Current pubbing gameplay experience is abysmal.

(Szakalot) #1

Two options currently exist for pubbing in dirty bomb.

  • CMM - more or less balanced games, 2-5 min wait times (including all the lobbies and warmup times) for a 5-15min game.
  • SW server browser - lvl1-200+ free for all, where balance is completely random, games start with 4v7, lvl 100 drops and a lvl2 skyhammer joins, etc. Out of a week of pubbing, I’ve maybe had 2 close games, 2 non-stomps, and rest are complete stomps where I usually switch and try to beat my own time.

We used to have great minlvl servers that were introduced as some ‘temporary fix measure’; but were so widely appreciated that they have stayed for over a year. Now this has been removed and simply does not give me a platform to play the game. I don’t know whose vision it is to mix lvl1-2s with 3 year veterans, but the gameplay is simply shit.

So how about a big fat NO.

(TheStrangerous) #2

I’ve been fearing, how due to low population of DB, the game has entered a death spiral (is that the correct term?), with only the strongest playing the game, giving newcomers a hard time.
Oh, I hope I’m wrong about this.

(ImSploosh) #3

I don’t even find CMM as an option. Too many things I don’t like about it. I do wish we had min servers back for Stopwatch though. Even just min 10 (min 20 was almost never populated in U.S.) helped a lot. There’s a big difference between a low level and a high level, regardless of what anyone says about level does not equate to skill. The experience definitely helps though and eventually, even crappy players like myself can compete with the big dogs based on experience and tactics (well maybe not for myself because all I do is run around with Kiratana making sacrifices and tbagging to satisfy the DB gods). :smiley:

I think DB could do much better without CMM and just apply balancing in the lobby and once someone enters the game. Sure, it’s not going to be perfect, but it will never be perfect.

(Melinder) #4

Just had an 8v8 on Bridge Defence where we had 2 Guardians, 5 Dreiss Arty’s and an Aura. Was actually the most fucked up Dirty Bomb experience of my life.

(B_Montiel) #5

Pretty much any game mode is fucked up due to lack of mitigation between player levels right now. Pubbing is like grass mowing for any experienced player, ranked is polluted bronze being selected in the middle of gold teams… The list goes on and on and CMM was no actual response to this issue.

Put back some level 20 servers, and if possible, some with FF-on…

@ImSploosh said:
I don’t even find CMM as an option. Too many things I don’t like about it. I do wish we had min servers back for Stopwatch though. Even just min 10 (min 20 was almost never populated in U.S.) helped a lot. There’s a big difference between a low level and a high level, regardless of what anyone says about level does not equate to skill. The experience definitely helps though and eventually, even crappy players like myself can compete with the big dogs based on experience and tactics (well maybe not for myself because all I do is run around with Kiratana making sacrifices and tbagging to satisfy the DB gods). :smiley:

I think DB could do much better without CMM and just apply balancing in the lobby and once someone enters the game. Sure, it’s not going to be perfect, but it will never be perfect.

Why would it be ? It never was supposed to segragate experienced players from newcomers. Especially if it’s only based on your last n games and how you placed yourself in those, no matter the level of your enemies and teammates.

(hawkeyeguy99) #6

What’s strange to me is that I have been playing almost exclusively ranked since this season started. I have definitely made my views on how crap ranked is in the past but in this season ranked is actually a better experience for me than pubs. (Mostly due to the no Canerlin lol) In my humble opinion, the introduction of CMM was the death of casual gameplay in Dirty Bomb. The closest thing we have is the cluster that stopwatch server browser is at the moment, which isn’t a ton of fun for anyone. CMM needs a MAJOR rework in my opinion because it killed any sense of community with players (no more playing with a lobby of people you had fun with). It’s just ranked without the rewards so you might as well just played ranked. I hope casual Dirty Bomb makes a comeback, until then, I’ll see you in ranked only pretty much.

(Nail) #7

well, inviting every Tom, Hairy, Dick to PTS ought to liven things up, SD will at least get a shed load of DATA on what people are doing wrong

(Press E) #8

Honestly it’s been the opposite to me. CMM has been horrible and stompy, whereas server browser balance is somehow better most of the time. Still not great, but oh well.
CMM just isn’t casual enough. You can’t stay with your team after the match. I miss objective servers, and I miss min level servers

(ImSploosh) #9

@hawkeyeguy99 said:
What’s strange to me is that I have been playing almost exclusively ranked since this season started. I have definitely made my views on how crap ranked is in the past but in this season ranked is actually a better experience for me than pubs. (Mostly due to the no Canerlin lol) In my humble opinion, the introduction of CMM was the death of casual gameplay in Dirty Bomb. The closest thing we have is the cluster that stopwatch server browser is at the moment, which isn’t a ton of fun for anyone. CMM needs a MAJOR rework in my opinion because it killed any sense of community with players (no more playing with a lobby of people you had fun with). It’s just ranked without the rewards so you might as well just played ranked. I hope casual Dirty Bomb makes a comeback, until then, I’ll see you in ranked only pretty much.

Ayyy me too. I still dislike Ranked, but considering I have no option to play Objective, I can either choose between Stopwatch with rewards or without- I like shiny stuff. Unfortunately, Ranked is so barren it takes 15-30 minutes to find a match any time of the day in the U.S… Sometimes I get lucky, but it’s rare.

Definitely agree with CMM being the death of casual, at least for me anyway. Saddest part is that they removed Execution too which was super casual, but simultaneously intense. It was also the only mode where you could actually show off your skins… You know, last one alive, dropping lasers on defusers while examining your gun and shiny trinket! RIP.

(Cletus_VanDamme) #10

@Nail said:
well, inviting every Tom, Hairy, Dick to PTS ought to liven things up, SD will at least get a shed load of DATA on what people are doing wrong

Well let’s hope so.

Because at the moment they’re simply ignoring the feedback / data they’re getting or the PTS is made up of Timmy, Jimmy and Simple Jack.

(Teflon Love) #11

Once the match making takes long enough, the skill spread in CMM becomes unreal. Unlike in Stopwatch, where you can recognize low level players that cannot yet be expected to act in a reasonable way, in CMM you have to wait and watch for a few spawn cycles to know who in the team you can work with. On defense, this often means a quickly lost 1st objective. And once the leaving starts…

I wish that CMM would make a simple level based initial clustering, for example (exact numbers up for debate):

  • Level 1 - 7: new to the game and overwhelmed
  • Level 8 - 12: getting the hang of it
  • Level 13+: competent or even great

Then players “getting the hang of it” can be matched with everyone while “new” and “competent” player will never be in the same match. After the initial clustering, the existing Elo rating attempts to even out the teams further.

(ThunderZsolt) #12

I don’t know what others expect from CMM (or even ranked MM), there are no wonders.

If I don’t get matched with potatoes who can’t even move and turn at the same time and “human aimbots” who destroy me on sight, I’m happy.

On a side note, there are very few “human aimbots”, so min lvl20 servers solved my problem mostly, but I do believe that CMM creates a better experience for new players, and it is very important to not discourage them, so the playerbase can grow.

(Press E) #13

@ThunderZsolt said:
I don’t know what others expect from CMM (or even ranked MM), there are no wonders.

If I don’t get matched with potatoes who can’t even move and turn at the same time and “human aimbots” who destroy me on sight, I’m happy.

On a side note, there are very few “human aimbots”, so min lvl20 servers solved my problem mostly, but I do believe that CMM creates a better experience for new players, and it is very important to not discourage them, so the playerbase can grow.

I’d expect it to be more balanced than quickjoin was, but it doesn’t seem like it is most of the time. So far almost every CMM match I’ve played was a stomp for one team or the other, so much so I found myself wanting to call a shuffle several times. Very few matches I’ve seen in CMM were close.

I’m not sure how CMM calculates your “rank”, but if it’s anything like ranked matchmaking, it could certainly be a lot better. As long as rank is calculated based off wins and losses rather than personal performance in a game where teams always change, matches will never be as balanced as they should be.

(ThunderZsolt) #14

@STARRYSOCK said:
I’m not sure how CMM calculates your “rank”, but if it’s anything like ranked matchmaking, it could certainly be a lot better. As long as rank is calculated based off wins and losses rather than personal performance in a game where teams always change, matches will never be as balanced as they should be.

I think it will get better with time.
For example in ranked season 2 everyone was in silver, now the ranks are more spread out.

While I agree that W/L is not the best measure of player skill, if everyone plays a lot, good players will have more wins than bad players. Emphasis on playing a lot. Better matchmaking algorythms estimate player skill quicker, and can create balanced games quicker.

However, this requires everyone playing CMM, otherwise the system won’t have data about the players who stick to server browser, so they will still experience even more unbalanced matches.

(TitaniumRapture) #15

I dont understand that obsession with matchmaking in every game. It doesnt work but devs still keep adding that in every damn online FPS game. It is probably nice way to sink some money (well you could have sent me that amount on my bank account). It didnt fix anything (except adding party system and hiding levels but all of that could have been done much easier and cheaper) and only made gaming more anonymous because now you play with total strangers in every match (of course you sometimes meet badass premades 3x in row…)

Just release community servers and we are good to go. Everybody will stay on server where he feels the best. Or are players these days such crybabies not able to join dedicated servers? Is it too complicated for them?

(emjot) #16

I think they should let you choose between 6v6 and 7/8v8, more crowdy server is, the more casual feeling is there.

(TheStrangerous) #17

Like I said in other thread, if they don’t want server browser, then give us “Highlighted Servers” tab, like in FoF.

(Press E) #18

@ThunderZsolt said:

@STARRYSOCK said:
I’m not sure how CMM calculates your “rank”, but if it’s anything like ranked matchmaking, it could certainly be a lot better. As long as rank is calculated based off wins and losses rather than personal performance in a game where teams always change, matches will never be as balanced as they should be.

I think it will get better with time.
For example in ranked season 2 everyone was in silver, now the ranks are more spread out.

While I agree that W/L is not the best measure of player skill, if everyone plays a lot, good players will have more wins than bad players. Emphasis on playing a lot. Better matchmaking algorythms estimate player skill quicker, and can create balanced games quicker.

However, this requires everyone playing CMM, otherwise the system won’t have data about the players who stick to server browser, so they will still experience even more unbalanced matches.

As you said, it’s just not practical for DB at all. Sure, there are ways to slightly improve it, but at its core W/L ratios just can’t give proper balance in a game with unfixed teams.
I remember last season, a couple weeks after the start gave the best balance for me. Afterwards, it seemed that rank became meaningless. People who should have been in bronze were being carried into gold, and sometimes due to sheer luck, rather than just premades, whereas an unlucky person who should have been in cobalt, ended up in silver just because they chose to mostly play solo.

It wasn’t a representation of your skill or rank, it was a representation of your luck with team composition, and still is. It annoys me that we’re in 4th season now, and this still hasn’t been addressed.

(emjot) #19

We should be glad they didn’t work on MM like Activision’s

(Xenithos) #20

@Melinder said:
Just had an 8v8 on Bridge Defence where we had 2 Guardians, 5 Dreiss Arty’s and an Aura. Was actually the most @$!# up Dirty Bomb experience of my life.

The only way to have an 8v8 right now is in custom servers.
Also, that signature is atrocious…