Character progression, Statistics, Ranking and unlocks

(Dysfunkshion) #1

The forum is quite dead at the moment because of a lack of new information, so I decided to open up a discussion about something that has proven to be controversial in the past.

There’s a lot of questions that can be asked:

Will there be character progression? (Persistent level, unlocks)
Do we want it or rather how do we want it?
Do you want to see detailed personal statistics, global statistics, map stats, server stats if there’s dedicated servers, … ?
Do we want a public ranking system, if so, how do you determine skill?

Personally I’d like to see a system ingame like W:ET. Getting levels for just playing, increasing your battle sense, light weapons and class attributes.
However, I’d love to see detailed stat tracking for me personally. This includes playtime, won and lost matches, objectives completed, accuracy, … The only problem I currently see with this is that some people will obsess over stats rather than playing the game as it should be played. (The typical K/D ratio being the devil here)

This KD obsession could be easily overcome if there’s a global ranking system based on overall skill. I don’t know how to determine skill in an objective oriented game. The main problem I see is that there’s different kinds of players who contribute in a different kind of way to the team, without getting lot’s of points or kills or whatever. (Just distracting a team from the main objective by forcing them to deal with you is a good example of what I mean)

But a ranking system causes problems as well. What if there’s dedicated servers with certain mods that allow you to “cheat” the system. (Let’s say, triple recharge rate on medpacks --> Medpackspam) We can’t go back to ranked/unranked servers. This failed in the past and this doesn’t encourage the use of community created content.

I could go on and create a bigger wall of text, but I’m not going to do that. I’d rather jump in the heat of the discussion.

TLDR: What do you want see regarding unlocks, stats and character progression? Personally I’d like to see these things implemented IF SD can overcome the problems that such systems create. I wouldn’t mind if they don’t include them if this makes the overall game experience better.

(Kendle) #2

I’ve never been in favour of stats / unlocks / XP or anything like that as it gives people something to play for other than the objective.

I still remember the dark days of ET when it first released, being TK’ed by another Engie because he wanted the XP for a plant, Engie’s blowing up / building constructibles that didn’t need to be touched at that stage of a map (2nd Truck Barrier on Goldrush before the Tank had even moved etc.). I still remember referee-ing a match in one of the first ET competitions ever organised, a 3 hour marathon on Fueldump that ended in a 0 - 0 draw ( 3 double full-holds) because XP so favoured the defending team it was virtually impossible for evenly matched teams to set a time.

Thank Bani for ETPro, which removed XP progression and saved ET from dying a quick death.

I don’t care about any kind of progression that’s purely cosmetic (shiny hat for getting ‘x’ amount of XP), but anything that effects gameplay has to be treated very, very carefully.

I do kinda like personal stats, BF3’s “Battlelog” website for example is nice for seeing how well you’re really doing with certain weapons, and how well your performance compares to your friends / team-mates. On the BF3 forums however personal stats are used by posters to bash each other (“look at your K/D, your opinion doesn’t count” etc.).

No idea how you’d rank skill in an objective game, other than maybe XP gained / time played, as long as XP is only rewarded for things that need to be done, at the time / stage of the map they need to be done.

I doubt there will actually be any mods, as it’s a F2P game, so that probably won’t be a problem.

(phoen1x) #3

Oh please, again this “PROmod” saved the game. It never saved anything. PERIOD.

(Kendle) #4

OK, it possibly only saved the “competitive” game, not necessarily the “public” game, although SD incorporated a lot of Bani’s code and bug fixes into ETMain, so, er, actually, thinking about it, it probably did save the game. :slight_smile:

(stealth6) #5

Down with global stats. The price is too high for the result.

You need ranked servers or servers you trust for them to work, so you can say good bye to hosting your own server on your own box. No mods since that will mess with the stats too and no custom maps either.
Otherwise you have to work with unranked servers… Well we saw how well that worked in ET:QW

I hate global stats since they’re not even representative, there’s always going to be people playing the system to get to the top (statpadding / hacking)

I think the best solution is keep stats, but you can only see your friends stats, ELO should be hidden (if there is match making). That way at least nobody can get worked up about it, or use stats to boast or accuse another player. Then we could also possibly have mods / maps / custom content, since you’d just ruin your own stats and only your friends can see it.

Obviously there need to be some kind of limits in place so you can’t break the system by earning 900k XP in one match.

(KlausMorgenholz) #6

Persistent unlocks are bad. They overpower time-spending players and that ends up annoying newbies, and making them leaving the game.

I loved ET, but the experience requirements for every level was just too low. You could get to lvl4 of any class in the first map (and I was no pro of any kind). In ETQW it was a little harder, but I found that not every class should level up with the same experience points.

Talking about stats… I find them interesting but they can get people into doing things other than pushing for the objective, like getting a hog and ram everything just to get the “vehicle wreath”. Just saying.

(Mustang) #7

Bani is probably working for MI6 by now :o

(Chux) #8

It’s hard to get this one right. Personally I hate any kind of ranks and rank related unlocks. I understand that, for some, it’s motivation to continue playing, but I just think it’s stupid. The same goes for global stats, people just get so worked up about them it’s ridiculous. “Look at my K/D, my K/D’s amazing give it a lick…” Turns everyone into stat grinding whores not caring about the game any more.

ET had its fair share of XP whoring, but I kind of liked the system, limiting the unlocks to the map or campaign. Just stacking that **** like some games do is pointless. Just thinking out loud and can’t really say if this is the right formula for DB, but maybe go with the ET system and even give the player some options. Like a choice between an extra ammo clip or improved charge speed or faster revive capability and stuff. But again, limit the buffs to one map or campaign and not have a gazillion levels for each upgrade. Also have a cvar to turn the feature on/off for comp play.

(acutepuppy) #9

I liked Quake Wars campaign unlocks a lot. I wouldn’t mind seeing those lower-level upgrades incorporated, only because they weren’t game changing.

If they wanted to do a LoL model and have different unlockable mercs with minor upgrades like “faster sprint / C4 arming” or “decreased spread / extra grenade” for soldier, and “extra clip / full health revieves” or “faster sprint / medpack+” for medic, I could deal with that. I’d much rather see upgrades that enhance players roles, rather than define them… CoD perks are ridiculous, T:A perks are really role defining.

I’d just rather see more options if you pay/play, rather than persistent slow growing upgrades, many of which are often frustrating or pointless not to have already. Looking at you, Battlefield.

(Tandem) #10

no in-game upgrades pls

(KlausMorgenholz) #11

I just came up with an idea: Give players the traditional rewards, like in ET and ETQW, but hide gained XP until the end of the campaign, so people won’t abandon objectives just to gain more xp.

(Rex) #12

It saved the comp scene.

(joshyman) #13

For an unlock system this is what I would like to see.

  1. Per game unlocks. (JUST LIKE Enemy Territory. Have so many levels in each class, plus an awareness and a light weapons level. As long as you’re on the server, you keep your unlocks.

  2. Character unlocks. (I’d LOVE to see some customization, such as visual. Gun skins, new clothes, new avatars. NOTHING with any long term effects in the game. Nothing that gives you an advantage over any other player.)

  3. Team Unlocks (Itd be really neat to see party unlocks. if you and your buddies are in a party together and you group up and level up together, you could unlock things that you can use together. like a buddy boost kinda of deal. Think of the adrenaline shot the 4 star medic had in ET, except you can give it to your buddy in exchage for say a gun with a higher capacity magazine.)

Just a few things I think would be cool.

I want to stress that i don’t want to see ANY unlocks that make you better or have a distinct advantage over anyone.

(Zarlor) #14

I’d like to see XP which is gaining during a match unlocking a benefit which only applies to completing objectives such as faster arming of C4 by soldiers or faster building by engineers. ETQW had things like a tighter spread which was usually unlocked by the ones who were going around killing everyone -like they needed that boost! If the XP went into unlocking the kinds of things I mentioned it would encourage completing the objectives.

(Nemesis_TX) #15

Unlocks- like the idea of team based unlocks, but may be difficult to manage. Definitely have unlocks reset after x number of maps. Stats are fun at the end of map or campaign. I am good at the lemming award most times, but I am all about the objective.

(prophett) #16

Exactly like ET would be fine