Change supply meter so that getting killed isn't an advantage

(aviynw) #1

This may sound revolutionary, but I don’t think there should be a situation where it is advantageous to get yourself killed. Spawn timers already do this a bit, but at least they also serve some other function. I would actually get rid of the spawn timers too but I understand they are a tradition in sd games that the competitive community has accepted, and I’m not trying to get that changed

The issue I think is worth correcting is with the supply meter. You start with so many supplies, and the recharge rate is so slow, that often, especially as a medic, it is better for your team if you get killed and respawn with full supplies, than if you put up a fight and try to survive

I suggest simply reducing the amount of supplies and increasing the supply recharge rate for all classes to address this problem.

What are your guys thoughts on this?

***I’m actually ok with getting yourself killed //kill being an advantage when its because your respawning with your team, but I still think it is dumb when it is worth it simply for the supplies.

(Spendlove) #2

I see what you are saying and I kind of agree but then again thats been the way with all of these sorts of games. The only one I can think where it would be crazy to die for ammo etc were the limited lives games in Wolfenstein ET which I loved HUGELY. I was slightly dissapointed to find that limited lives servers don’t seem to exist for Brink. :frowning:

Personally I fight on while the meter recharges. I always have something to be doing whether its rain hell on the enemy or even just distract them or go for a command post.

(wolfnemesis75) #3

TOTALLY agree with you on this one! I HATE when one of my team mate medics says: “I’m gonna go kill myself to get my pips back!” This drives me crazy. It is so fundamentally wrong, just wrong. Increasing the supply rate AND health meter recharge rate would GREATLY improve this game for the better, imo.

(gooey79) #4

Nothing wrong with it as is. Anyone who does it is playing a tactical angle within the set parameters of the game.

(tokamak) #5

That’s the problem. Dying on purpose shouldn’t be rewarding, ever.

Letting people start with half the supply meter would already solve a few things. It would also solve the buffing circlejerk during each start.

(RabidAnubis) #6

[QUOTE=tokamak;376583]That’s the problem. Dying on purpose shouldn’t be rewarding, ever.

Letting people start with half the supply meter would already solve a few things. It would also solve the buffing circlejerk during each start.[/QUOTE]

Agreed.

10 chars

(montheponies) #7

Watch RTCW or W:ET and you’ll see folk \kill tactically to make sure they don’t die on a full spawn (which could cost you the game) or to change class (which you couldn’t do in game) - the ‘punishment’ was/is that you spawned back from the objective. How much of a punishment is a function of the map design.

Basically I really don’t see it as that big a deal, just be thankful you don’t have \kill to contend with with unlimited soldiers with pfs…cutting supply meters or making them persistent doesn’t get my vote.

oh and the ‘spawnwave’ idea comes from the team all attacking / defending together, you know as a team :slight_smile:

(Thundermuffin) #8

Why not?

BRINK’s buffing problem doesn’t come from the fact that people can self kill themselves (that must take forever since there isn’t a /kill command) to get a full supply meter; it comes from the fact if you don’t buff yourself you are inferior to everyone else that is equal/above your skill level. If you make respawning players spawn with only 1/2 a supply meter you are severely hurting one side.

What if the offense gets wiped? Now they’re at an even bigger disadvantage than they were beforehand. It would put the defense at a disadvantage in the same way, but the horrible map design is already in their favor so they still have a lot going for them.

Other games have rewarded you for selfkilling or dying on purpose, why should BRINK be any different?

(MrFoxer) #9

Make command posts refill supplies.

(iezza) #10

Make base comand posts refil

(Humate) #11

You start with so many supplies, and the recharge rate is so slow, that often, especially as a medic, it is better for your team if you get killed and respawn with full supplies, than if you put up a fight and try to survive

Its not really that much of an advantage.

With a buffed team vs another buffed team, the one that stayed alive - only needs to spend 1 pip for each player to get their previous spent pips in their health bar. The dead team needs to spend more pips on respawn, to be on an equal level health wise.

(tokamak) #12

[QUOTE=Thundermuffin;376609]Why not?
[/QUOTE]

Because having players attach value to their survival will create more tension in game. Tactics become more nuanced and concepts like cover and keeping players alive through buffs become more relevant. A game where players can freely throw away their lives, or are even encouraged to do so leads to incredibly simplistic gameplay.

(VG_JUNKY) #13

Because having players attach value to their survival will create more tension in game. Tactics become more nuanced and concepts like cover and keeping players alive through buffs become more relevant. A game where players can freely throw away their lives, or are even encouraged to do so leads to incredibly simplistic gameplay.

then i take it that u then think every single fps is simplistic???
Countless fps & 3rd person shooters for example reward u with more ammo when u die…

(tokamak) #14

ET had battlesense, COD has killstreaks, Unreal and Quake laud you for your killing sprees and my favourite is the TF2 keeps track of all kinds of records that tell how much you can do within one lifetime, it has instant revive and has found a recent influx of weapons that improve over time to keep you in play longer it’s really frustrating to die with a powered up Eyelander or a full war banner.

(Teufel_Eldritch) #15

Seems like a good idea to me. Death is not supposed to be a good thing.

(Humate) #16

Theres no value to ones survival, when the “streamlined system” completes all the class actions, at the speed of light. Theres no risk involved. If they wanted to to make players value their life, they would have used a bank system. They would have included accurate weapons. They even could have gone the ticket system route if it was really that important.

(Thundermuffin) #17

Do you think ET and ET:QW’s gameplay are “incredibly simplistic” since you were able to freely throw away your life? There are a lot of tactics that revolve around /killing or giving up your life on purpose that are just as team oriented as making sure you stay alive all the time.

One can even take a look at a game that you mention below like Quake and realize how someone might kill someone and purposely have to kill themselves in the process to deny them a quad, flag capture, or weapon. Is that incredibly simplistic?

TF2 doesn’t have instant revive. It has spawn timers, but it doesn’t include spawn waves like ET. Those weapons you speak of are also really situational most of the time, are weaker than the vanilla weapons in too many ways, or are just plain useless.

(tokamak) #18

Yeah I do. I often said that, here and on the ETQW forums. I also think battlesense could’ve been expanded to have it’s effect apply over a longer timespan. Battlesense measured how active you were per tick rather than what you did over your whole life.

One can even take a look at a game that you mention below like Quake and realize how someone might kill someone and purposely have to kill themselves in the process to deny them a quad, flag capture, or weapon. Is that incredibly simplistic?

Yeah I think it is. Though arcade shooters play at a different rate and are more simplistic (not an insult, it’s elegant in it’s own way and suits the action) so I don’t think they’re a fair comparison. It’s tactical shooters we’re talking here.

TF2 doesn’t have instant revive. It has spawn timers, but it doesn’t include spawn waves like ET. Those weapons you speak of are also really situational most of the time, are weaker than the vanilla weapons in too many ways, or are just plain useless.

The Eyelander is a class in and of itself, but that aside, have it your way, I don’t have any issue with stating that TF2 is simplistic.

(Thundermuffin) #19

Brink isn’t a tactical shooter, though; it has way more in common with 90s arcade shooters than it does a Rainbow Six title. In my opinion killing yourself is perfectly fine in a game as you have to not only know that you’ll spawn really soon (so you’re keeping track of the spawn timer in your head), but you also have to balance your run to the objective with that of the other teams’ otherwise your team will be a man down and will lose. That’s a lot of stuff that goes into making that decision, and that decision could easily win or lose a game.

The game doesn’t penalize you for killing yourself, but you can still be penalized by the other players for doing that.That seems like a pretty good tradeoff to me, as you still have to worry about the decision you’ve made.

By the way, what type of game do you think isn’t incredibly simplistic? Even in CS I can think of times where I would purposely put myself in a situation to just carelessly give up my virtual life, lol.

(Humate) #20

…lots of stuff about etqw… and /respawn

On salvage when we could make spawn hosts on the last objective, we would offer these to our 4 “decoys” (keep in mind this is 6v6). When timed correctly with the spawn wave timer, they would engage the enemy bait them away from the objective - while 2 aggressors would do assisted double plants… the decoys then /kill on the dime. Most of the time, the enemy doesnt know about the spawnhosts, so they assume they have enough time to engage the planters and defuse. But what happens is they get sandwhiched by the same guys who baited them and the aggressors who planted, with the added bonus of the enemy already being low on HP from the first engagement.

Another really simple one we used to do salvage (remember its stopwatch), was all /kill into infiltrator after the mining laser… teleport over as a suprise attack, cap spawn then /kill into normal classes. On the surface, it doesnt seem that big of a deal. But stopwatch is about shaving time… and against a team thats of equal skill that usually = win. You shave about 40seconds to 1.5 minutes off a normal bunker charge approach. Also means you dont need to 4v6 on the mining laser phase so you can get early charges on the bunkers.

edit: soz for off-topic post :c