Customizable weapons - any future plans?

(Bananas) #21

I’m going to go against all the people screaming no here.

Giving the option to customize stats/addons for your gun allows for more player expression. Is it harder to balance? Yes, but it allows for more game play dynamics.

Take the popular game of League of Legends for example. In the game players have the choice of what runes and masteries they want to use to augment their champion. Do these choices break the balance? Not really. Do they still affect the game play? Yes.

So now when I choose a champion, I have the option to choose what runes, masteries, and items I use. It allows me to tweak my game play to my play style. It’s interesting to see different players choose different set ups and builds based on what they prefer.

As far as “pay to win”, I don’t see that being a problem as long as the system is implemented well. I’ll be happy as long as there isn’t +HP skins like one f2p game I played.

(Apples) #22

This

Cosmetics only in pay system please… The game need to have a core system that 1) work fine and run smooth, is focused on playing as a team and win the game with a good balance --> Customisable weapons can break that balance and 2) the comp scene must be as close to the pub scene in the game they respectively play --> restriction on all customisations for the weapon in comp will create a gap that might not exist if SD want comp/pub to be as crossable as possible.

(Nail) #23

just add this
http://pimpmygun.doctornoob.com/app.php

:penguin:

(SockDog) #24

I vote for “Hell No”.

I still don’t get this, “Big enough change to matter but not big enough change to impact gameplay.” logic.

18 gazillion guns but you know there are really just a handful of combinations that anyone is going to want to use.

Balance above all else. This shouldn’t become an impossible task for SD to address with immediacy.

What I could see.

I think offering different skins or even models for guns of the same spec would be good as of course are colouring options.

(Dormamu) #25

Keep in mind that Echo can show which weapon is more used in the game, i think it can also track if a weapon with n atachements is more powerfull or used more often, the changes to atachements or wepons are made more easy now, so the probability to have all the players use the same gun are more slim than in Brink.
I’m against the pay2win scenario, but i don’t fell confident at this moment to dish out the weapon atachements.
Atachements, new guns, new abilities, new chars, new skins, etc, are some kind of goals SD can set to keep the players hooked. Their need to be things you need to unlock, or some players will quit after having all of them unlocked by xp or money.

(Maca) #26

This is true, but the only thing on that list of yours I disagree with are the attachments. All the other things are great for creating balanced diversity, but the attachments only give these minute differences that will ultimately make balancing much harder. This is mostly because attachments affect only your aim, and there are so few ways aim can be affected before it changes into whole different gun. It’s good to have variety and personalization but it’s needs to be clearly defined. Attachments blur all those lines between different weapons and make things unnecessarily unpredictable, so that you have no idea what to expect when you meet an enemy.

(SockDog) #27

But ultimately after all that variety you’re really just ending up with a few things that work. Surely it’s better to just have those few items and avoid the whole build-a-pew-pew side game. It’s complexity for complexities sake, it doesn’t offer any benefit because in all honesty all the guns need to balance out, there is no secret formula to an over powered weapon so really it comes back to that, having 1000 graduations between 1 shot per second and 2 shots per second or simply having two guns that offer one or the other.

(Nail) #28

stopping power/damage is controlled by the cartridge, accuracy by the weapon, shouldn’t be too hard to figure things out. there’s 3 long gun calibers, 3 hand gun calibers, 6 different damage models. now a XCR in 7.62 x 39 will be more accurate than my SKS, but it costs $1200 more and that advantage goes away at 200 meters. Use reality to shape virtual stuff

(acQu) #29

[QUOTE=Nail;429834]just add this
http://pimpmygun.doctornoob.com/app.php

:penguin:[/QUOTE]

That is just one epic site. Thanks for posting this. No clue what i did, but i made myself a mixture of a shotgun, combined with stanag mags and some kind of ironsight mixture (holosite maybe). If i had the skills, i would immediately implement this in DB :smiley:

myweapon.jpg787×249 36.5 KB

It is missing a proper grip though …

EDIT

Some kind of sniper ? >

myweapon2.jpg972×207 45.3 KB

Could use some more work :slight_smile:

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But just to keep this on track, i do not think this would fit in DB if done that extreme. But slight modifications can always be built in. Planetside 2 balanced this very well in many cases. Their concept with the melee infantry weapons was, as i perceived it, variety of guns, which can be unlocked to add something a casual player can come back for and spend time for by achieving and earning it ingame. I have not gone through their whole system, but mostly this is how i perceive their melee weapon system.

As for why do you need this ? To keep players ingame and give them a reason to pick up the game for longer than a few hours/days/weeks. PS2 (sorry for repeatedly comparing) basically would be a lot more unentertaining if it hadn’t such a system which made you come back to unlock more items and ‘upgrades’. Simply the process of spending time on that can give you a very rewarding and satisfying feeling. Another reason is to fight the linearity DB currently has in almost all aspects of the game. If you have another idea to fight this, then i am all ears.

Also: in W:ET you had such tendencies as well, e.g. via xp you upgraded through different character skill levels which basically enhanced your play and made you superior to someone ‘lower leveled’. And there also hardly anyone complained, so why should something like a scope or a silencer be suddenly so overpowered ? These are far more harmless ‘upgrades’ then you had in W:ET. And a pro scene did also evolve around these principles of xp based skill leveling.

(RasteRayzeR) #30

customizable weapons should be about the look, not the specs … and I guess SD could make packs to sell with character skin, maybe a few exclusive VSAY entries, XP boosts, etc.

Btw, I would so much enjoy a pack to buy with additional taunts in the VSAY .> insta buy :smiley:

(Nail) #31

like I said, it’s the weapon that determines the accuracy, not the holo sight, sights should be about your preference on how you acquire targets not something that improves accuracy outside of telescopic for distance. Damage model must be based on cartridge, accuracy on weapon. Only then can you decide what plus or minus can be assigned to things like: Heavy Barrel, Suppressor, Bipod, Front Grip.

(acQu) #32

Yeah, already different sights and ironsights, without changing the ‘specs’, would be more than enough. It would simply be nice and add a little variety. The other things, as long as they change specs (too much), people will start to cry i guess :slight_smile: I do not know what they have against this, but imo if SC2 had not so many crybabies crying about OPness, the game would not be that successful :smiley:

Also the whole “you have more xp than me this system sucks because you are better now” is not something i find critical. I find it part of the fun, if done correct. It challenges you and it keeps you ingame, until you are on the same level or even higher than your opponenent. Of course if this system is not giving you the slightest chance to e.g. kill your opponent if he has a higher level than you, then the system is not working. It all depends on how you do it, there is no black and white, there are always different degrees. You should also not go to the extreme here and totally base everything on levels and make the game a xp grinder, where you spend 1000 of hours to get to the next level and to finally be equal to your opponent, no i do not think that would be favourable. I would rather see it as an addition, a nice aspect of the game which is not overstressed. It also depends on how you define an ‘upgrade’. There are upgrades which enhance your skill significantly, and there are others. In this case of weapon customization i would be careful to use the word upgrade. If you do it right, then it is no upgrade, but rather something different, with pros and cons depending on the situation.

My final suggestion is: look at BF3, look at PS2. Such a system is an integral part of their marketing strategy, to keep players motivated to play the game. It is kind of a part of the long-term model, if you will.

And my final, final suggestion is (sry) to introduce two game modes (two different mods) inside the game: comp mod and pub mod. This would solve the problem of having the game not played, because it is way too linear to keep the balance for the comp players.

(tokamak) #33

You want something that players can build an affinity with. They want more than just presets because no matter how specific and unique the preset, they will always want to make their own choices.

Furthermore, I do want to see player development during the match or during several matches. This makes games like ET and LOL incredibly addictive. Rather than time spent on your character you get reward for the contribution you make during that match. Rather than playing a few rounds you want to play for hours because you keep chasing the purple dragon of campaign perfection, I almost had to redo my year in high school due to the 6-map W:ET campaigns.

And for a F2P game this is more important than ever. You don’t sell copies, it’s the number of players online that generate your revenue.

(acQu) #34

[QUOTE=tokamak;429932]You want something that players can build an affinity with. They want more than just presets because no matter how specific and unique the preset, they will always want to make their own choices.

Furthermore, I do want to see player development during the match or during several matches. This makes games like ET and LOL incredibly addictive. Rather than time spent on your character you get reward for the contribution you make during that match. Rather than playing a few rounds you want to play for hours because you keep chasing the purple dragon of campaign perfection, I almost had to redo my year in high school due to the 6-map W:ET campaigns.

And for a F2P game this is more important than ever. You don’t sell copies, it’s the number of players online that generate your revenue.[/QUOTE]

Building an affinity with your own weapon is just a part of it. Others for example are to offer players a bit of variety. Not just by perceiving these items ingame, but also in terms of different goal-levels. Some then want to play to unlock items, some others play for the usual suspects. It supports long-term engagement of players. PS2 is a perfect example, i basically just come back to unlock different stuff on my equipment.

What would kind of miss the point is selling these items just per real-life cash. This would miss a crucial point. Players also want to earn their stuff.

But there are also other reasons explained in this thread already. I really can’t sum it up ‘pretty enough’ to give you a full list to what advantages this might have.

(tokamak) #35

Content should be exclusive in three ways, through effort, through chance and through paying. Then you can make combinations from these three and you end up with 7 different ways of obtaining in-game content.

(acQu) #36

With skins i would propose an expansion pack, e.g. X$. With this expansion pack you can simply gain the full pallet of different skins and gain the ability to earn them ingame, in addition to the default ones, which are achievable the same way for everyone eles. I would connect the ‘earnable’ part of it to XP-based and achievement-based (e.g. a mapwin) game currency.

I think especially earning them ingame must be the major way to do it. With expansion packs you can unlock more content to be earned ingame :slight_smile: I think that would be best :slight_smile:

EDIT and the same concept can be applied to weapon modifications (as long as none of these offer a clear advantage, i am mainly thinking about different iron sights and scopes here).

(Bananas) #37

I would really like an official post on what Splash Damage has planned for this type of stuff. What are they planning on using the xp/level system for? What are they planning on selling? How much customization, layouts, extra weapons, etc are they looking at adding?

I guess it might be a little early for specifics, but just a general idea would be interesting to hear. I’m just really curious about what direction Splash Damage is planning so far.

(INF3RN0) #38

People just saying NONONONO! is not helping this at all… there has to be somethings sold and not just clothing. I think that currently SD is looking at the item shop in terms of aesthetics and alternate class loadouts. Maybe there’s some other options that can be made to work as well. We need to be discussing options that can work and not just nay saying based on the assumption that such things can’t be made to work.

Some options I can think of that could work under the right amount of testing:

-Aesthetic clothing gear/weapon skins/models/animations/effects/vsay packs
-Aesthetic/minor alt weapon attachments (scopes/grips/silencer/etc)- Some could offer actual changes, but again would be balanced with default.
-Class loadouts (think LoL champs, same general use but different method of use or slightly different non-obj skills)
-Alt weapon choice types per loadout (again balanced; think of replacing your gun1 on conker with a balanced alternative)

(Maca) #39

[QUOTE=INF3RN0;430034]People just saying NONONONO! is not helping this at all… there has to be somethings sold and not just clothing. I think that currently SD is looking at the item shop in terms of aesthetics and alternate class loadouts. Maybe there’s some other options that can be made to work as well. We need to be discussing options that can work and not just nay saying based on the assumption that such things can’t be made to work.

Some options I can think of that could work under the right amount of testing:

-Aesthetic clothing gear/weapon skins/models/animations/effects/vsay packs
-Aesthetic/minor alt weapon attachments (scopes/grips/silencer/etc)- Some could offer actual changes, but again would be balanced with default.
-Class loadouts (think LoL champs, same general use but different method of use or slightly different non-obj skills)
-Alt weapon choice types per loadout (again balanced; think of replacing your gun1 on conker with a balanced alternative)[/QUOTE]

The original topic of this thread was gun customization/attachments, and that is what I’d guess many of the naysayers are referring to. I would guess everything else you listed there, alt weapons, alt loadouts, etc, most people don’t have any problem with. It’s only attachments they are against.
They are saying that why have these small attachments that blur the lines between guns, when you could just have many different guns, and everyone always knows how they work. And I for one think it would be more interesting for the buyer if the things you buy from a shop are actual different guns, rather than attachments. There is almost no limit to how many guns you can have, and if some guns have only slight differences, with a difference comparable to attachments in other games, you can justify it by having “families” of guns.

(acQu) #40

[QUOTE=Maca;430035]The original topic of this thread was gun customization/attachments, and that is what I’d guess many of the naysayers are referring to. I would guess everything else you listed there, alt weapons, alt loadouts, etc, most people don’t have any problem with. It’s only attachments they are against.
They are saying that why have these small attachments that blur the lines between guns, when you could just have many different guns, and everyone always knows how they work. And I for one think it would be more interesting for the buyer if the things you buy from a shop are actual different guns, rather than attachments. There is almost no limit to how many guns you can have, and if some guns are very similar, with a difference comparable to attachments in other games, you can justify it by having “families” of guns.[/QUOTE]

The fully customizable weapons system, if that is what you mean, was just an extreme example. I actually also do not want to have total chaos in the weapon system, there needs to be a solid and unique base for every weapon. Else you will create a whole new game, because such systems are actually very awesome and addicting and … err … ‘different’, but won’t fit into DB game design philosophy. Going mild with such things is no problem imo. Adding such small things later simply add up.

I am also totally against blurring the lines between weapons. Actually i think every weapon should sound and feel unique. Little off: i think this is not even in the current game, many weapons do not feel very different, from sound up to animation and look upt to feel. I hope something is done in that direction in the future.

Have also no problems to discuss alternatives or possibilites for a proper business model. I am probably not the only one who is interested to what SD has in the plans here.