There is a lot of thing in a fight in these games (ET/ETQW/EXtraction) its not just dueling other team with ur insane aim…
-there is crossfire,
-there are terrain features that can put someone in a disadvantage and visa versa,
-there are objects that require time to do and time to cover and different ways and angles that this cover can be done.
-there are dead teammates and enemies rushing from the spawn from more or less probable ways.
if you sum it (and many other little things) all up: proper nade-game does require skill. a tactical quick thinking skill. Its not about precise cooking - which is easy. Its about choosing the right desision in a right moment. Its battlesense, in other words.
How do you dodge a grenade you can cook to explode exactly where you want? I’m just gonna disagree with you based on my personal experiences. My problem with grenades and spam is that they don’t require intelligent play or practice by comparison. People have come to expect grenades, mines, etc to give instant gratification without them having to do anything on their part. I simply want them to be more learning curve intensive or serve a greater purpose than simply more reliable damage. I don’t like resorting to spam in order to outright kill a better player, but I would be less bothered if my “spam” involved a comparable skill curve or forced me to perform a more manual process. Think that’s the point being missed here.
i just dont really understand what your point is, and i typically agree with 90% of what you post. you keep saying skill curve, yet cooking nades is really the only skill curve that it can have. As i said previously, top tier teams in et use spam, less as spammy nonsense, and more to block routes, delay an obj for team respawns, and get gibs in hard fought battles. Obviously there is the camping element, which again, can only be done if you do the math, and know the spawntime. The opposing team should know the nades are coming, and delay pushing out. These are skill curve elements, and things that, to me, are crucial for competition
Basically, I don’t mind the frag grenades being limited to a single merc atm because it’s manageable. I do however support the return of “grenades” to other mercs, but in debuff style instead of damage. My main problem with these style of frag grenades is that they are simply put, easy to use. Easier than a gun, which is a problem to me. There are always situations in which skill is involved ie long tosses, etc- however that doesn’t make up for the fact that anyone can use them in most scenarios. Xt is slow, the maps are condensed, and being able to cook the nade makes it a whole lot easier to get kills. Nade cooking actually cuts the curve in half because it eliminates the opponents ability to dodge- and the main skill is the throwing itself. In other games you have to land the throw, but also predict that an enemy is going to cross its path on detonation.
To me the more skillfully equal frag grenade designs might be;
A. Non-cookable grenades that have a delayed detonation on landing
B. Cookable grenades with a small blast radius
C. Grenades that result in a larger AOE when directly impacting a player (cookable or non)
My personal preference would be to have a grenade available to all players, which had a low AOE and medium damage, but would double in both AOE and damage upon direct impacts with a player (or EV). Then to add to it, also a secondary debuff attribute (varied between mercs/classes), which functioned along similar lines. I could see nade tossing being pretty skillful if the highest level of proficiency required you to hit a player with an air-nade. It’s not that I don’t like the concept of grenades, but rather I think they aren’t up to par with the other weapons available. The equivalent to a poorly aimed nade should really be the same result as a poorly aimed rifle, and vice versa.
word. i agree with a lot of those points. I dont personally think everyone should have a straight frag grenade, mainly because the maps in Xt just arent very good. Too many hallways and long escort obj, but i do think that the convo we’ve been having about character specific grenades with debuffs could be a game changer. It would add a huge element to the game, and really force people to pick a merc based on their style of play and the map/obj. Imagine a med with a nade that drastically slowed down heals, or even stopped regen. Smoke grenades, artillery shields ect. all of these things would add sooooo much to the game and each individual merc
That’s why we try with this post to provide alternative grenade types that have other purposes than inflicting pure damage. You don’t really get a new grenade, you get a new ability and with it comes new strategies. That’s the beauty of the thing.
For skills on grenade, I’d say you don’t need much skill to land a grenade, but you need a lot of skill to land THE grenade. In anyway, it has to be used in conjunction with gun play and that’s what makes the game interesting IMO.
I’m still brainstorming on this thread, finding new ideas for “nadabilities”
To an outside observer they would have sped up time within the field, so within the field the outside would have slowed down, giving them more time to figure out how to avoid their impending doom.
Although I suppose technically time always “travels” at the same speed, it’s more a matter of perspective.
Think matrix style bullet avoiding.
Actually thinking about it this is almost the opposite of the existing behaviour we already have with the concussion grenade. That is, from an observer (the nade thrower) the target player slows down. Now if only the target player (from their perspective) could continue to move at the same speed, but the players around them would speed up… :eek:
