shotties rely on this OHK, when the first shot does not kill, you have to give off a 2nd shot. And this takes ~0.33s. But when the other weapon has a RoF of more than 600, they already shot 3x, while you only 1x.

While it takes to give off 2-3 shots with a Shottie, the enemy has already shot easily 3-6 bullets. With Shotties you are limited to CQC, but even in CQC they don’t really work as they should.

Solution to this: increase the spread slightly, so when shooting under 15m you have a larger hit-area and it’s not like shooting an AssaultRifle with a Rate of Fire of 50.

[DamarusRex]

[quote=“ToonBE;2771”]
I think you are just frustrated because you can not get the kills you want. [/quote]

[left]You’re right, but it’s not much the kills i “want”, but “how i want” (and besides i never care about frags in SD games). I am influenced by other games, but i played quake wars, wet and brink as well (brink had terrible shooting, that was the first frustration). And i have to admit, i played medic in each one of them because i felt the shooting broken, so there was no point for me to play a killer class in any way.
I hoped DB would finally fit players like me. And still i want to love E.Ts. But that’s hard. I wont change my mind on spread though. [/left]

[INF3RN01]

I think it’s pretty good now and I definitely feel rewarded for headshots, but 2.25x could be better. Really the biggest thing would be to increase the base speed again, but then you’d have people complaining ‘reg got worse’ as a result lul.