Changes and balancing - My point of view / Constructive discussion

(Lagenberg) #1

Greetings! I am a Finnish guy who has played a few Splash Damage games and ~10 years RTCW/Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory, Quake and CS. More or less actively, semi-pro and casually. I’ve liked these 3 days of playing Dirty Bomb alot - I’ve actually played it around 18 hours in these three days. In this short period of time I’ve noticed few things that in my opinion needs to be taken look at for balancing the competitive games. I will also give my take on what shouldn’t be changed. I’ll stick in the gameplay and leave lobby and server issues alone.

Things that should be changed/looked at:

  • Kira’s Orbital Laser
  • It is easy to counter, if you can shut down Kira from open area. However, it can also wipe the whole team way too easily and even if Kira died, it can hold an objective spot on it’s on for a few crucial seconds.
  • It should end after Kira dies just to balance it a bit.
  • One-way angles and field of view problems
  • In Dirty Bomb there are many angles that can be held without other person seeing you or atleast not seeing your head or not being able to hit it even if you aim precisely on it
  • For example: Staircase in the first stage of Bridge, Long road in between first and second stage of Chaple (behind the boxes in the far end for the defenders. This also happens if somebody hides behind a small bar/lamp post, you can actually see him and his head, but can’t hit it as the lamp post actually blocks every shot even though sides of the head would be visible.
  • This should be really looked at as competitively you can abuse most of these angles pretty well.
  • Planting turret on weird spots (mainly in Underground 3rd stage you can abuse this)
  • Server-sided anticheats to be added
  • This works in most of competitive games for hiding players from networking them (wallhacking)
  • Can also be used to detect some aiming methods
  • I am actually not so familiar with UT engine, I’ll have to look at it to give a bit better take on this
  • Xigncode is being bypassed by custom files
  • This should be blocked
  • There are actually public forums that share these custom files to be able to either debug the game to develop a hack or to hack in this game safely
  • Replay system
  • This should be self-explanatory
  • Stats system
  • I was expecting kind of the same system as in ET. The games are so much alike that this should definitely be added and it gives people more feedback on their performance.
  • There are negative effects in casual as for objective being forgotten as everybody tries to get as much dmg/hs/kills. Still this doesn’t effect negatively in competitive, but actually gives a possibility to analyze players and rank them.
  • After being dead having default binds, after respawning having the actual binds
  • For example: I’ve unbound the walk key. I still can toggle on walk when dead and waiting for spawning, but after I spawn, I can’t toggle it off without binding again a walk key or toggling it off after dying.
  • In-game reporting system for cheating/toxic behaviour
  • Shotgun hitboxes unto turrets and mounted EV
  • Spectating must be fixed. It’s laggy and looks worse than 16 tick CS:GO. Also it stucks sometimes into dead bodies or free cam mode.
  • Getting Minor Penalties which start weirdly when you search for the match, but not after you stopped the queue after Dirty Bomb’s lobby failure.
  • Fletcher’s Sticky Bombs
  • These are a lot better than Fragger’s nades.
  • These can be abused with objectives (for Attackers and Defenders eg. stick to datacores etc.)
  • These are insane in defense with correct planting
  • You can use them like Fragger’s nades

Things that probably should be adjusted/customizable:

  • Hud (if it already isn’t), I’ll be comparing to games I early mentioned I’ve played
  • Map isn’t actually very practical, hard to track and it really doesn’t pop out from the hud
  • Spawntimer shouldn’t be in the upper part of the screen, but in the middle-right or left
  • Health should be more visible and I haven’t been able to take off the blood spatters after I take dmg
  • This isn’t a must, but a suggestion: Loadout cards and the auguments
  • This is a way to be able to control meta game in competitive games
  • As if there are imbalanced combinations as there could be, they should be balanced and thus changing current meta game.
  • Turrets to be destroyable/fixable

Things that are fine but people keep complaining about:

  • Airstrikes and arties are fine
  • In Enemy Territory airstrikes and arties had team cd, which could work, but isn’t necessary
  • You can actually play around the airstrikes (eg. not fixing the EV just before the airstrike, but after it, get the EV over the airstrike as they are pretty strict with their hits and require most of the salvo to be hit on target)
  • In stopwatch both sides have equal chance to use airstrikes and it actually requires some timing and game sense to use them correctly
  • If arties are imbalanced, it’s due to it’s weakness as Arty must be exposed to actually use it properly
  • Run and gun
  • As this is a Splash Damage game and is a mixture of ET, Brink and UT for me, it should be obvious that the game actually is built around movement.
  • Why nobody ever cried about running and gunning in Quake?
  • Iron Sights not giving any more accuracy
  • This is totally fine, actually I don’t see any reason to use these but to zoom in for some pixel shots
  • In a fast paced game, aiming down sight isn’t quite logical?
  • Plantable objects (Health Station, Ammo Station and Turret)
  • Aura is nothing without Health Station but a running critter, which can’t do a thing without actually getting close
  • These three can and should be destroyed always first and they can be destroyed quite easily with Nader or Fragger, even with Vassili and Skyhammer.
  • I don’t see how defending team could actually hold any objectives in this game without being far superior in aiming and movement if it wasn’t for these three (and for Orbital Laser and Airstrike)
  • Game is p2w. It’s not pay to win, but it definitely helps you to get what you want. You actually can do well without loadouts.

    Things I haven’t found out about yet, but definitely should be included:
  • Being able to host games for your friends on lan
  • Different crosshairs as not all are comfortable those provided
  • Actual tutorials on your site for new players (this is easy game to start in, but hard to master due to the movement, not many people seems to be using the long jump in games I’ve played)
  • A list of user side console variables and commands for competitive, casual and experimental use

I wrote this after a 6-hour streaming session of Dirty Bomb and after drinking a litre of coffee in 3 AM, so I apologize for every grammar mistake I made and for this wall of text. Now I must get some sleep.

EDIT: Made some additions in there. I’d hope some constructive discussion around these things!

  • Lagenberg
(Lagenberg) #2

To add something:

  • Shotgun hitboxes unto turrets and mounted EV
(Humbug) #3

http://wezelkrozum.com/temp/xt_hudconfig/v3/

for customizing your HUD

(Szakalot) #4

good post

(Lagenberg) #5

[quote=“Humbug;25224”]http://wezelkrozum.com/temp/xt_hudconfig/v3/

for customizing your HUD[/quote]
Thanks, tried it out. Having some trouble with getting it perfect though. It seems to anchor some of the elements weirdly. Also I’d like to delete some of the objects if possible.

EDIT: Is this actually in wrong section?

(Ghosthree3) #6

I can agree with the majority of this. Also the keybind bug when dead is really frustrating to me since I use T/Y for chat and keep typing in all chat when dead.

I’d like a demo system as good as Quake’s, no game has yet done it though - that I know of.

One thing I didn’t see but may have missed is that spectating other players needs to be fixed, badly. It’s so laggy and weird that there’s really no point to it.

I’d also really like a /cvarlist command, that should work for the list you wanted, if one exists though please tell me.

(Lagenberg) #7

[quote=“Ghosthree3;25283”]I can agree with the majority of this. Also the keybind bug when dead is really frustrating to me since I use T/Y for chat and keep typing in all chat when dead.

I’d like a demo system as good as Quake’s, no game has yet done it though - that I know of.

One thing I didn’t see but may have missed is that spectating other players needs to be fixed, badly. It’s so laggy and weird that there’s really no point to it.

I’d also really like a /cvarlist command, that should work for the list you wanted, if one exists though please tell me.[/quote]

Oh, forgot to add about spectating. It also almost never gets to spec as it keeps somehow lagging around your body.

(Lagenberg) #8

Again some additions (been stuck with minor penalties due to lobby failures). Is it actually possible to have a to-do list from Splash / Nexon on what features they will be doing/updating atm? @MissMurder

(Amerika) #9

Almost all of these things have been brought up so at least you’re on point with what many in the community feel are issues. DB is being worked on by a small team and I think they have a lot of these issues setup to be fixed at some point but they simply do not have the resources yet (they are hiring) to get them fixed very quickly while still adding new features to flesh out the game and keep it appealing. Hopefully most everything gets addressed at some point.

There are a ton of little bugs that should be fixed though. The binds you brought up are very annoying. If a vote comes up it defaults to F1 and F2 but that will change your class. And if you move the binds to change your class to, say, F5-F7 you will no longer be able to ready-up with F6. Weird low hanging bugs like this will hopefully be fixed. Other bugs like the click bug where nothing comes out when you fire your rifle with Vassili (happens most often with him) or the crouch reload bug where crouch can cancel it should hopefully be fixed too but they’ve been in the game for quite some time at this point.

(Lagenberg) #10

Thanks for your answer. I haven’t had time actually t odig deeper in the community to know much about the history behind these problems. Current state of game is changing slowly apparently. I actually also wondered how @MissMurder manages with all this work on forums etc. @Amerika

(Noble_One) #11

i agre with most of your points. though the kira one makes no sense since shes already punch in the coordinates for the laser, killing her does nothing and should do nothing. if that were to go through then the same would have to go for arty and skyhammer before their drops came in.

(Lagenberg) #12

Well, I see it a bit differently. Glad that you gave your opinion. But I don’t see anyway to have a comparison with Skyhammer’s airstrike. It doesn’t last long and actually it serves multiple purposes (nade inside, which couldn’t explode if Skyhammer died after throwing it considering your opinion). Skyhammer’s airstrike and the Arty doesn’t last as long as Orbital Laser. Orbital Laser is far superior and precise, which it obviously is meant to be. It also is abusable in certain angles. I never meant to have Kira become inferior to Arty or Skyhammer.

(Lagenberg) #13

Played a bit with Fletcher. That is one imbalanced merc. Had to add something about his Sticky bombs.

(Ghosthree3) #14

I actually thought Fletcher seemed to be the weakest Merc of the lot to be honest. The sticky bombs just don’t seem that great and can be easily destroyed. Apart from that there is very little reason to choose him over, say, Proxy. My game experience so far is still quite lacking so I could be very wrong, it’s just that he unlike everyone else doesn’t really feel like he is ever ‘the choice’ at any given moment.

(Amerika) #15

I would definitely say that Fletcher is the weakest engineer but it has nothing to do with his sticky bombs. Smart sticky bomb usage can be pretty clutch and they can be a good way to get kills. But most people forget, much like people who play nader, that he has a primary weapon.

However, that primary is why I think he’s not that great. He’s slow like Bushwacker but doesn’t have access to a Kek10 or Crotzni like Bushwacker and the turret has more situations where it excels. And he doesn’t have Proxy’s speed or access to a better SMG. His sticky’s are definitely better than mines though.

(Lagenberg) #16

@Ghosthree3 @Amerika I found Fletcher to be insane with the sitcky bombs. It doesn’t kinda matter if you can destroy them as you can also detonate them on hit. If he had Kek-10 like Amerika said, it would be ridiculous and I do agree that Bushwacker is insanely good also, but actually he seems to be in balance. Turrets are easily destroyed and after that all he has is Kek-10. But yeah, with raw aim and a bit game sense, Fletcher is sick.

EDIT: Forgot to add about Proxy. In my opinion Proxy is one of the weakest mercs. She is fast, but fragile. Her mines can’t be planted so that an aware player wouldn’t be able to destroy them. She is good for engirush, if you need to get something defused quick or fixed, but otherwise she’s a big no-no.

(Ghosthree3) #17

That’s true, they can be detonated mid air which can be pretty strong. But apart from the stickies what does he offer over any other engineer?

(Lagenberg) #18

The fact that they can be stickied to a person, various spots that nobody usually checks (ceiling in Underground 1st stage), Datacores/Samples etc. They are smaller than mines and can be actually placed pretty well. It is also awesome way to clear areas with the mid air detonate and it easily clears Proxy’s mines for example.

Fletcher isn’t particularly strong engineer, but his bombs are a bit too strong imo. Bushwhacker is by far the best for the balanced speed, thoughness and the sole fact he can have Kek-10.

(acclaimedMirror) #19

Ideas/ Suggestions:

-Currently the game is in a more then acceptable/stable state. I would adivse to continue monitoring beta gameplay for minor balance issues but bring the focus towards content: Since progression is slow (standard f2p model, no gripes here), I think new maps and modes is the most important thing to focus on. Id say new mercs aswell, but given the amount of time it takes to unlock them, I don’t think they are the priority.

  • New maps and modes should also include developping new objectives for current modes… Something to add to the Escort EV, Plant C4, Aquire objective formula. Examples: protect a VIP (could be a randomly respawning team member), destroy an objective with splash damage (instead of C4), etc. You can add diversity without implementing a whole new game mode.

  • Merc specific achievements: these could unlock loadout cards or just give you a sense of progression for specializing with a merc.

  • I like the load out cards idea but I feel that weapon wise they could add more diversity. A skyhammer with a shotgun would be fun and open up different possibilities for CQC sections, etc. As of now, from what I can see, each merc has 3 weapons available throughout the loadout cards, what changes are the passives.

  • Some EV escorts need balancing: some maps, with smart usage of Kyra and/or Skyhammer and Arty, you can completely chokehold the EV, never allowing it to move. No combination (even with Proxy) can overcome that. I believe widening the corridors or nerfing the abilities (lazer and air drop) damage to EVs at least could aleviate this issue.

  • I think this one is obvious so I suspect that it was left out voluntarily: squads. I noticed they are present for competitive play but not for regular games. My and my buddies have a hard time getting in the same team, we often have to quit games and rejoin games that have barely any people on to somehow (through spectator jumping) get ourselves on the same team. I guess this was left out to make sure premade groups don’t rampage over pugs… But given that this is a MP game, I want to group up with my budies and have a good time. Premades could be matched with premades to avoid stacking, etc.

  • Stopwatch and Objective are two very similar game modes. Maybe having different objectives would set them further apart, but for now its basicly the same game mode except Stopwatch offers the losing team a revenge.

  • I feel like there should be no cooldown for missions. Now I know some people will rack up ridiculous game time and abuse of them, but for the majority of us who have actual jobs and responsibilities outisde of the game, farming credits will take forever. The missions so far offer small rewards anyways. I don’t see the point in waiting two hours for a fresh one. I get that this generates credits slower, meaning maybe more people will buy credits or boosters (f2p gotta make money, I get it), but It might also hurt the game, look at it this way: When I don’t have active missions, I feel like I have no objective, so I stop playing. Having constant missions gives me a constant sense of progression. The way it is now I feel like there is a cooldown on my playing time. Thats not ideal, I should always have something to look forward to without waiting two hours for it. I’m not askin for missions to pay more, no! I’d even settle for quirky missions that give small payouts (for example: get a knife kill on Kyra - 100 credits).

  • In addition to missions, you could add a ‘gambling’ element. We could call these contracts. For example: You take out a 15 kill contract. You bet 100 Credits that you will get 15 kills during your next match. Succeed and get paid 200 cr, fail and lose 50 cr.
    It keeps in line with the mercenary theme.