Container city & fixing crane: Allow this to be done anytime

(BJBlaskowitz) #1

I think the offensive team should be allowed to fix the crane/Blow the safe before the Bot is fully escorted. I have been able to sneak past the “fight” and get to the crane, but the game won’t let you fix it til the rest of the Obj. is done. If I remember correctly ET allowed these type of things (RTCW definitely did…think Tram). The crane is kinda contrived IMO.

Blowing the initial gate is a primary obj, but its obviously not the only way to get past the defense. Allowing the other primary OBJs to be done, can pull defensive players away from the battle to allow the bot escorters a little let up to get their job done. It’s kinda linear the way it is now. There was nothing like playing Fuel Dump in ET and getting past the defense with an engineer and operative in disguse to blow up the objective, while the defenders camping the tank were like “wut?”. They also had the option to spawn in the middle or back. It was no easy feat, but rewarding as hell. Or boosting over the wall in Beach on RTCW and steal the documents without even blowing the wall or door. These were never super easy to pull off, but were so rewarding when you did.

There are a few maps that are just bottlenecks and too easy to defend in the linear fashion they are now. An operative should be able to sneak by and hack the boxes before the primary objectives are done and steal the documents (and the defense shouldn’t be able to remove the hackboxes…competitive clans are apparently not allowing the rebuilding of the hackbox.). Either that or shorten the hack time to like 7-10 seconds maybe?

What say you? I know some other maps could allow this too, but I can’t remember the names and they kinda blend together.

(Shinta) #2

Completely agree. I wish the maps were more dynamic.

(Scip) #3

  1. fixing the crane is by far the most easiest task on this map. so, in this specific case it wouldnt make much difference anyway

  2. i already see attacking teams win on all maps. so why do you think it should be even easier for the attacking team?

(Zekariah) #4

I agree, but with the condition that the fixing of the crane be reversible. Or same with the cracking of a safe. Its all well and good for the offensive to have it permanent, but the defensive are left with a gaping hole in their gameplan.

(BJBlaskowitz) #5

Yes good idea and completely fair option.

(BJBlaskowitz) #6

[QUOTE=Scip;311398]1. fixing the crane is by far the most easiest task on this map. so, in this specific case it wouldnt make much difference anyway

  1. i already see attacking teams win on all maps. so why do you think it should be even easier for the attacking team?[/QUOTE]

Well It depends. Can be a b!tch if your playing with bots or noobs on your team. I’ve been locked there before even with a good team though. It’s not the hardest obj in the game, but not exactly easy most of the time. There is one map where you have to hack the box (airport terminal?) and that is a tough one to win for the attackers, when you have turrets, caltrops & mines everywhere and getting spammed by heavies and continuous respawns.

Plus as it is the operative has little use half the time and this would allow them to be a more sneaky and more valuable class (risk/reward). I liked how in ET you have to capture a uniform to sneak past a locked door, rather than just hop over containers with any class. Would keep with the teamwork aspect.

I think defending is always the easier option (which is fair in stopwatch mode), but having the option for a quicker win is a positive IMO and makes the game more dynamic. I’ve been on teams that kept the attacking team from never passing the first objective the entire game. I know its no fun for the attackers. Say you have 2-3 guys who are decent and 5 noobs, then you have the option to leapfrog the first barrier and take the final obj.

(iFork) #7

Opposing team should be able to blow the controls up with a satchel if the crane is enabled :smiley:

(Calelith) #8

Only if they allow repairing to be undone like hacking.

Defense against real players is hard enough without having to spread yourself even thinner to cover objectives behind you.

(tokamak) #9

That´s a brilliant idea. A distraction like that could solve the game getting stuck all the time. And yes the repair should be destructible by a charge. Hacking would take too much effort while a soldier can quickly set it and forget it.

(Wieke) #10

Nah, it doesn’t always make sense given the map’s scenario. Adding this feature to some maps but not others will just be confusing. Not to mention that by providing more than one primary objective will dilute the action across even more places on the map.

(tokamak) #11

The problem with container city is that the action is too concentrated, it’s too easy to…wait for it… contain the security in one spot.

(Wieke) #12

Well isn’t that just caused by the fact that the security spawn point only has one real exit (sure there are two stairs but there next to each other)? This enables the resistance to basically spawn camp them on the open area next to the main gate (helped by the fact that they have 3 separate routes to get to that area while the resistance really only has one).

In order to fix the first bit of container city I think they should just redesign that part of the map so both sides have multiple routes to the primary objective. I think they underestimated how easy it would be for the resistance to push past the barricade and hold on to that area. Maybe they could add some sort of ledge overseeing that area accessible from the security spawn point?

(Acefisher1) #13

The flow of the map is dependent on the current structure. Allowing this to be done early would make the map completely lopsided. The attackers would be able to completely unbalance the team locations and make one or the other of the objects impossible to hold.

I’ve found the crane repair to be extremely easy as it is. I don’t believe I’ve ever gotten stuck on this objective as an attacker. Maybe look into going about this one in other ways. Lets evaluate our own play before blaming the map, game, or mechanics.

(tokamak) #14

Partially, but if a light guy could hop over and prepare the next objective the Resistance would be forced to devote resources to that objective

@Acefisher, the problem is not the crane, the problem is the gate. The crane itself is indeed already too easy.

(BomBaKlaK) #15

Security spawn sucks on container city !!
Spawnkill every time !!! : /

(Wieke) #16

If it was easy for lights to get past the enemy lines during such a stalemate, wouldn’t it be just as easy to flank them? Crushing the resistance hold over the area by attacking them from an unexpected angle? Not sure if it’ll help the spawn killing problem.

The OP also seems to suggest this made possible on all the maps. And while it’s possible this will solve the problem on container city. I wouldn’t be surprised if it unbalanced some of the other maps. All in all it seems like a drastic change to the game’s basic gameplay rules, which might have unintended consequences. More prudent would be to first try and solve it with less drastic measures, limited to the map in question.

(Acefisher1) #17

[QUOTE=BomBaKlaK;312451]Security spawn sucks on container city !!
Spawnkill every time !!! : /[/QUOTE]

The biggest problem here is when the resistance are allowed to camp the righthand path that looks down at the spawn. By cutting them off (keeping someone on this point/pressuring this side) Will alleviate the spawn-killing.

It’s actually a bigger problem having your entire team running to the gate to be gunned down by grenades and gunfire than to have enemies flanking you. Spread out. Use the whole map. Don’t mindlessly run back to the gate every time you play container city. It might happen in a game, but the next time you play that map, don’t do the same thing. Work on what you can do to fix it. And in this case, it’s literally taking the high road and taking the route up the containers. Pressure that side and they will back off.

Again, I have to point out that poor play, and ignoring tactics needs to be evaluated before blaming the map or design of the game.

(BJBlaskowitz) #18

[QUOTE=Acefisher1;312470]
Again, I have to point out that poor play, and ignoring tactics needs to be evaluated before blaming the map or design of the game.[/QUOTE]

My suggestion has nothing to do with the map not feeling balanced or lack of strategy/tactics.
I have found it easy to blow the gate and simultaneously easy to spawn lock the attackers.

If you never played ET/RTCW, then maybe you don’t get it. The whole map is accessible, and I think its stupid you can’t do all the objectives if you manage to slip past the defenses. It wouldn’t drastically change things, because the defense can still destroy the crane anytime too, since the offense still has to escort the stupid bot.

If the defense is doing a good job at the gate, it’s less likely anyone will get by to fix the crane, but on a full server I see no problem if 2-4 players are diverted to the crane temporarily. I sneak by and capture the command center anyways sometimes, might as well be able to fix the crane while I’m there.