CMM balance sucks, please give us Objective servers back

(Begin2018) #1

I am level 65 but when I play CMM, especially alone, I am with/against level 5 players. It’s totally uninteresting.
Add 7v7 and 8v8 Objective servers, it was way better.
Thanks

(Mr.Cuddlesworth) #2

I miss CMM and 8v8 too. I don’t like being stuck playing the same map back to back in Stopwatch.

(Press E) #3

The biggest thing I miss, above everyone else, is staying in the same server with the same people and just having fun together. But CMM doesn’t really allow that. It’s either force a team together, or deal with random people who you’ll be lucky to see again next match.

Stopwatch is just so drawn out that people usually get bored and leave by the end of the match. But being able to meme around in the same objective server was one of my favourite things about DB. It actually felt casual. But now we have whatever this is…

I really hope they go back to obj servers soon. I’m level 100+ and I don’t like CMM, and I honestly don’t know anyone who does.

(ImSploosh) #4

@STARRYSOCK said:
The biggest thing I miss, above everyone else, is staying in the same server with the same people and just having fun together. But CMM doesn’t really allow that. It’s either force a team together, or deal with random people who you’ll be lucky to see again next match.

Stopwatch is just so drawn out that people usually get bored and leave by the end of the match. But being able to meme around in the same objective server was one of my favourite things about DB. It actually felt casual. But now we have whatever this is…

I really hope they go back to obj servers soon. I’m level 100+ and I don’t like CMM, and I honestly don’t know anyone who does.

Agreed. CMM doesn’t feel casual at all. I think Stopwatch has more people playing it than CMM now… At least, more high level people. None of my friends play CMM, they all stick to Ranked and Stopwatch. It sucks too because I liked Obj for its shorter games. I also loved Execution which is gone. I used to only play Stopwatch for missions and now that’s all I play because it’s my only option at this point.

(Press E) #5

@ImSploosh said:

@STARRYSOCK said:
The biggest thing I miss, above everyone else, is staying in the same server with the same people and just having fun together. But CMM doesn’t really allow that. It’s either force a team together, or deal with random people who you’ll be lucky to see again next match.

Stopwatch is just so drawn out that people usually get bored and leave by the end of the match. But being able to meme around in the same objective server was one of my favourite things about DB. It actually felt casual. But now we have whatever this is…

I really hope they go back to obj servers soon. I’m level 100+ and I don’t like CMM, and I honestly don’t know anyone who does.

Agreed. CMM doesn’t feel casual at all. I think Stopwatch has more people playing it than CMM now… At least, more high level people. None of my friends play CMM, they all stick to Ranked and Stopwatch. It sucks too because I liked Obj for its shorter games. I also loved Execution which is gone. I used to only play Stopwatch for missions and now that’s all I play because it’s my only option at this point.

I used to save my stopwatch missions for ranked, and play obj for casual. But now I just have one less reason to play ranked.

(woodchip) #6

The fundamental problem is that Objective is a much superior mode for most server browser purposes.

Stopwatch only made sense when Stopwatch was ‘opt in’. Back then, you could pick Stopwatch servers if you wanted to commit to a 30 minute game with a generally higher level of competition.

In that context, Stopwatch’s many weaknesses could be overlooked for the sake of diversity. Weaknesses like:

  1. Long matches which sometimes include 20 minute stomps where the defender holds the first objective for 15 minutes, 2 of the attackers quit, and the game is more or less a disaster.

  2. Greater susceptibility to the drop-in / drop out variance. Obj has adaptive respawns at least to mitigate this, but in SW there’s nothing. That might’ve made sense when SW was ‘selecting’ for more serious people who were more likely to stay the whole game, but that’s no longer the case.

  3. 1/2 the map diversity / time.

  4. Most games including 2 minutes+ at the end where it is literally impossible for the attackers to win (team 1 scored twice on Chapel, your still repairing the EV with 3 minutes left).

  5. Greater incentive for abusive teamswitching because being on a losing stopwatch team is twice as brutal as a losing Obj team.

Anyway it’s inferior to objective in tons of ways. But those problems were OK when you were choosing to deal with them in order to play a more competitive mode / environment.

Now it’s just inferior. If you play exclusively with Server Browser, the removal of Objective made the game very noticeably worse.

I don’t play CMM either. So much of the joy of this game to me is about hanging out on a server with a stableish group of people who come and go. Don’t see the appeal of vsing some anonymous equally skilled randoms in a 5 minute game. Maybe I’m just old school though.

(bgyoshi) #7

I just rolled through like 2 hours of non-stop CMM last night and really only experienced severe balance problems 3 or 4 times.

I don’t know about everyone else but I think my longest queue time in US West around 8 - 10pm was 70 seconds.

I also get like 3x the amount of shrieks in CMM than I do in Stopwatch since the time between matches is much shorter for me in CMM.

Plus I hate Stopwatch and Ranked. A lot

And honestly, the balance in server browser Stopwatch is far worse than CMM. I can’t count the number of times I join a server, see one team getting stomped, rage quits left and right, and all the new people being added are Level 1 - 8 against the Level 30 - 170 stompers

(Begin2018) #8

@SD : Is it possible to separate new players and old players? At level 67, there is no reason to play with new players who don’t know they can revive teammates while they are medic…

CMM should at least separate players under level 20 and players above. And it probably need more than 2 level tiers : Tier 1-15, Tier 15-30, Tier 30+, something like that.

(Press E) #9

@Begin2018 said:
@SD : Is it possible to separate new players and old players? At level 67, there is no reason to play with new players who don’t know they can revive teammates while they are medic…

CMM should at least separate players under level 20 and players above. And it probably need more than 2 level tiers : Tier 1-15, Tier 15-30, Tier 30+, something like that.

I don’t see why they would. Skills are the only think people should be separated by, it doesn’t matter the level. It is casual after all, playing with new players is part of that. If you don’t like new players, play ranked (at least that’s how it’s supposed to work in theory. In reality ranked is a meme).

Besides, I actually like playing with new players. It gets boring playing with the same high level players so much that you start to memorize their strategies. I’d rather meet new people

(Begin2018) #10

@Starrysock : You’ll meet them when they’ll be level 30+. About Skill and Level, sorry but there is a relation between them, at least at low levels.

3 days ago I got a Skyhammer in my team (multiple times) who didn’t knew he could give ammos. His K/D was something like 2/25, not sure he got lots of fun… Watched his Steam page : played less than 5 hours (I have more than 800)
Today I got a Sawbonez, he didn’t knew he had a defib…

This ruin the game and the fun, for us and them.

(Press E) #11

@Begin2018 said:
@Starrysock : You’ll meet them when they’ll be level 30+. About Skill and Level, sorry but there is a relation between them, at least at low levels.

3 days ago I got a Skyhammer in my team (multiple times) who didn’t knew he could give ammos. His K/D was something like 2/25, not sure he got lots of fun… Watched his Steam page : played less than 5 hours (I have more than 800)
Today I got a Sawbonez, he didn’t knew he had a defib…

This ruin the game and the fun, for us and them.

Most players don’t actually get past level 10 in this game. And a lot of my best steam friends are people who tried out the game for a bit, but either barely played after, or didn’t at all. If they were blocked by level, I would have never met them.
Besides, there’s a big difference between a level 5 skyhammer who is playing an FPS game for their first time, and a level 5 skybro with 4000 hours in tf2.

Sure, new players, in general, usually preform worse than someone with hundreds of hours, but there are so many exceptions that basing a system around only levels is just impractical. And as I said, it’s supposed to be casual. Who cares if you get the occasional clueless skybro

(Szakalot) #12

stopwatch should be CMM as a bridge between casual and ranked. Obj should be the ‘ez’ opt in/out 12-16player-servers random messing around; joined either by server browser or the previous quickplay functionality.

It just seems pointless to queue in CMM lobbies and play a 5-10min obj game.

(Ptiloui) #13

@STARRYSOCK said:
Besides, I actually like playing with new players. It gets boring playing with the same high level players so much that you start to memorize their strategies. I’d rather meet new people

It is fun to watch some new players play. I encountered one that tried to get cover, crouched and all, like if he was playing insurgency or another more “realistic” fps. But more often, it isn’t fun to have those players while you already have a hard time facing good opponents.

(Press E) #14

@Ptiloui said:

@STARRYSOCK said:
Besides, I actually like playing with new players. It gets boring playing with the same high level players so much that you start to memorize their strategies. I’d rather meet new people

It is fun to watch some new players play. I encountered one that tried to get cover, crouched and all, like if he was playing insurgency or another more “realistic” fps. But more often, it isn’t fun to have those players while you already have a hard time facing good opponents.

Well, in theory that’s what ranked should be for. Battlehardened players. In reality it’s pretty bad, but mixing new and old players in casual isn’t bad. Not all of them are memes, and a lot of them can be pretty good.

(ImSploosh) #15

@Szakalot said:
stopwatch should be CMM as a bridge between casual and ranked. Obj should be the ‘ez’ opt in/out 12-16player-servers random messing around; joined either by server browser or the previous quickplay functionality.

It just seems pointless to queue in CMM lobbies and play a 5-10min obj game.

Exactly. CMM should be somewhat of a training ground for Ranked. Objective should be for actual casual play, like how it was with the server browser.

Personally, balance isn’t my main gripe with CMM. The balance will never be perfect, no matter what is done. I’ve never played a game where the balance was perfect. It’s just not going to happen. My problem with CMM is everything else, from the one-off lobbies to the inability to select between U.S. East or West. Then there’s the 6v6 server size (strongly dislike for casual play, I like the chaos), and the wait times. All of the little things add up.

(Begin2018) #16

I found a temporary solution, I set my region to EUROPE - EAST instead of EUROPE - WEST :smiley:

It’s so good to have good old servers back, with 7v7, 8v8 and no searching time :sunglasses:

(Croatia4Lyfe) #17

True, as a level 16 with 226 hrs spent into the game I get much more balanced matches in SB (Server Browser) than in CMM and Ranked. That is, in CMM and Ranked I lose oftenly just because my team doesn’t even bother to defend or attack the objective, and now getting my poor anyway rank (Silver Agent) may become impossible thanks to TDM-only idiots and leavers. Splash Damage, fix your fucking matchmaking system already.