Chenap Whining : map design is not working !


(chenapan) #1

Hi there ! I played for a while without posting anything… i was just trying to figure out what i liked and what i didnt …
I have to say… that the game i enjoyed the most in my life, and that i miss a LOT is Wolf : ET, so i will refer to it in this thread ( anyway, SD did some references to it in the map design, so it is a good point of reference anyway ).

First of all i have to say that i quite enjoyed DB, i love the design, i am loving more and more the gunfigths… i like the movements ( miss the bunny hop tough )
andi think it could become my next best game ever :slight_smile:

This post will looks a lot like a whining kid … and i m sorry about that…

The “boring” term comes quite a lot in the feedbacks… and i takes some times to think about it

For starters, i will talk about frustration wich lead to boredom when it is felt repeteadly, the main responsible for this is imo, map design…

Then there is walls
They are just too much frustrating.
In waterloo terminus ( 1st part of the map ) inspired by ET “oasis” you have to run for ever to get to the action. And worst… along the way you just run all along a lonnng corridor, you takes the stairs, you know the CP is at 2 meters behind the wall in front of you … but you have to take this new corridor in the opposite direction to finally get in the real action.
The feeling youget at this point is frustration ( if you get killed by a random nade at this point i dont event want to imagine the level of frustration you could get )
And this schema is on almost all the map., during all the map.

In the original oasis … action was taking place not only at the wall or at the cp but all over the road to it ( actualy there was 1 cp and 1 flag ! ) so you had 4 objectives rigth from the start ( tak the cp construct the pump ) / destroy the wall / takes the flag …and you had 4 or 5 path to get to it …all of that equal a FIELD and you never felt like there is just a wall between you and the objective … you get into action pretty fast and it was great.

Then there is the boredom that comes from linearity and constant amount of action ( like in music … when you have always the sound at the maximum and get dizzy and bored because of it ) … We as humans need variation … silence, and then intense action… and maybe some stealth … in a word again :variation
For that matter, i think that ECHO may be responsible of that linearity … by assuring the same amount of kill / death all over the map, i am afraid that this system kills the variations of feelings and emotions … maybe this system would be great to design CS or even COD map where you are supposed to figth with no reasons …and all over the map… but i dont think it is that appropriate for a more clever / emotional game like ET was or DB should get :slight_smile:

And finally there is the lack of epicness of last chance action performed by a lucky survivor ( or crazy hero ) that you had in ET … ( think about the epicness of steeling the documents in Venice … or transmit datas in extremis in a lot of map from ET or even to construct a command post with your last HP and by doing so totally changes the game ?

I think this lack of epicness comes again from the map design… in ET you felt like figting in cities / desert / castle etc etc… but always on a field with a lot of figthing areas wich were active at the same times
that was leading to a more spreaded action overall… and you could choose were to go … what to do … and sometimes make a diversion with some friends just to let one buddy hero to perform an obj meanwhile…
in DB you feel like playing in a long corridor, with sometimes a side route but never a side area of action ( apart maybe canary warf … but it could be more open ) so the action is always concentrated in on place and there is no place for epicness … just constant action … with always the same amount of tension and kill / death amount and the same long run to get to it …and this is boring

I realised that just tonight … i was more tired than usual ( maybe more drunk too ) and pissed off by other “life” related stuff hence i was more subject to frustration … and i felt it very clearly playing waterloo terminus and also the end of
London Bridge the “goldrush” map . i think i dont have to describe it… and that everybody is really frustrated about the path from the defense spawn point to the EV road…

So maybe you should try to draft some more open / field filled maps with less obstacles / more obj ( faster to activate for some of them )
even with white blocks … just for testing purpose, i am sure a lot of alpha tester would be glad to test it even without textures and details
( and try to have fun with obj…make it silly or poetic sometimes )

anyway thanks for reading ( my poor english from france )

Thanks again for making such a great game !


(BomBaKlaK) #2

Nice feedback agreed on a lot of points especially the map design


(Nail) #3

I wouldn’t call that whining, creative criticism maybe, but not bad for a French guy :wink:


(prophett) #4

[QUOTE=chenapan;449976]
I think this lack of epicness comes again from the map design… in ET you felt like figting in cities / desert / castle etc etc… but always on a field with a lot of figthing areas wich were active at the same times
that was leading to a more spreaded action overall… and you could choose were to go … what to do … and sometimes make a diversion with some friends just to let one buddy hero to perform an obj meanwhile…
in DB you feel like playing in a long corridor, with sometimes a side route but never a side area of action ( apart maybe canary warf … but it could be more open ) so the action is always concentrated in on place and there is no place for epicness … just constant action … with always the same amount of tension and kill / death amount and the same long run to get to it …and this is boring[/QUOTE]

Definitely agree. A lot of people have been saying the same thing for quite some time.
See my post which basically says the same thing:
http://forums.warchest.com/showthread.php/36022-Sustaining-fun?p=448960&viewfull=1#post448960


(potty200) #5

With the new spawn time, all the map worked a LOT better. Watch the VODs of the showmatch to get an idea of how its changed the gameplay!


(stealth6) #6

I don’t agree on the map design points. If I put the Oasis and Waterloo side by side, most of the paths in Oasis I can place in Waterloo. So if they’re trying to make a W:ET replica then they’re not doing a bad job imo. Same for london bridge I think there are lots of ways I could take to flank the enemy just like in Goldrush.

I agree that the 1 man objectives were epic though (like transmit the radio docs), since then the whole weight of the game is put onto 1 guys shoulders.

I do agree that all of the action takes place in close vicinity the objectives. I don’t think it’s due to map design though. In W:ET you could take risks of advancing further into enemy territory since you could trickjump back and be back in the action quickly. This is a dynamic missing from DB. If you wander off you are going to have to walk all the way back. You can’t move faster than other players.

Another reason that counters wandering is that players are just pretty weak on their own. In W:ET it was doable for any player to get a double kill in a fight and with some luck knock down a third. In DB imo I’m lucky to get a double kill. (of course this could also be due to the current testers being better than an average pub server or that I just suck in DB).

Finally in W:ET you had the sten which was both deadly and silent making it the perfect tool to sneak around with and pick off enemies from the back. Plus the ability to disguise could give you that second of doubt needed to slip away.


(AntOO14) #7

So to make it short, there is less “to do”, in the Goldrush map everybody could do a job and the fights where more spread out.
Same for the Oasis map where you had multiple options/routes to take the first flag or make it epic and sneak trough.
I also think the maps are very short-sighted with not much distance in them what makes the map play and feel different.