I don’t like that. All classes should be equally valid to all skill-levels. If a covert is only effective in skilled hands then there’s something wrong with the class.
some of the changes mentioned are pretty out there.
Yeah don’t worry about that. Inferno knows what he’s doing. The point of brainstorming is to explore all possibilities and worry about the implications later. Focussing too much on being critical stifles the creative process.
For now I’m just going to take part in one thing mentioned in places in this thread.
I would be very much in favor of gibbing resulting in no rewards. No health, no ammo, nothing. I am a fan of the idea that all resources come from your team or from yourself. I think that it should be one of the first things to be changed in the current game, because I think it is a really good principle for a team based game, and then everything could be balanced on top of that.
I’m trying to think about something else to say about this, but all that comes to my head is “that it would be really good principle for a team based game”, and I can’t see why it shouldn’t be used
Quite like that idea as well. 
Just been thinking about why there was no rambo Medic in RTCW, and why and how it took ET to turn him from a support class into an attacking class, and I think the key factor is that in RTCW you could not pick up weapons dropped by the other team. Effectively, in ET, just like it is now in DB, a Medic can get back the ammo he expends making a kill (and of course give himself back the health he lost), meaning he’s practically self-sufficient. In RTCW that was not the case, Medics had to rely on a Lt (F/Ops) to re-supply their ammo, and everyone else had to rely on Medics to re-supply their health.
+1 for Maca’s proposal 
edit: In RTCW you could also drop your own weapon, i.e. give your gun away to a team-mate, which you’d sometimes do if neither of you were Medics and you were near death and your team-mate was out of ammo. In ET you can only drop your weapon by picking up someone else’s (iirc). If it was made so you couldn’t pick up an enemies ammo (or gun) I’d suggest adding the option to drop your own weapon as per RTCW.
edit2: In fact, just use RTCW as the baseline! DB would be a much better game than all this complicated who gets what and how it gets distributed when you die.
I also agree with this. Ammo should come from either location control (supply depots) or from the team (field ops). If anyone can get ammo from bodies then the game gets more mushy and flat.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not trashing anything. I’m just worried that the conversation of new concepts and gameplay elements is getting buried by reviving and tweaking old concepts.
I would actually want to see ( or at least test):
A SOLDIER that has
maybe like 10-15% more health
a RocketLauncher with a rather slow travel speed and splashdamage
without that flashbang
2 nade slots
a powerful weapon for close range. which loses its power in mid range and does no big damage on long range
a MEDIC i wouldnt change much from what it is now, as people seem to like most attributes:
allrounder weapon for short-mid range
maybe a little less starting ammo
95 HP
an ENGIE
a FIELD OP with:
a SNIPER
I agree actually. The covert/recon is usually just one of those special picks simply because the weaponry is difficult to master. I can see something like heart beat nades being useful in some cases, but overall it just doesn’t bring as much to the table without being able to use its main weapon well. I imagine bringing back the EMP would make it vital for EV missions though, and that could be expanded upon quite easily with the addition of a scoped AR or something of that sort.
+1 for removal of gib ammo / lowering ammo for medics at start.
Right away this would make the medics more reliant on their teammates and actually make the fops have more of a point.
[QUOTE=nailzor;425531](Take my post with a grain of salt, I just recently started playing)
I can not say that I agree with the opening post at all - some of the changes mentioned are pretty out there. A Medic receives ammo for dropping a medpack on a friendly target? No grenade on spawn? Engineer only 1 nade? Some of these things make very little sense to me so I must say loudly: Not so much! Is a Medic a Medic with hybrid Health/Ammo packs! NO! [/QUOTE]
I’d appreciate some more detail on why you think those things are out there or might ruin the game. I am strongly against making things overpowered, linear, or non-sensical on the subject, and I definitely was just brainstorming (but with a lot of thought). A lot of the stuff mentioned I actually pulled from previous ET games like the HP boost on medics (though it occurred differently) and the more significant bonus soldier health. The most drastic suggestion was the medic depending on revives/heals for most of their ammo however, but this was to help solve the issue of rambo medics being so efficient without really nerfing them. Medics wouldn’t really change much in terms of their base strength (stronger/weaker), however they would be more proned to stick around the main group in order to be the most effective. Then the general idea of applying the same kind of reward to the FOPS as a result of being a team player also made more sense than just granting XP as a means of encouraging team play. The one thing about having soldier and fops as the most appealing killing classes is because this is where some of the ET games got it wrong. The goal is not to simply repeat what we are used to or ignore the fact that it became an issue, but instead to bring worth back to the other classes instead of just having them for specific objectives or because someone just finds them fun.
A lot of the reasons for why I divided up specific ammo counts/etc is to promote symbiotic relations between classes. Off the bat each class has the potential of easily out playing any other in a 1v1 situation, but in the larger scheme of things relations need to be established among the classes in order for them to get the most out of their life; ie team work. A soldier/medic/covert would want a Fops around for resupply as often as possible. A Fops would want to be around to resupply grenades to the soldier (and anyone else requiring them such as medics) so that breaking defensive holds would be less frustrating for the team and constantly resupply the team in general to be able to use his airstrike more consistently, as well as capitalizing on his potential to output a lot of damage into the enemy group. Medics would want to stick to groups in order to maintain sufficient ammo and in turn would encourage the medic to support more consistently than wandering off solo. Engineer would possibly be the most self-sustaining class if anything, which would make the most sense considering that they are the primary objective class and are currently designed to be most effective at holding fixed defensive locations or fighting from mid-range.
Again these things are just suggestions and I don’t expect all of them to work. I’m simply trying to break away from old habits because the goal of this game makes a lot of sense to me. Some of my ET/ETQW comp friends would always complain about why they wanted rambo medic to be the best in earlier alpha versions, but the only reason why they demanded it was because it was what they were used to and not what really would benefit the game or with any concern for the overall meta. I’m hoping that this thread won’t just be purely analysis of the points I listed, but instead people will also offer up alternatives or their own ideas regarding the subject. That’s my main goal here.
Lot off things for the different classes look ok for me.
But you need to add some abilities on some classes.
Like inferno said an EMP can be nice for the cover ops make him more usefull for the team.
I really think in some way we need some secondary objectives, like backdoors you can only open if you’re in disguise.
Some others “big” weapons for the soldiers are needed to be really fun to play,and maybe get ammo only after 2 frags or no ammo at all. something in this way to make the Field ops more usefull (with a real airstrike to)
and maybe the field ops can be the only one to drop ammo when killed and medics drop medpacks like good old times
I like the idea to get 1 or 2 class a bit harder to master but realy efficient after some training with.
I doubt preventing the medic from being overused will work. I’d like to see it, but I just cannot believe this will ever happen. Just as you said most players stick to old habits. Is this a bad thing in general?
Isn’t the healing (of yourself) something most of us like to do in order to enjoy some sort of aggressive gameplay ( => “Rambo” -Playstyle)
Just saying that this over-usage of the Med in previous games was not only a bad thing, but also brought a lot of fun.
So if we can find a way to make it a lot of fun without playing medic only, I would really like it. But better bring me another game with rambo medics, than a game that forces me into a playstyle I dont like. As I posted above, making other classes excel in other situations like Fops/Sniper on long range or Soli on short range might as well do it.
We could achieve a reduction of medics as you get the option to rather easily kill a medic if you play your weapon to your advantage.
All this talk about medic nerfing should stop at a certain point. I dont want a game with an underpowered medics.
=> maybe we dont need a big medic nerf, but push other classes?!
[QUOTE=scre4m.;425678]I doubt preventing the medic from being overused will work. I’d like to see it, but I just cannot believe this will ever happen. Just as you said most players stick to old habits. Is this a bad thing in general?
Isn’t the healing (of yourself) something most of us like to do in order to enjoy some sort of aggressive gameplay ( => “Rambo” -Playstyle)
Just saying that this over-usage of the Med in previous games was not only a bad thing, but also brought a lot of fun.
So if we can find a way to make it a lot of fun without playing medic only, I would really like it. But better bring me another game with rambo medics, than a game that forces me into a playstyle I dont like. As I posted above, making other classes excel in other situations like Fops/Sniper on long range or Soli on short range might as well do it.
We could achieve a reduction of medics as you get the option to rather easily kill a medic if you play your weapon to your advantage.
All this talk about medic nerfing should stop at a certain point. I dont want a game with an underpowered medics.
=> maybe we dont need a big medic nerf, but push other classes?![/QUOTE]
I wasn’t saying that it shouldn’t be overused, however it’s a bad thing for it to be able to do what it could in the past. If you read very closely as to what I was saying the medic is not at all weak and only nerfed in the ammo department, it just doesn’t last long if all it does is run around by itself. There’s no suggestion of preventing self heal or lowering damage or anything of that sort, but instead making it more effective when regrouping with the rest of the team every once in a while. And it is a very big problem to only have one class composition because then it is no longer a real class based shooter but a medic based shooter. Every class needs to bring something very valuable to the team, and sure you could have a full team of medics, but it should be easily beatable by a more balanced composition in situations where mixed classes bring some advantage to certain engagements.
Same here ! ammo on dead bodies just kill the Field ops necessity, and regen did the same thing with medic.
I would also be perfectly satisfied with Maca’s suggestion. I only assumed gib drops were there to lure players into gibbing bodies more often instead of just TDMing it up in obj mode.
My opinion is the drops actually give EVEN MORE of a TDM/Rambo mentality to players. If your not a team oriented person you won’t gib to begin with an in turn players get picked up by actual medics on the other team. So yes the ammo drop entices someone to gib, but in the expense of players just running around ramboing in a pub atmosphere. Which, I dunno, maybe that’s what we are looking for in that sense?
Good point. It’s tough to really decide whether it adds something to the game or just causes more chaos.
I really think this is the second option ! Actually when i’m looking for ammo i’m looking for an easy enemy to kill (or try to kill one ;o)
instead of looking for field ops. And in game every one do the same …
if there is no ammo drop then in match Field ops is needed and again if there is no regen medics needs more teamplay.
and you can add “hot points” with some “Ammo/health Rack” 
Old school dude !