Castle Eltz Beta1 Release

(Diego) #41

Ok, played it a few more times as both teams. Here is what I know with a 6 vs 6 game.

  1. You should ignore my previous comments about trying to include the terrain from the first allied spawn area somewhere closer to the objective. I studied the map more and I don’t see anything like that being necessary for gameplay other than the fact that it would be a cool area to fight in.

  2. A rebuildable objective like the Generator should be a satchel objective. Because it is so close to the Axis spawn, it is very simple for them to rebuild it and defend it since the Axis have the high ground advantage on this map in every location. A very small amount of white fog might help as well. Not enough to actually clip any geometry. Just barely enough to add some atmosphere and make it harder to snipe the very long distances. Your frame rate is so good, you can easily afford this.

  3. Some extra cover around the Teleporter objective might help too. Maybe some rocks or Ancient Ruins on the ground area, or some crates or statues or something on the walkways around the circle. This area is basically a killing field since the Axis all use the teleporter to get to higher ground.

  4. I think the small walls around the river need to have a few more broken spots to make it easier to get around. Those small walls are a big barrier when you are trying to jump over them up hill. It just leaves you exposed to sniper fire for that much longer. I know that is the whole point. Just an extra one or two so that you don’t have to run the full length of the river to find a spot that you can get through.

  5. You should add some kind of safeguard against an ally going prone when he teleports. At first glance I liked the idea of delaying my exit from the teleporter to confuse the axis. But I realized that you can have some allied asshole stay prone in the Vortex for the duration of the map and ruin the whole game. If you can’t fix the prone bug, then just add a timer to the vortex to inflict damage on anyone that stays inside more than 5 seconds.

  6. If the alllies lose the forward spawn, it is a very long run from the initial spawn back to the CP, not to mention even worse to get to the objective. You should consider the time it takes to reach the objectives and balance the spawn times accordingly. Typically, when you spawn inside the cp house, everyone runs to the center tunnel to go for the objective. Nobody even bothers to run outside because they will get sniped from across the map. Hitting that Deep underground lake really slows you down. It can take over 60 seconds just to reach the objective. If you spawn from the very back, it can take probably 2 minutes to run to the objective. - That’s a long way to run just to get shot by a sniper in the wide open field.

  7. There needs to be some sort of system in place to either allow the allies to keep the forward spawn, or make it more difficult for them to lose it. Here are some ideas that came to mind:

The allies can construct a CP defense barrier that must be destroyed before the CP can be destroyed?

Replace the CP spawning with a spawn flag. Then allow the allies to permanently keep the forward spawn if they have dynamited two entrances into the castle? (A dynamite entrance would replace one of the gates tied to the generator probably. )I would then just move the Allies CP to the house directly across the river.

Or you could have the Axis spawn initially in the house on the allies side of the river. Give the allies an objective on that side of the river that needs to be destroyed first. This would allow you to have some combat on that side. But it needs to be an easy objective that would only take the allies 5 minutes or so. After the allies destroy that objective, they could then spawn inside that house across from the CP. It’s not much, but it would probably eliminate 20 seconds of running per spawn. Then you could leave the CP spawn system intact. The run from the main House across the river to the CP house, or to one of the entraces to the Castle is not so bad from there. Maybe you would just have a Tank or something in the courtyard they would have to destroy? If you did this, you would probably need to barricade the side route with some kind of defense. Or, even simpler, it could just be a constructable spawn point?

Again, I’m just running some ideas by you. My friends love the map. But everyone is asking me to modify the script to lock the forward spawn for the allies and to either make the Generator a satchel objective, or remove the ability for the Axis to reconstruct it.

(Diego) #42

EUREKA!!

I think I’ve come up with a the perfect compromise that requires the least amount of work:

  1. Leave the 2 gated entrances tied to the Power generator. But make the Generator a Satchel objective.

  2. Use a Flag Capture Spawnpoint in the CP house. Use this location as the Axis first spawn.

  3. Make the CP a neutral CP that can be built by either team. You can leave it where it is.

  4. Inside the CP house, you currently have a Hallway/Tunnel entrance that is open. Add a big Blast Door in front of the Entrance as a Dynamite Objective. Once the Allies Dynamite this Door, they permanently capture the CP house. This objective is still close enough to the Axis spawn that they have a chance at recapturing the flag and disarming the dynamite. You will also get more ground level fighting instead of just sniping across the map.

  5. Add a water pump to the Caves to drain the level of water in the Lake. This will give the allies a chance to balance out how long it takes to get to the objective from the underground routes. But the axis can still counterbalance this back into their favor. You could put the Generator on the Axis side of the lake if it makes it too easy for the Allies.

These two new objective ideas are tried and true methods of securing a location, and increasing or restricting the speed at which the attackers are able to advance. You should still consider the possibility that you might want to play around with spawn times, or maybe reduce the number routes into the Castle if this becomes too easy for Allies. But I think these basic changes would give you the biggest return in gameplay balance.

(FireFly) #43

Thanks Diego for the great feedback you posted. Very useful and helpful information that I needed.

When I first started this map the original objectives were to (1) escort a Sd.Kfz 222 from the village towards the bridge (2) Built the bridge and escort the vehicle towards the castle gate ( castle had only 1 entrance back then) (3) dynamite the gate - after this allies would spawn at the cp (4) dynamite the teleporter. When the map was halfway done I decided to replace the objectives because the old ones reminded me of another map I made in the past: V1rocket. This was also a ‘winter’ map and had the same objectives…

One of the main problems of the current beta1 version is that there aren’t any stages in the map. Like you mention most of the time allies are either fighting over the cp / spawn or over the Generator. I like the idea of having axis first spawn at the cp and put a flag capture in there: Once allies capture the flag AND destroy the generator - with dynamite- the east & west gate will open and from then on allies will spawn at the cp.

I’ve already started moving the cp-building a bit more towards the village so there’s more room for fighting. The building itself needs to be a bit bigger as there will also be some fighting inside over the flag…I will also attempt to make it easier for allies to reach the cp building. The first objective (destroying the tunnel grate) should remain intact. This can be used as a shortcut to reach the cp building for the allies. A third gate should be added - powered by the generator- to prevent allies to access the cave section towards the teleporter, before they have destroyed the generator.

I like the idea of having a water pump at the caves, but on the other hand I don’t like to add yet another objective. This might distract players from the main objective… Instead I will add some more ground / stones to the caves or lower the water level.

Btw: I must have tested the teleporter over a thousand times, made sure that you couldn’t get stuck in there and even constructed a kind of saveguard incase someone managed to break the mapscript for the teleporter. But ofcourse I didn’t tested what happens if you go prone when teleported. Nice find…

ok… The original plan was to release a beta1 version and after gathering feedback release a final version. So I could start working on my next project. However I think It would be wise to release a beta2 version instead because some of the changes I´m about to make will have some impact on gameplay…

(Diego) #44

I think your changes will work really well. I look forward to the second Beta.

I’m kind of curious about something. From a logical viewpoint, what makes the gate that you blow with dynamite so special. In theory, wouldn’t blowing the generator simply open that one too since it opens all the rest? This is just a technicality, but I think there should be a valid reason why the allies have to blow this gate separately from all the rest. And more importantly, if this gate can be destroyed by dynamite, what makes the other gates so special that they can not be destroyed with dynamite also? I’m not saying the objectives should be any different. I guess I just think that there should be something visually different about this gate that demonstrates why this entrance is not connected to the generator. Maybe this one should be the team door entrance that they destroy with dynamite since both of those tunnels lead to the same place. Then make the other entrance open with the generator?

One more thing with the teleporter. I believe you have about 6 teleporter destinations, correct? I am concerned about what will happen once everyone becomes very familiar with these locations. We are only playing a 6 vs 6 games at work. But when you play on servers with more people, I don’t see anything that could prevent the Axis from using the teleporter to get to all 6 destinations, and then just set up camp at those spots and wait for an Ally player to teleport in front of them.

Once an Ally teleports, it does take you a split second to get your bearings and decide which direction to run. I can easily see the Axis abusing this. All they need to do is position defenders right behind all 6 of your teleport locations and shank you in the back with a Knife as soon as you appear. Or panzer you, or whatever…

To cut back on the potential for teleporte destination camping, I think you should either increase the number of random destinations, or use a completely different set of destinations for the axis players. What do you think?

By the way, this is just for looks, but I think it would be nice to have some kind of energy field traveling from the Crystals to the base of the teleporter. This will give players a visual effect to see that the teleporter is drawing power from the crystals. Also, if the beam is turned off once the player steals the crystals, it will be easy to see from a distance that the crystals have been taken, just in case the defenders missed the “objective taken” messages. Also, is there a flash or teleporter effect that occurs when a player enters the teleporter? I think I’ve seen them when exiting myself, but I haven’t noticed one when I watch someone else enter the teleporter.

I remember playing V1 rocketbase. Huge map. I downloaded that one so we could try it at work again. I think the last time we played it, Allies couldn’t get the bridge built. Axis Artillery was just destroying them. But we will give it another round to see now it plays out.

(FireFly) #45

Sorry for the late reply, But last week my new pc arrive that I ordered and it came with windows 7 installed… After a full week of frustration - I couldn’t get online because there aren’t any win7 drivers for my linksys router, there aren’t any win7 drivers for my 2 years old printer, 3dsmax 5 kept crashing, several programs refused to install because they need the 64 bit version, not able to save maps in gtkradiant etc…etc… I did a format on my hard disc and installed win xp instead…

But back on topic :slight_smile:

I agree that from a logical viewpoint it would make more sense to link the tunnel grate to the generator. However, like I mentioned in my previous post: eltz_beta1 doesn’t contain any stages… Normally you would have 2 or more stages in a map. The first stage should be extremely easy for the attacking team, 2nd one should be harder… and so on until the last stage that should be very hard to accomplish. Technicality the tunnel grate is the first stage: very easy to do…

I don’t see it as a major problem that players become familiar with the teleporter destinations. I think that axis players will be more focussed on defending /camping the crystals instead of the teleporter distentions. I could add a total of 8,10 or 12 teleport destinations, but I don’t think that it would make any difference.

I’m planning to do a bit of redesigning the teleporter itself. Like you mention It should have some sort of energy field surrounding the crystals that turns off once the crystals are stolen. I also want the top of the teleporter to be rotating. I’ll have to experiment if this can be done without an animated md3. I still haven’t found a solution for the etpro bug that doesn’t display the roq shaders correctly… I’ll see if I can replace the roq shaders with animated shaders instead.

V1rocket was my very first map released for w:et. Half of the map was ported over from an abandoned sp map for rtcw. The map has it flaws and has some fps issues. Although it never became a popular map - like tramfight for example - some servers still have it on rotation…

Btw: Any change we can expect some alpha or beta screenshots from your next Praetoria map? :slight_smile:

(nukits) #46

Is this map running in any servers ? would like to try it online :slight_smile:

(FireFly) #47

http://et.splatterladder.com/?mod=serverlist&where=map&mapname=eltz_beta1 will show you the servers that are hosting the map in real time.

(nukits) #48

Thank you !

(huPoo) #49

I think the map would be better looking if it was night-time…At the moment it is so bright there is no need for light compile at all…

(CyburK) #50

this is by far the best looking map for wolf et (including the original ones)

congratulations real nice work

(Detoeni) #51

One of the best looking maps I’v seen in donkeys years. Hats of to yer mate.

You might want to have a run round with “/r_clear 1”, it shows a few small things you might want to fix.
:wink:

(Diego) #52

[QUOTE=FireFly;230210]

Btw: Any change we can expect some alpha or beta screenshots from your next Praetoria map? :)[/QUOTE]

I’ll see what I can do. I wanted to make sure that I wasn’t going to change my sky to something else. Tried something out last night and it didn’t work so I’ll probably just stick with what I have even though the stars are kind of splotchy.

I think I’m going to experiment with music in this map as if it were a single player mission. Been playing a lot of Mass Effect 2 lately and the way they use music in that game is fantastic. So I thought I might try some basic music design with some old school RTCW music.

By the way, if you replace your electrical effects ROQ videos with animated shaders, would you mind if I use those? I have some electrical effects that I used in Mission Two, but yours are much nicer. I’d probably shift the images to a different color so they would not be identical. Still haven’t decided if I’ll use electrical stuff in Mission Three or not. But thought I’d ask just in case I do.

(Avoc) #53

Diego: I am currently rendering a pretty nice night-sky, to be used as part of the finalized HQ skybox set. Perhaps you can have use of it.

(Diego) #54

I’ll be happy to take a look at your new skybox. But I have to have a sky that has dense clouds on the edges. My current skybox is mostly clouds with a small patch of sky, moon, and stars visible. But I am using heavy fog for distance clipping. Otherwise my fps will be in the crapper for most players.

I thought about using the fog mask type of sky like the one in Radar. But the spherical mask is boring. I prefer the variety in the break in clouds that I can get with a 6 view map. Unfortunately, I haven’t found any way to use a 6 view map of clouds combined with a tiled version of stars. Stars in the 6 view images look like pixelated blobs.

Also thought about using the sunshader command to place a better moon image that the one embedded in my 6 view maps, but I haven’t figured out how to control the position of the moon.

BTW, I wanted to PM you so that we don’t hijack this thread for my map. But your inbox is full.

(Avoc) #55

Inbox is now empty, and with that, no more hijacking!

(Tardis) #56

Hi There I am one of the Omin-Bot team Members working on a 0.8 Omin-Bot realse for the bots.

I would like to see doors on the lift, as I have noticed when you use the teleporter you get transported to the second level and have to use the lift to get to base level, the lift is fine but adding doors to the lift would easer to get bots in and out using the lift.

could you ? use some automatic doors , eg doors stay open till inside button is pushed…

Im no map maker so I dont know how easy this would be …:rolleyes:

(FireFly) #57

Sorry for the late reply Tardis,

Unfortunately there will be no beta2 version of this map because of copyright issues. Although the beta2 version is - or was - completely finished , I cannot release it. I’ve put the whole castle eltz map on hold and am working on a new map atm: I’m sure that in the near future I will rework the castle eltz map and release it under a different name…

I’d like to thank to all players that took the time to test the map and reported any issues and bugs.

(Avoc) #58

But there are no copyright issues

(stealth6) #59

lol, funny read.
Freedom of speech?

Pretty funny seems they just went pure on revenge, because you called them names :s

As Avoc said I bet they still don’t really have anything to go to court with, but I can understand that you just cba with this as it’s pretty ridiculous.

Anyway good luck and hope to see more from you in the future! :smiley:

(acQu) #60

The reason why they treat you that hard is probably because they dont know a sh"t. They never played games, never heard of anything like “open source” and now they think you somehow gain money with that.

And even if you dont, they simply would be too stupid to find that out, so they just threaten you, so that in all cases they are right. Kind of sh"t when you have to deal with persons like that, who are out of time.

However simply rename it to “elts” “ehltz” “uhltz” “luhlz” :slight_smile: