Closed Beta update v30598: Tweaking Stopwatch, Defibs, Mercs, Maps, and more

[shaftz0r]

3 headshots on the fastest body type in the game, compared to her one shot kill really isnt a big deal. that gun is still ridiculous in hallways. the new “sticky bomb” is really just a grenade that he never runs out of and almost insta kills

[RasteRayzeR]

If it does go that route she should lose a mine.

Agreed, and I’d rather have only one mine with a powerful shotgun.

3 headshots on the fastest body type in the game, compared to her one shot kill really isnt a big deal. that gun is still ridiculous in hallways.

The problem is you can’t kill anything anymore with Proxi unless you can anal frag or get really lucky and land all your shots in the head. Otherwise you die in no time thanks to the 75HP. All I’m saying is that Proxi is broken and not fun to play anymore. It’s almost impossible to survive when you can get one shot by any sniper or if you encounter any other merc at a distance. You have to take cover all the time and now even at close range you are let down by the shotgun. I used Proxi in the games that were difficult because I knew I could make the difference with her (I practiced a lot), now I use Nader and spam grenades everywhere instead of tactically planting mines and cover the objectives.

EDIT : somehow I feel I can’t hit anything anymore in this game, and I know I’m not the only one. I wouldn’t say no to a patch dedicated to firing, hit boxes, mag capacities and spread rework

[BAMFana]

I think standardizing movement speeds and hps across body types creates more problems than it solves. Instead of just saying “OK, Proxi has the light female body type so she has to have 75hp and <x> speed”, SD should be saying “OK, Proxi has a shotgun and mines and needs to do so-and-so in combat to be effective, what amount of hp and speed facilitates that?”. Any thoughts about classes or body types defining stats across the board should be abandoned – what’s interesting is creating unique mercs and fun gameplay.

[Mustang]

Agreed, and I’d rather have only one mine with a powerful shotgun.

Well I disagree, mines should be able to be used separately (i.e. you’d need two of them) as an early warning detection and to do just enough damage to lame, but not kill, an entourage so they’d have to think careful about how to proceed. Then of course this also gives you the option to put them both together for a much more powerful impact, but you’d lose the ability to detect the alternative route.

[RasteRayzeR]

Well I disagree, mines should be able to be used separately (i.e. you’d need two of them) as an early warning detection and to do just enough damage to lame, but not kill, an entourage so they’d have to think careful about how to proceed. Then of course this also gives you the option to put them both together for a much more powerful impact, but you’d lose the ability to detect the alternative route.

Many criticize the detection with the mines, but my point is more about the effectiveness of the shotgun which is currently completely nerfed, and with 75 HP it’s impossible to kill anymore unless you’re lucky

[Rex]

[QUOTE=RasteRayzeR;490572]Agreed, and I’d rather have only one mine with a powerful shotgun.

The problem is you can’t kill anything anymore with Proxi unless you can anal frag or get really lucky and land all your shots in the head. Otherwise you die in no time thanks to the 75HP. All I’m saying is that Proxi is broken and not fun to play anymore. It’s almost impossible to survive when you can get one shot by any sniper or if you encounter any other merc at a distance. You have to take cover all the time and now even at close range you are let down by the shotgun. I used Proxi in the games that were difficult because I knew I could make the difference with her (I practiced a lot), now I use Nader and spam grenades everywhere instead of tactically planting mines and cover the objectives.

EDIT : somehow I feel I can’t hit anything anymore in this game, and I know I’m not the only one. I wouldn’t say no to a patch dedicated to firing, hit boxes, mag capacities and spread rework :([/QUOTE]

Many criticize the detection with the mines, but my point is more about the effectiveness of the shotgun which is currently completely nerfed, and with 75 HP it’s impossible to kill anymore unless you’re lucky

Totally agree with RasteRayzeR and no you are not the only one who can’t kill with her anymore . Tested her and couldn’t kill anything as well due to her weaker shotgun now. I think one patch ago she was well balanced.

[RasteRayzeR]

Totally agree with RasteRayzeR and no you are not the only one who can’t kill with her anymore . Tested her and couldn’t kill anything as well due to her weaker shotgun now. I think one patch ago she was well balanced.

Agreed, and I even posted that she was perfect and should not change anymore

[Protekt1]

I still think mines are the most retarded thing in a fps. I would rather see them removed completely.

[shaftz0r]

I still think mines are the most retarded thing in a fps. I would rather see them removed completely.

couldnt agree more. at least in ET you could stop moving when you stepped on them and they wouldnt go off.

i think people are crying because they can no longer get 4 frags in a row with a shotgun. sorry, no weapon can do that. that shotgun used to just annihilate entire groups of people.

[INF3RN0]

I’d like to see the shotguns have some more range capability when ironsighted, otherwise I want mines left as moderate damage/detection/debuffs and Proxy given some more HP to make her more combat viable (rather than buffing the actual weapon). If someone steps on her mines, she could likely still get multi-kills. I can’t complain about not getting randomly killed by the designated bottom dweller simply because they had a shotty. Let’s make it more about rewarding smart play and consistent aim imo.

[RasteRayzeR]

I still think mines are the most retarded thing in a fps. I would rather see them removed completely.

They have a clear strategical purpose and for pub players they are very important. Plus if you remove the mines completely, Proxi has no ability anymore which makes her a deleted merc.

Placing the mines in an interesting and efficient way is not that simple either.

[RasteRayzeR]

[QUOTE=shaftz0r;490650]couldnt agree more. at least in ET you could stop moving when you stepped on them and they wouldnt go off.

i think people are crying because they can no longer get 4 frags in a row with a shotgun. sorry, no weapon can do that. that shotgun used to just annihilate entire groups of people.[/QUOTE]

What about fragger ? You can get 6, 7 or 8 kills streak and you think this is normal ? The shotgun was lethal only at close range at least, which is its purpose. I don’t think this is normal that you have to shoot 3 times with a shotgun to kill when you are standing right next to your target. And the shotgun was not good to go into “groups of people”, not with 75 HP. You had to be careful or extremely good at aiming heads.

EDIT : it’s not because people can’t get 4 kill streaks anymore, it’s because you almost cannot get a single kill with her anymore. Try her, because I don’t think you have.

[Kl3ppy]

I don’t like the concept that 1 merc is per se better than other mercs regarding gunfights. This just forces teams to use a certain merc.

[RasteRayzeR]

I don’t like the concept that 1 merc is per se better than other mercs regarding gunfights. This just forces teams to use a certain merc.

Well, you don’t need to play engi anymore to do the objectives. If Proxi remains as useless as she is in this patch, I’ll simply take the biggest gun and ignore all the other gameplay elements. Pure bruteforce all the way through and I’ll quit after two matches because it’s darn repetitive and boring.

All mercs should be better than others but only for certain ranges, situations, etc. which forces you to make tactical choices. Proxi is currently too low HP to push, not enough fire power to kill at long ranges, not enough power anymore to survive close combat. All she can do is put two low power mines that don’t kill anymore and hope to land a nice shot into a crippled guy to get a frag = lame.

The differences of proficencies should be even harsher than they are, mostly on C4 planting/disarming so that you need either a good engi or a full team work to disarm it. Otherwise the tactical teamplay-based game becomes just a solo shooter, and with the current spread you don’t do just shooting for a very long time.

Just sayin, because Proxi was perfect just one patch ago

[Protekt1]

[QUOTE=RasteRayzeR;490652]They have a clear strategical purpose and for pub players they are very important. Plus if you remove the mines completely, Proxi has no ability anymore which makes her a deleted merc.

Placing the mines in an interesting and efficient way is not that simple either.[/QUOTE]

You mean mines are meant to damage/kill players who are not aware of their position? Sooo strategic.

Using these mines are simple. Only a few games have done mines well enough. Blacklight retribution did mines well, because HRV gave their position away you couldn’t just hide it and hope it is effective. And loadout does it well, at least better than this game because at least you have to aim it like any other gun and additionally it takes up a valuable weapon slot of which you could have a more devastating direct damage weapon equipped.

[Kl3ppy]

@Raster:
That’s what I was trying to say. ATM you just have to take the guy with the biggest/best gun and play. After couple of rounds, your done and stop playing.
I wish we could go back to the class system. I still believe that a class system doesn’t harm any merc sellings. I would buy a merc 1) of the look and 2) because of his abilities. I always assume that the gun power the buyable merc has is on the same level as the other mercs of the class so I theoretically know what he will be like.

[RasteRayzeR]

You mean mines are meant to damage/kill players who are not aware of their position? Sooo strategic.

I mean players are not stupid and know the spots where mines can be landed. You die once on them (provided both mines are there) and then you know you should pay extra attention there. You prevail as Proxi when you find new places to land and use the mines as a combo with your shotgun. That’s what I call skill yes, because you need good knowledge of the maps, of used routes and how to place them correctly to achieve maximum stealth/damage ratio. I can only encourage you to try to think how mines can be more than just a dumb-fragging device, because they are not in the hands of a tactician. To support this you can see that SD has put 2 mines that won’t kill by themselves, but provide detection. Isn’t that strategy ?

But anyway, that’s not my point : the problem is the shotgun here, which in last patch is completely nerfed (in case you haven’t played the new patch yet)

Using these mines are simple. Only a few games have done mines well enough. Blacklight retribution did mines well, because HRV gave their position away you couldn’t just hide it and hope it is effective. And loadout does it well, at least better than this game because at least you have to aim it like any other gun and additionally it takes up a valuable weapon slot of which you could have a more devastating direct damage weapon equipped.

ETQW had the mines too, and they worked very well. I don’t know if you played it but they didn’t had any glowing lights or loud beeps to detect them but they worked in the game, and hell they were the same color as the walls. The reason for it I believe was that you had to arm them manually, thing I did ask for Proxi like many others here in XT. Even more : you had up to 3 mines and if I remember right two were enough to kill. With the size reduction of the maps in XT compared to QW, it’s normal that you get only one or two mines maximum but I see no reason why they should be removed from Proxi, even more that a single mine can’t kill a guy anymore (full hp).

If you can trick a guy into stepping on your mines multiple times and always at the same place, it’s not the mines that are dumb

[shaftz0r]

I mean players are not stupid and know the spots where mines can be landed. You die once on them (provided both mines are there) and then you know you should pay extra attention there. You prevail as Proxi when you find new places to land and use the mines as a combo with your shotgun. That’s what I call skill yes

1- you cant know where mines are because you can literally put them anywhere. there are no limitations in this game. 2- everything i see you type is “omg i need spam weapons that are op so i can get frags” i could concede that she might need a little more hp, or a little more range on the sg, but she was a beast a patch or two ago. you could literally backrage an entire team with one clip. yes you can do the same with fragger in theory, but thats what he’s supposed to do. he’s a fragging class with a huge weapon

[RasteRayzeR]

1- you cant know where mines are because you can literally put them anywhere. there are no limitations in this game. 2- everything i see you type is “omg i need spam weapons that are op so i can get frags” i could concede that she might need a little more hp, or a little more range on the sg, but she was a beast a patch or two ago. you could literally backrage an entire team with one clip. yes you can do the same with fragger in theory, but thats what he’s supposed to do. he’s a fragging class with a huge weapon

Proxi is designed for : close range defense, bait offense. You can take her down easily with 75 HP but she should be able to take you down even faster at close range. Fragger can do that independently of the range, because he’s a soldier as you said. Proxi can’t kill far away, because her role is to engage in close combat for defense. Don’t mix things up. The mines are MORE than visible : beep sound and lights are bigger and heavier than in ETQW and even there I could spot them. It’s only because you don’t pay attention to it because you relinquish the use of such weapons.

And yes, if a player takes her, is smart enough to get close to a group without being spotted, he/she should be able to take down a few guys and make them pay hard. With Proxi you cannot miss more than one shot in this situation, or you end up dead. You cannot run in streets, you end up dead in one sniper shot. You cannot get multi kills with the smg and you die reloading. The mines don’t kill anymore unless you stack both of them together. And to finish, now her shotgun is useless. You don’t see a massive nerfing pattern there ? If you don’t try her in-game, a shotgun should not kill in 3 shots at close range, but in one headshot or two bodyshots top.

You pick on Proxi for getting killing sprees, but each merc should get you to do so if you have the level. Because she’s an engineer she is not allowed to get killing sprees ? And excuse me if I enjoyed Proxi with a real shotgun, because she was actually fun to play with and as I said already, if you go twice on mines at the same place, it’s your fault.

EDIT : adding range on the shotgun would be a mistake, it’s not her role to have range. It should simply be more powerful at very close ranges.

[INF3RN0]

What I don’t ever want to see-> mercs that base combat effectiveness almost entirely on non-player controlled variables. Proxy can be taken in new directions that compliment player ability and don’t just try to justify limited over effectiveness by situational uselessness. After all a sniper is technically more effective at long range, but isn’t limited to it and also requires high precision aim. Think about it.