Core problems with game (IN MY OPINION)

[CCP1151]

The thing with Dirty Bomb is that some classes WILL die in a fight with someone else. Aura vs Rhino? Aura should die, unless of course there is a huge level difference. While I can see some counterplay here, it doesn’t make much sense, as on a pub, you will have something along the lines of two rhinos, a couple of Vassilis, and of course the good ol Skyhammer squad.

In TF2, some classes will die in a firefight as well, but there are numerous combat classes that can all hold their own in battle if they’re god enough. Whoever shoots first doesn’t necessarily win. In Dirty Bomb, the really Low TTK doesn’t seems to help much, only a select few mercs atm can really hold their own (Fragger, Rhino, Skyhammer, etc.) while others suffer plenty in fights (Aura, Arty, Sparks) And yea, I know, speed is given for a low health pool.

It is hard to get across my point here, I’m not awfully sure how to say this, but I feel as though… firefights are just somewhat off. There are times in TF2 when I can take down 2 opponents without dying, but in Dirty Bomb, there is so little dodging, so after one firefight, I have to slowly bugger off and find a medic somewhere. Usually as Skyhammer, in a 1v1, I escape with say 10hp. Not enough to engage again, due to the large number of hitscan automatic weapons, so I have to wait it out for a med.

What am I saying here?
-TTK seems low, but insultingly low, as in “Hey look an ene- HA YOU’RE DEAD”
-Automatics are incredibly strong
-Shotguns are also pretty decently strong (small nerf pls)
-There is an abundance of hitscan. I’m not saying remove these or add in projectiles, but I personally can’t take this many
-Speed given for a sacrifice of health makes sense on paper, but ingame is kinda just annoying
-Counterplay seems to want to exist, but in the games current form, is a bit off
-After one firefight, I am rarely on enough health to engage in another (1v1) which is off compared to the likes of TF2 ( which also has healthpacks to keep the game flowing)

So yea. I like this game, and I will keep playing it, but after playing FPS for a number of years, here are somethings which just felt off.

[Serious_Sam]

Lets go in order, shall we? (This is from the “What am I saying here” bit)

-If you’ve ever played CoD or CS:GO, you’ll know that the TTK in this game is just fine. You seem to be experienced with TF2, as I was, but the thing about that is that TF2 does not register headshots unless you are playing Sniper or have the Ambassador as spy. This game does have headshots, but it doesn’t do a CoD and make them insta-kills. Even CS:GO has some automatics that insta-kill on headshot cough AK-47 cough but this game doesn’t.

-Which leads me to your second point. There are automatics in other games that have lower TTKs that will insta-kill on headshot. This game doesn’t do that. You get headshot by an automatic, you’re still probably good to go. You need to be landing headshots back, and making use of cover to make sure you don’t get peppered with bullets. You can’t survive as much of a beating as you can in TF2, but you can survive enough of one to have a fighting chance against an ambush.

-Shotguns have to be powerful up close, because they are entirely useless in mid-long range firefights. It’s only game balance.

-Hitscan can be annoying, but it isn’t like there’s much we can do about it.

-Speed vs HP makes sense on paper and in game. As a fast class, I can kill Rhino, or Rhino can kill me. Depends on skill. It isn’t that unbalanced in most situations.

-Dunno what counterplay is.

-I play a medic, so I just heal myself after rough firefights. Not much to say on it, I haven’t experienced much in the way of being at low health for extended periods.

This game is not TF2. It plays differently. You might need awhile to get used to it. Don’t give up yet.

[watsyurdeal]

I will say that I do not like how we have 5 different classes of mercs, a total of 13 mercscright now and about 8 more on the way. Yet we only get 3, just three.
Which means there will 2 roles you can’t cover, and you gotta hope your team does it for you.

I hope they up the squad count soon, 3 only is already making things tough.

[ThatRandomGuy]

TTK LOW ? DUDEEEEE !!!

You have no idea about games with TTK low…Before DB, i used to play a game with avg ttk of 0.7 secs…

I have killed rhino face to face ,1 on 1 with proxy. Aim for the head…Its not like rhino can headshot you with minigun…jus stay out of extreme CQC n you are fine !

[CCP1151]

[quote=“Serious Sam;31354”]Lets go in order, shall we? (This is from the “What am I saying here” bit)

-If you’ve ever played CoD or CS:GO, you’ll know that the TTK in this game is just fine. You seem to be experienced with TF2, as I was, but the thing about that is that TF2 does not register headshots unless you are playing Sniper or have the Ambassador as spy. This game does have headshots, but it doesn’t do a CoD and make them insta-kills. Even CS:GO has some automatics that insta-kill on headshot cough AK-47 cough but this game doesn’t.

-Which leads me to your second point. There are automatics in other games that have lower TTKs that will insta-kill on headshot. This game doesn’t do that. You get headshot by an automatic, you’re still probably good to go. You need to be landing headshots back, and making use of cover to make sure you don’t get peppered with bullets. You can’t survive as much of a beating as you can in TF2, but you can survive enough of one to have a fighting chance against an ambush.

-Shotguns have to be powerful up close, because they are entirely useless in mid-long range firefights. It’s only game balance.

-Hitscan can be annoying, but it isn’t like there’s much we can do about it.

-Speed vs HP makes sense on paper and in game. As a fast class, I can kill Rhino, or Rhino can kill me. Depends on skill. It isn’t that unbalanced in most situations.

-Dunno what counterplay is.

-I play a medic, so I just heal myself after rough firefights. Not much to say on it, I haven’t experienced much in the way of being at low health for extended periods.

This game is not TF2. It plays differently. You might need awhile to get used to it. Don’t give up yet.[/quote]

-I have played COD and CS:GO, and I have to say ignoring the AK-47 the TTK still seems low, but bearable most of the time. Most. In CS:GO, getting oneshotted was just straight up insulting, there was no chance for retaliation, or an amazing comeback.

-I still think automatics are really strong at the moment. My biggest gripe is accuracy, it seems to outdo anything else by a long mile (except snipers ofc)

-They are very deadly at close range, and at mid range they are a little too deadly imo

-Makes me sad

-I can’t get over this one point. I don’t know what it is, but being incredibly fast just doesn’t cut it with me. Even though I mained Scout back in TF2… maybe some more getting used to :neutral:

-Uhhh… it’s in the name, like Spy is a hard counter for Sniper in TF2, and soft counter to Heavy or something like that. It doesn’t really exist much in DB, and I hope it starts up when more mercs arrive

-The lack of healthpacks is not the immediate problem, it’s just the lack of extended health regen. Yes there is a little bit, and yes there are medic classes, but in pubs getting a nice heal inbetween firefights is hard, and leaves me on low health for a long time, scared to engage as I will probably get OHKOed.

Most of my problems are small I suppose, and I hope the game gets balanced and polished over time. My biggest gripe (apart from automatics accuracy) is the netcode, it seems really jerky, stiff, just bad in general. After playing TF2 and CS:GO, which had meh netcode, DB does seem a bit iffy.

[B_Montiel]

[quote=“extravagentBypass;31933”]
Most of my problems are small I suppose, and I hope the game gets balanced and polished over time. My biggest gripe (apart from automatics accuracy) is the netcode, it seems really jerky, stiff, just bad in general. After playing TF2 and CS:GO, which had meh netcode, DB does seem a bit iffy.[/quote]
Yup, the netcode seems to suck quite good sometimes in this game. But I’d bet it is due to lag compensation set awfully high compared to what the game really needs now with plenty of players. Try to connect on another region to play, you’ll notice that the game is still quite playable with 150+ pings. It was done probably for older beta states where we sometimes had no choice but to connect far away on low populated hours.

Not to mention the tickrate which could be slightly higher and improve the whole experience.

[Solid_Stache_NaC]

[quote=“extravagentBypass;31933”][quote=“Serious Sam;31354”]Lets go in order, shall we? (This is from the “What am I saying here” bit)

-The lack of healthpacks is not the immediate problem, it’s just the lack of extended health regen. Yes there is a little bit, and yes there are medic classes, but in pubs getting a nice heal inbetween firefights is hard, and leaves me on low health for a long time, scared to engage as I will probably get OHKOed.

[/quote]
[/quote]

HP regen used to be nearly as fast as sawbonez’s medkit, it was really stupid and just promoted assault classes more. The HP regen is fine as it is, just camp somewhere for a few seconds and then run to the area you want; by the time you get there you will be full health.

you still can easily get double or triple kills even without the extended HP regen, it just requires good understanding of weapons and the merc you are using.

[elegantRoyalty]

personally i think its good they made design decisions differently to other games it gives us choice in which to play. never understood the argument of “well this other game does this , so everyone should”

I feel the guns are a little to effective and easy to use across the board. the TTK is a bit to uniform and under reliant on skill . giving the combat a bit of a rock/paper/scissor feel but again these are all design choices making it more a team based game than a solo friendly one. there not wrong i just would of done it differently.

[Amerika]

[quote=“elegantRoyalty;31997”]personally i think its good they made design decisions differently to other games it gives us choice in which to play. never understood the argument of “well this other game does this , so everyone should”

I feel the guns are a little to effective and easy to use across the board. the TTK is a bit to uniform and under reliant on skill . giving the combat a bit of a rock/paper/scissor feel but again these are all design choices making it more a team based game than a solo friendly one. there not wrong i just would of done it differently.[/quote]

I don’t feel the combat is rock, paper, scissors at all. There are classes that can more easily counter other classes but they are not required. Assuming that is what you meant anyway. The guns are easier to use for the most part compared to CSGO since you don’t have to spend quite a bit of time learning the ins and outs of each gun. However, what you do have to learn, and this is due to TTK being high, is how to be very very consistent in many situations with your aim in order to produce high end results while firing. So the guns are easier to use but the time on target and where you have to fire is extremely important. In a firefight whoever hits more headshots wins and if you can hit mostly headshots you can take down a few people in a row who didn’t.

So I enjoy the combat in this game as it relies a lot on exact mouse positioning and keeping it there compared to learning how wonky the gun you’re using is. I like CS and have played it for years but it definitely relies just as much on understanding gun mechanics than pure aim.

[elegantRoyalty]

[quote=“Amerika;32019”][quote=“elegantRoyalty;31997”]personally i think its good they made design decisions differently to other games it gives us choice in which to play. never understood the argument of “well this other game does this , so everyone should”

I feel the guns are a little to effective and easy to use across the board. the TTK is a bit to uniform and under reliant on skill . giving the combat a bit of a rock/paper/scissor feel but again these are all design choices making it more a team based game than a solo friendly one. there not wrong i just would of done it differently.[/quote]

I don’t feel the combat is rock, paper, scissors at all. There are classes that can more easily counter other classes but they are not required. Assuming that is what you meant anyway. The guns are easier to use for the most part compared to CSGO since you don’t have to spend quite a bit of time learning the ins and outs of each gun. However, what you do have to learn, and this is due to TTK being high, is how to be very very consistent in many situations with your aim in order to produce high end results while firing. So the guns are easier to use but the time on target and where you have to fire is extremely important. In a firefight whoever hits more headshots wins and if you can hit mostly headshots you can take down a few people in a row who didn’t.

So I enjoy the combat in this game as it relies a lot on exact mouse positioning and keeping it there compared to learning how wonky the gun you’re using is. I like CS and have played it for years but it definitely relies just as much on understanding gun mechanics than pure aim.[/quote]

it just seems to me the guns are all just a bit too easy to use meaning a lot of people dont ever miss so the winner of a lot of fights comes down to current TTK rather than skill because the skill thresholds too low. i just think if the ttk was a bit longer if guns had more spread under full auto or players moved a bit faster skill would have more room to be a factor as it stands it is a bit too often decided by either who sees the other first or who has the most health.

i get why they did it and dont think its wrong , 2v1 is far more important than skill vs skill and thats a valid choice in a team oriented objective game id just like to see it a little the other way. but again purely my opinion.

[Amerika]

[quote=“elegantRoyalty;32034”][quote=“Amerika;32019”][quote=“elegantRoyalty;31997”]personally i think its good they made design decisions differently to other games it gives us choice in which to play. never understood the argument of “well this other game does this , so everyone should”

I feel the guns are a little to effective and easy to use across the board. the TTK is a bit to uniform and under reliant on skill . giving the combat a bit of a rock/paper/scissor feel but again these are all design choices making it more a team based game than a solo friendly one. there not wrong i just would of done it differently.[/quote]

I don’t feel the combat is rock, paper, scissors at all. There are classes that can more easily counter other classes but they are not required. Assuming that is what you meant anyway. The guns are easier to use for the most part compared to CSGO since you don’t have to spend quite a bit of time learning the ins and outs of each gun. However, what you do have to learn, and this is due to TTK being high, is how to be very very consistent in many situations with your aim in order to produce high end results while firing. So the guns are easier to use but the time on target and where you have to fire is extremely important. In a firefight whoever hits more headshots wins and if you can hit mostly headshots you can take down a few people in a row who didn’t.

So I enjoy the combat in this game as it relies a lot on exact mouse positioning and keeping it there compared to learning how wonky the gun you’re using is. I like CS and have played it for years but it definitely relies just as much on understanding gun mechanics than pure aim.[/quote]

it just seems to me the guns are all just a bit too easy to use meaning a lot of people dont ever miss so the winner of a lot of fights comes down to current TTK rather than skill because the skill thresholds too low. i just think if the ttk was a bit longer if guns had more spread under full auto or players moved a bit faster skill would have more room to be a factor as it stands it is a bit too often decided by either who sees the other first or who has the most health.

i get why they did it and dont think its wrong , 2v1 is far more important than skill vs skill and thats a valid choice in a team oriented objective game id just like to see it a little the other way. but again purely my opinion.[/quote]

Wait, the skill threshold is too low because some people don’t miss? I mean, that’s part of the skill. To train yourself to hit headshots in many different situations. And this game definitely isn’t “who sees who first”. Not even remotely close and there is almost no other game that has a higher TTK than DB even considering the accurate weapons. In games like Cod/BF if you’re seen first you pretty much die. You can’t whip a 180 and score more shots/headshots and win that fight in most circumstances if both players know how to play fairly well. In DB, much like CS, if a mistake is made by the player who initiated combat then the other player has a chance of winning and it’s much higher than in almost any other game. Mistakes in CS usually come down to not gauging how your weapon is working at the range you fired. Mistakes in DB is mostly a bit of the same but less emphasis combined with raw aim.

In this game it’s pretty common to win a 2v1 or 3v1 when the 1 has much better aim than the others. It’s pretty much like Q3 in that respect. Aiming ability and consistency with that aim (both in accuracy and time on target) is what wins match-ups.

[brawnyJester]

Classes definitely have disadvantages in 1v1 vs eachother in TF2.

A scout will almost always win vs a demo at a high lvl and etc.

Soldiers should win more vs scouts at a high lvl.

However these are just disadvantageous matchups and aren’t set in stone like rock paper scissors. Much like Dirtybomb this comes with the territory of making a classbased fps game. However it’s not as bad in DB as support classes sometimes get the same primarys as combat classes.

Also TTK in TF2 isn’t that much different than DB just that it’s much easier hitting people with LG type tracking weapons rather than projectiles(which most of the combat classes in tf2 are)

A close range rocket is close to 1 shotting a scout

2 solid meatshots from a scout takes out most classes.

TTK is only measured by how long you live from taking sustained damage not factoring in movement capabilities and accuracy issues from human input

[elegantRoyalty]

[quote=“Amerika;32066”][quote=“elegantRoyalty;32034”][quote=“Amerika;32019”][quote=“elegantRoyalty;31997”]personally i think its good they made design decisions differently to other games it gives us choice in which to play. never understood the argument of “well this other game does this , so everyone should”

I feel the guns are a little to effective and easy to use across the board. the TTK is a bit to uniform and under reliant on skill . giving the combat a bit of a rock/paper/scissor feel but again these are all design choices making it more a team based game than a solo friendly one. there not wrong i just would of done it differently.[/quote]

I don’t feel the combat is rock, paper, scissors at all. There are classes that can more easily counter other classes but they are not required. Assuming that is what you meant anyway. The guns are easier to use for the most part compared to CSGO since you don’t have to spend quite a bit of time learning the ins and outs of each gun. However, what you do have to learn, and this is due to TTK being high, is how to be very very consistent in many situations with your aim in order to produce high end results while firing. So the guns are easier to use but the time on target and where you have to fire is extremely important. In a firefight whoever hits more headshots wins and if you can hit mostly headshots you can take down a few people in a row who didn’t.

So I enjoy the combat in this game as it relies a lot on exact mouse positioning and keeping it there compared to learning how wonky the gun you’re using is. I like CS and have played it for years but it definitely relies just as much on understanding gun mechanics than pure aim.[/quote]

it just seems to me the guns are all just a bit too easy to use meaning a lot of people dont ever miss so the winner of a lot of fights comes down to current TTK rather than skill because the skill thresholds too low. i just think if the ttk was a bit longer if guns had more spread under full auto or players moved a bit faster skill would have more room to be a factor as it stands it is a bit too often decided by either who sees the other first or who has the most health.

i get why they did it and dont think its wrong , 2v1 is far more important than skill vs skill and thats a valid choice in a team oriented objective game id just like to see it a little the other way. but again purely my opinion.[/quote]

Wait, the skill threshold is too low because some people don’t miss? I mean, that’s part of the skill. To train yourself to hit headshots in many different situations. And this game definitely isn’t “who sees who first”. Not even remotely close and there is almost no other game that has a higher TTK than DB even considering the accurate weapons. In games like Cod/BF if you’re seen first you pretty much die. You can’t whip a 180 and score more shots/headshots and win that fight in most circumstances if both players know how to play fairly well. In DB, much like CS, if a mistake is made by the player who initiated combat then the other player has a chance of winning and it’s much higher than in almost any other game. Mistakes in CS usually come down to not gauging how your weapon is working at the range you fired. Mistakes in DB is mostly a bit of the same but less emphasis combined with raw aim.

In this game it’s pretty common to win a 2v1 or 3v1 when the 1 has much better aim than the others. It’s pretty much like Q3 in that respect. Aiming ability and consistency with that aim (both in accuracy and time on target) is what wins match-ups.[/quote]

well no the skill threshold is too low because of how few people miss , aiming is about as hard as clicking on a desktop icon in this game , hit scan low recoil no real spread etc.

/shrug from my experience it is very who sees who first , sure when the other guys are bad you can kill the whole team at once, but in an even setting between equal skill first to fire matters a lot more than i like in this game. i dont play cod/bf that whole modern military shooter or (spunkgarglewee if your a ZP fan ;)) are just tedious to me. again personal pinion if its your thing grats. the games i came up on had much longer TTK than DB does, this games closer to CS than it is to the old shooters like Q1 and Q2 (ctf’s) which are my yardsticks.

we are discussing entirely subjective points of view here its not like either of us is right or wrong we just like things that are different is all.

[brawnyJester]

You come from arena shooters and want MORE recoil and most likely random spread? (lol ok dude)

Pick up the dreiss and spam it

Or play cs:blow which is the total antithesis of your “yardsticks”

[Amerika]

[quote=“elegantRoyalty;32119”][quote=“Amerika;32066”][quote=“elegantRoyalty;32034”][quote=“Amerika;32019”][quote=“elegantRoyalty;31997”]personally i think its good they made design decisions differently to other games it gives us choice in which to play. never understood the argument of “well this other game does this , so everyone should”

I feel the guns are a little to effective and easy to use across the board. the TTK is a bit to uniform and under reliant on skill . giving the combat a bit of a rock/paper/scissor feel but again these are all design choices making it more a team based game than a solo friendly one. there not wrong i just would of done it differently.[/quote]

I don’t feel the combat is rock, paper, scissors at all. There are classes that can more easily counter other classes but they are not required. Assuming that is what you meant anyway. The guns are easier to use for the most part compared to CSGO since you don’t have to spend quite a bit of time learning the ins and outs of each gun. However, what you do have to learn, and this is due to TTK being high, is how to be very very consistent in many situations with your aim in order to produce high end results while firing. So the guns are easier to use but the time on target and where you have to fire is extremely important. In a firefight whoever hits more headshots wins and if you can hit mostly headshots you can take down a few people in a row who didn’t.

So I enjoy the combat in this game as it relies a lot on exact mouse positioning and keeping it there compared to learning how wonky the gun you’re using is. I like CS and have played it for years but it definitely relies just as much on understanding gun mechanics than pure aim.[/quote]

it just seems to me the guns are all just a bit too easy to use meaning a lot of people dont ever miss so the winner of a lot of fights comes down to current TTK rather than skill because the skill thresholds too low. i just think if the ttk was a bit longer if guns had more spread under full auto or players moved a bit faster skill would have more room to be a factor as it stands it is a bit too often decided by either who sees the other first or who has the most health.

i get why they did it and dont think its wrong , 2v1 is far more important than skill vs skill and thats a valid choice in a team oriented objective game id just like to see it a little the other way. but again purely my opinion.[/quote]

Wait, the skill threshold is too low because some people don’t miss? I mean, that’s part of the skill. To train yourself to hit headshots in many different situations. And this game definitely isn’t “who sees who first”. Not even remotely close and there is almost no other game that has a higher TTK than DB even considering the accurate weapons. In games like Cod/BF if you’re seen first you pretty much die. You can’t whip a 180 and score more shots/headshots and win that fight in most circumstances if both players know how to play fairly well. In DB, much like CS, if a mistake is made by the player who initiated combat then the other player has a chance of winning and it’s much higher than in almost any other game. Mistakes in CS usually come down to not gauging how your weapon is working at the range you fired. Mistakes in DB is mostly a bit of the same but less emphasis combined with raw aim.

In this game it’s pretty common to win a 2v1 or 3v1 when the 1 has much better aim than the others. It’s pretty much like Q3 in that respect. Aiming ability and consistency with that aim (both in accuracy and time on target) is what wins match-ups.[/quote]

well no the skill threshold is too low because of how few people miss , aiming is about as hard as clicking on a desktop icon in this game , hit scan low recoil no real spread etc.

/shrug from my experience it is very who sees who first , sure when the other guys are bad you can kill the whole team at once, but in an even setting between equal skill first to fire matters a lot more than i like in this game. i dont play cod/bf that whole modern military shooter or (spunkgarglewee if your a ZP fan ;)) are just tedious to me. again personal pinion if its your thing grats. the games i came up on had much longer TTK than DB does, this games closer to CS than it is to the old shooters like Q1 and Q2 (ctf’s) which are my yardsticks.

we are discussing entirely subjective points of view here its not like either of us is right or wrong we just like things that are different is all.
[/quote]

I’m simply trying to understand your viewpoint which, IMO, has been a bit contradictory given what you’ve stated. I’m simply wondering what you’re comparing to when you say the game is “who sees who first”. Typically, when a person says that, they mean CoD/BF or some other arcade shooter or sim shooter (two different things but CoD and Arma are similar in that regard). DB has a much higher TTK and requires headshots to do it quickly which leaves quite a bit of time for a player who was seen first to react and potentially win by comparison to the games I mentioned. The time that you get is similar to other games like Soldier of Fortune 2, Counter-Strike or Wolf/ET. Player who shoots first always has an advantage in every game but the difference is that there is a chance, even when player skills are even, that the player being shot still has a chance to react IF the first player screws up (in the case of DB, doesn’t score headshots immediately).

I would like to know what you’re comparing to is all. The reason is most people consider DB to be as I described…a shooter that is less who sees who first and more about raw aim with placement and weapon knowledge.

DB guns work a LOT like the LG from Q3/Qlive except you actually have to hit the head and you do have to account for bloom, recoil and individual gun mechanics.

[elegantRoyalty]

[quote=“Amerika;32189”][quote=“elegantRoyalty;32119”][quote=“Amerika;32066”][quote=“elegantRoyalty;32034”][quote=“Amerika;32019”][quote=“elegantRoyalty;31997”]personally i think its good they made design decisions differently to other games it gives us choice in which to play. never understood the argument of “well this other game does this , so everyone should”

I feel the guns are a little to effective and easy to use across the board. the TTK is a bit to uniform and under reliant on skill . giving the combat a bit of a rock/paper/scissor feel but again these are all design choices making it more a team based game than a solo friendly one. there not wrong i just would of done it differently.[/quote]

I don’t feel the combat is rock, paper, scissors at all. There are classes that can more easily counter other classes but they are not required. Assuming that is what you meant anyway. The guns are easier to use for the most part compared to CSGO since you don’t have to spend quite a bit of time learning the ins and outs of each gun. However, what you do have to learn, and this is due to TTK being high, is how to be very very consistent in many situations with your aim in order to produce high end results while firing. So the guns are easier to use but the time on target and where you have to fire is extremely important. In a firefight whoever hits more headshots wins and if you can hit mostly headshots you can take down a few people in a row who didn’t.

So I enjoy the combat in this game as it relies a lot on exact mouse positioning and keeping it there compared to learning how wonky the gun you’re using is. I like CS and have played it for years but it definitely relies just as much on understanding gun mechanics than pure aim.[/quote]

it just seems to me the guns are all just a bit too easy to use meaning a lot of people dont ever miss so the winner of a lot of fights comes down to current TTK rather than skill because the skill thresholds too low. i just think if the ttk was a bit longer if guns had more spread under full auto or players moved a bit faster skill would have more room to be a factor as it stands it is a bit too often decided by either who sees the other first or who has the most health.

i get why they did it and dont think its wrong , 2v1 is far more important than skill vs skill and thats a valid choice in a team oriented objective game id just like to see it a little the other way. but again purely my opinion.[/quote]

Wait, the skill threshold is too low because some people don’t miss? I mean, that’s part of the skill. To train yourself to hit headshots in many different situations. And this game definitely isn’t “who sees who first”. Not even remotely close and there is almost no other game that has a higher TTK than DB even considering the accurate weapons. In games like Cod/BF if you’re seen first you pretty much die. You can’t whip a 180 and score more shots/headshots and win that fight in most circumstances if both players know how to play fairly well. In DB, much like CS, if a mistake is made by the player who initiated combat then the other player has a chance of winning and it’s much higher than in almost any other game. Mistakes in CS usually come down to not gauging how your weapon is working at the range you fired. Mistakes in DB is mostly a bit of the same but less emphasis combined with raw aim.

In this game it’s pretty common to win a 2v1 or 3v1 when the 1 has much better aim than the others. It’s pretty much like Q3 in that respect. Aiming ability and consistency with that aim (both in accuracy and time on target) is what wins match-ups.[/quote]

well no the skill threshold is too low because of how few people miss , aiming is about as hard as clicking on a desktop icon in this game , hit scan low recoil no real spread etc.

/shrug from my experience it is very who sees who first , sure when the other guys are bad you can kill the whole team at once, but in an even setting between equal skill first to fire matters a lot more than i like in this game. i dont play cod/bf that whole modern military shooter or (spunkgarglewee if your a ZP fan ;)) are just tedious to me. again personal pinion if its your thing grats. the games i came up on had much longer TTK than DB does, this games closer to CS than it is to the old shooters like Q1 and Q2 (ctf’s) which are my yardsticks.

we are discussing entirely subjective points of view here its not like either of us is right or wrong we just like things that are different is all.
[/quote]

I’m simply trying to understand your viewpoint which, IMO, has been a bit contradictory given what you’ve stated. I’m simply wondering what you’re comparing to when you say the game is “who sees who first”. Typically, when a person says that, they mean CoD/BF or some other arcade shooter or sim shooter (two different things but CoD and Arma are similar in that regard). DB has a much higher TTK and requires headshots to do it quickly which leaves quite a bit of time for a player who was seen first to react and potentially win by comparison to the games I mentioned. The time that you get is similar to other games like Soldier of Fortune 2, Counter-Strike or Wolf/ET. Player who shoots first always has an advantage in every game but the difference is that there is a chance, even when player skills are even, that the player being shot still has a chance to react IF the first player screws up (in the case of DB, doesn’t score headshots immediately).

I would like to know what you’re comparing to is all. The reason is most people consider DB to be as I described…a shooter that is less who sees who first and more about raw aim with placement and weapon knowledge.

DB guns work a LOT like the LG from Q3/Qlive except you actually have to hit the head and you do have to account for bloom, recoil and individual gun mechanics.[/quote]

ok , i think the time to kill in DB is too fast across the board, i think the weapons are too easy to use as in its very easy to hit , im comparing it to q2 ctf which was really the last team objective style fps i really got into , in that we had hit scans to but they all had serious penalties all needed to be used in the right way at the right time , which is true in DB to a degree just less so. Q2 ctf also had non hit scan weapons and these tended to be the more effective ones, rockets, grenades, hyper blaster and of course the ol bfg

compared to the long duels between people who had shields Armour and over charged health pools the fights in db seem very fast to me, i guess the thing confusing people is ive been out of this scene for a couple of decades and when i say old games its making them think of the wrong ones.

im just an old dinosaur out of time

[avidCow]

So I have to wait it out for a med.

No need for walls of text; there’s your problem. One good medic that has your back willshould change the way you play the game.

[Szakalot]

it was hard to read after

there is so little dodging

[Amerika]

[quote=“Amerika;32189”][quote=“elegantRoyalty;32119”][quote=“Amerika;32066”][quote=“elegantRoyalty;32034”][quote=“Amerika;32019”][quote=“elegantRoyalty;31997”]personally i think its good they made design decisions differently to other games it gives us choice in which to play. never understood the argument of “well this other game does this , so everyone should”

I feel the guns are a little to effective and easy to use across the board. the TTK is a bit to uniform and under reliant on skill . giving the combat a bit of a rock/paper/scissor feel but again these are all design choices making it more a team based game than a solo friendly one. there not wrong i just would of done it differently.[/quote]

I don’t feel the combat is rock, paper, scissors at all. There are classes that can more easily counter other classes but they are not required. Assuming that is what you meant anyway. The guns are easier to use for the most part compared to CSGO since you don’t have to spend quite a bit of time learning the ins and outs of each gun. However, what you do have to learn, and this is due to TTK being high, is how to be very very consistent in many situations with your aim in order to produce high end results while firing. So the guns are easier to use but the time on target and where you have to fire is extremely important. In a firefight whoever hits more headshots wins and if you can hit mostly headshots you can take down a few people in a row who didn’t.

So I enjoy the combat in this game as it relies a lot on exact mouse positioning and keeping it there compared to learning how wonky the gun you’re using is. I like CS and have played it for years but it definitely relies just as much on understanding gun mechanics than pure aim.[/quote]

it just seems to me the guns are all just a bit too easy to use meaning a lot of people dont ever miss so the winner of a lot of fights comes down to current TTK rather than skill because the skill thresholds too low. i just think if the ttk was a bit longer if guns had more spread under full auto or players moved a bit faster skill would have more room to be a factor as it stands it is a bit too often decided by either who sees the other first or who has the most health.

i get why they did it and dont think its wrong , 2v1 is far more important than skill vs skill and thats a valid choice in a team oriented objective game id just like to see it a little the other way. but again purely my opinion.[/quote]

Wait, the skill threshold is too low because some people don’t miss? I mean, that’s part of the skill. To train yourself to hit headshots in many different situations. And this game definitely isn’t “who sees who first”. Not even remotely close and there is almost no other game that has a higher TTK than DB even considering the accurate weapons. In games like Cod/BF if you’re seen first you pretty much die. You can’t whip a 180 and score more shots/headshots and win that fight in most circumstances if both players know how to play fairly well. In DB, much like CS, if a mistake is made by the player who initiated combat then the other player has a chance of winning and it’s much higher than in almost any other game. Mistakes in CS usually come down to not gauging how your weapon is working at the range you fired. Mistakes in DB is mostly a bit of the same but less emphasis combined with raw aim.

In this game it’s pretty common to win a 2v1 or 3v1 when the 1 has much better aim than the others. It’s pretty much like Q3 in that respect. Aiming ability and consistency with that aim (both in accuracy and time on target) is what wins match-ups.[/quote]

well no the skill threshold is too low because of how few people miss , aiming is about as hard as clicking on a desktop icon in this game , hit scan low recoil no real spread etc.

/shrug from my experience it is very who sees who first , sure when the other guys are bad you can kill the whole team at once, but in an even setting between equal skill first to fire matters a lot more than i like in this game. i dont play cod/bf that whole modern military shooter or (spunkgarglewee if your a ZP fan ;)) are just tedious to me. again personal pinion if its your thing grats. the games i came up on had much longer TTK than DB does, this games closer to CS than it is to the old shooters like Q1 and Q2 (ctf’s) which are my yardsticks.

we are discussing entirely subjective points of view here its not like either of us is right or wrong we just like things that are different is all.

I’m simply trying to understand your viewpoint which, IMO, has been a bit contradictory given what you’ve stated. I’m simply wondering what you’re comparing to when you say the game is “who sees who first”. Typically, when a person says that, they mean CoD/BF or some other arcade shooter or sim shooter (two different things but CoD and Arma are similar in that regard). DB has a much higher TTK and requires headshots to do it quickly which leaves quite a bit of time for a player who was seen first to react and potentially win by comparison to the games I mentioned. The time that you get is similar to other games like Soldier of Fortune 2, Counter-Strike or Wolf/ET. Player who shoots first always has an advantage in every game but the difference is that there is a chance, even when player skills are even, that the player being shot still has a chance to react IF the first player screws up (in the case of DB, doesn’t score headshots immediately).

I would like to know what you’re comparing to is all. The reason is most people consider DB to be as I described…a shooter that is less who sees who first and more about raw aim with placement and weapon knowledge.

DB guns work a LOT like the LG from Q3/Qlive except you actually have to hit the head and you do have to account for bloom, recoil and individual gun mechanics.[/quote]

ok , i think the time to kill in DB is too fast across the board, i think the weapons are too easy to use as in its very easy to hit , im comparing it to q2 ctf which was really the last team objective style fps i really got into , in that we had hit scans to but they all had serious penalties all needed to be used in the right way at the right time , which is true in DB to a degree just less so. Q2 ctf also had non hit scan weapons and these tended to be the more effective ones, rockets, grenades, hyper blaster and of course the ol bfg

compared to the long duels between people who had shields Armour and over charged health pools the fights in db seem very fast to me, i guess the thing confusing people is ive been out of this scene for a couple of decades and when i say old games its making them think of the wrong ones.

im just an old dinosaur out of time ;)[/quote]

Oh, well that makes more sense. You’re talking about a completely different game that is 15 years old that has tons of HP. I don’t compare fights in DB to Q3 fights because they are completely different games. You’re entitled to your opinion but if you want super long fights where people have 200 armor/200hp you just aren’t going to get it with this type of game. This game has extremely high TTK compared to most similar non-arena shooters where you can get extra hp/shields. If everyone had 200/200 it would be insane. Dirty Bomb is a lot more like Action Quake 2, Action Quake 3 and Urban Terror (from back in the day…not today’s abomination) than it is like Q2/Q3.

[CCP1151]

[quote=“avidCow;32211”]So I have to wait it out for a med.

No need for walls of text; there’s your problem. One good medic that has your back willshould change the way you play the game. [/quote]

Pubs. Thats all I have to say.

[quote=“Szakalot;32233”]it was hard to read after

there is so little dodging

[/quote]

A, D, Jump, maybe wall jumping if there happens to be one nearby that’s viable. Hitscan. Low spread, low recoil. There is dodging, but it is so easy to counter. Even if there is dodging, it seems to be more or less pointless. If you can land shots, then you can. Dodging doesn’t affect it much, head levels stay the same most of the time, like CS:GO.