Can we get shotguns nerfed to the ground yet? Like Phantom level nerfed?


(_retired_) #21

[quote=“Fiktio;80789”]If player find a shotgun not being at good shape, it doesn’t matter is the player using Phantom, Fragger, Skyhammer or any other merc.[/quote]Yeah, but do you know how many people still find example Phantoms annoying?

[quote=“Fiktio;80789”]Giving constructive feedback and giving even negative feedback does not mean that we are whining here. Though I have to agree that the main post itself has a small lack of constructive feedback. :([/quote]This was half of my point I made.
Just whining and no solutions but some kind of banning of some merc weapons because mr. invincible cannot handle the heat.

There was no conscructive feedback. None.

[quote=“Fiktio;80789”]I understand that you - very likely - dislike Phantom as a merc or Phantom players in general, but please be reasonable. [/quote]It’s kind of hard to dislike Phantom players since I’m one of myself. I just see the attitude behind some of them being quite…disturbing.

[quote=“Merciless;80804”]“Because he was broken beyond any reasonable thought.” lol :D[/quote]Yes, because “scrub” like me back then could entirely OWN people.
His abilities combined were just totally unbalanced compared to any other merc.

[quote=“Merciless;80804”]Yeah, you’re definitely part of the scrubs that shed enough tears to cause a global flood.[/quote]Like said I was one of the “scrubs” who played him.

This might come as shocking news but I have Phantom on my lineup and I do play him time to time.

I did once almost shed a real tear and were’ talking about before the neft. It was when complete noobie n my team who couldn’t do anything with Aura and Skyhammer to help the team or even kill (heck he did try) people decided to try out Phantom. Next day when I run into him in match he was leading his team scoresheet. I mean wtf? Change the merc to Phantom and puff!
Yeah, totally balanced and not certainly OP, let’s leave him like this since these amazingly talented players know everything.

[quote=“Merciless;80804”]I can understand your point when you say a shotgun to the face is a hurtful thing and I agree. But I don’t think that when someone swings a Katana at you, he’s suddenly crippled and disabled to a point where he cannot move the upper half of his body.[/quote]You mean before the nerf? Did you play Phantom then? Did your opponents had some kind of chance of saying more than “oh cr…”

[quote=“Merciless;80804”]They just made it easier today for whiners like yourself because luckily for you guys, you were, and probably still are, the majority of the community. Which is one of the reasons why this game is sinking atm. But that’s not your fault. It’s SD’s.[/quote]And who’s currently whining here? Who looks to be the scrub here? :wink:

Mirror, mirror, on the wall…

And please don’t drag the whole community down thinking you are better. You’re not.

You mean the nerfing of Phantom is the reason game is “sinking”… :lol:

No, one of the reasons game is sinking because toxic in game not welcoming behaviour (disrespect, shaming, putting down community rather than embracing it, general dickish behaviour etc.) that is shown also even by the more experienced players (when they should know better) and also the fact some people as so obsessed with their style of playing the game or their favourite merc (which they never complain about but call others as scrubs who might question those mercs abilities as OPish) that once they get owned of something else they start to cry. SD has to listen to everybody to keep things in check and find the right balance. At least in this thread unlike the original post, there are some actual discussion how shotguns operate.

I would imagine that if person plays Phantom regularly and tries to swing Katana he most likely will meet situations against shotgun mercs on close range more than other mercs. It’s good counter for Phantom which might have caused this thread.


(frolicsomeCrane) #22

[quote=“crabbyDimension;80720”]Phantom player rambling about shotguns…and talking about wannabes.

“I want turn invisible and have shield on so I can Katana them to death without them having chance to counter and I’m so good player with it, Oh F! Shotgun! Blew my ninjamask right off! Unfair!!!”

Invisible shielded ninja guy with kek-10 and katana have trouble with clearly underpowered shotgun that might kill them on close range now and then since mr. phantom cannot track them while they are so fast and agile. They don’t have much chance against you in any other range, do they?

Shotgun to the face from close range = cooked nades from any range

You should maybe stop whining and git gud. :wink:

As afterthought shotguns should be made actually more viable, maybe even lowering their damage but that they are able to have second shot off before they get wacky recoil. Now often it’s either kill or miss, which in turn might cause lot of frustation in either of the parties in that combat depending of that result.

EDIT: I added question about them to the Faraleth’s thread for developers.[/quote]

EXCUSE ME?!

https://p8.zdusercontent.com/attachment/629740/IBK15wa4Huq6lQpFEefDkvhjn?token=eyJhbGciOiJkaXIiLCJlbmMiOiJBMTI4Q0JDLUhTMjU2In0..lGSnmxez66gsHTLKxv4tdQ.ayexgCtSigAAy8uiuN4sgPVG8B8OHWcQYWK0mYUSsTjkWtiSc3Keh6JLdimrYBeNQFvZV1NxFbeFKuJ32ztrx8RXzEx2Zw5k9e7ONxdXj55TxgINBTp4YnhMSeYJ_ecpNfj5-h1Ka2OWoE7-t7zYsdthy2C1wYpMGO_jSBi4HOAadxETYlyxIZLy6lKVRWc2S5khGkdQNFntGbfaAe9F9g.UYAQpFmegIpJBU4eoXCSCQ


(_retired_) #23

[quote=“frolicsomeCrane;80842”]EXCUSE ME?!

https://p8.zdusercontent.com/attachment/629740/IBK15wa4Huq6lQpFEefDkvhjn?token=eyJhbGciOiJkaXIiLCJlbmMiOiJBMTI4Q0JDLUhTMjU2In0..lGSnmxez66gsHTLKxv4tdQ.ayexgCtSigAAy8uiuN4sgPVG8B8OHWcQYWK0mYUSsTjkWtiSc3Keh6JLdimrYBeNQFvZV1NxFbeFKuJ32ztrx8RXzEx2Zw5k9e7ONxdXj55TxgINBTp4YnhMSeYJ_ecpNfj5-h1Ka2OWoE7-t7zYsdthy2C1wYpMGO_jSBi4HOAadxETYlyxIZLy6lKVRWc2S5khGkdQNFntGbfaAe9F9g.UYAQpFmegIpJBU4eoXCSCQ[/quote]
So was it one shot kill?
How much health did you have before that?
How often this happens? -Was it one time lucky shot?
How this differs person shooting, you with something else (Br-16 example) or throwing cooked nade?

At least you provided an angle for a discussion. Thank you for that.

EDIT: What I heard was that good players (comp), (not what you would call scrubs) wanted to add range to shotguns because otherwise they wouldn’t be useful at all. Maybe this is the result?


(Merci1ess) #24

[quote=“crabbyDimension;80832”][quote=“Fiktio;80789”]If player find a shotgun not being at good shape, it doesn’t matter is the player using Phantom, Fragger, Skyhammer or any other merc.[/quote]Yeah, but do you know how many people still find example Phantoms annoying?

[quote=“Fiktio;80789”]Giving constructive feedback and giving even negative feedback does not mean that we are whining here. Though I have to agree that the main post itself has a small lack of constructive feedback. :([/quote]This was half of my point I made.
Just whining and no solutions but some kind of banning of some merc weapons because mr. invincible cannot handle the heat.

There was no conscructive feedback. None.

[quote=“Fiktio;80789”]I understand that you - very likely - dislike Phantom as a merc or Phantom players in general, but please be reasonable. [/quote]It’s kind of hard to dislike Phantom players since I’m one of myself. I just see the attitude behind some of them being quite…disturbing.

[quote=“Merciless;80804”]“Because he was broken beyond any reasonable thought.” lol :D[/quote]Yes, because “scrub” like me back then could entirely OWN people.
His abilities combined were just totally unbalanced compared to any other merc.

[quote=“Merciless;80804”]Yeah, you’re definitely part of the scrubs that shed enough tears to cause a global flood.[/quote]Like said I was one of the “scrubs” who played him.

This might come as shocking news but I have Phantom on my lineup and I do play him time to time.

I did once almost shed a real tear and were’ talking about before the neft. It was when complete noobie n my team who couldn’t do anything with Aura and Skyhammer to help the team or even kill (heck he did try) people decided to try out Phantom. Next day when I run into him in match he was leading his team scoresheet. I mean wtf? Change the merc to Phantom and puff!
Yeah, totally balanced and not certainly OP, let’s leave him like this since these amazingly talented players know everything.

[quote=“Merciless;80804”]I can understand your point when you say a shotgun to the face is a hurtful thing and I agree. But I don’t think that when someone swings a Katana at you, he’s suddenly crippled and disabled to a point where he cannot move the upper half of his body.[/quote]You mean before the nerf? Did you play Phantom then? Did your opponents had some kind of chance of saying more than “oh cr…”

[quote=“Merciless;80804”]They just made it easier today for whiners like yourself because luckily for you guys, you were, and probably still are, the majority of the community. Which is one of the reasons why this game is sinking atm. But that’s not your fault. It’s SD’s.[/quote]And who’s currently whining here? Who looks to be the scrub here? :wink:

Mirror, mirror, on the wall…

And please don’t drag the whole community down thinking you are better. You’re not.

You mean the nerfing of Phantom is the reason game is “sinking”… :lol:

No, one of the reasons game is sinking because toxic in game not welcoming behaviour (disrespect, shaming, putting down community rather than embracing it, general dickish behaviour etc.) that is shown also even by the more experienced players (when they should know better) and also the fact some people as so obsessed with their style of playing the game or their favourite merc (which they never complain about but call others as scrubs who might question those mercs abilities as OPish) that once they get owned of something else they start to cry. SD has to listen to everybody to keep things in check and find the right balance. At least in this thread unlike the original post, there are some actual discussion how shotguns operate.

I would imagine that if person plays Phantom regularly and tries to swing Katana he most likely will meet situations against shotgun mercs on close range more than other mercs. It’s good counter for Phantom which might have caused this thread.[/quote]

tl;dr


(frolicsomeCrane) #25

[quote=“crabbyDimension;80845”][quote=“frolicsomeCrane;80842”]EXCUSE ME?!

https://p8.zdusercontent.com/attachment/629740/IBK15wa4Huq6lQpFEefDkvhjn?token=eyJhbGciOiJkaXIiLCJlbmMiOiJBMTI4Q0JDLUhTMjU2In0..lGSnmxez66gsHTLKxv4tdQ.ayexgCtSigAAy8uiuN4sgPVG8B8OHWcQYWK0mYUSsTjkWtiSc3Keh6JLdimrYBeNQFvZV1NxFbeFKuJ32ztrx8RXzEx2Zw5k9e7ONxdXj55TxgINBTp4YnhMSeYJ_ecpNfj5-h1Ka2OWoE7-t7zYsdthy2C1wYpMGO_jSBi4HOAadxETYlyxIZLy6lKVRWc2S5khGkdQNFntGbfaAe9F9g.UYAQpFmegIpJBU4eoXCSCQ[/quote]
So was it one shot kill?
How much health did you have before that?
How often this happens? -Was it one time lucky shot?
How this differs person shooting, you with something else (Br-16 example) or throwing cooked nade?

At least you provided an angle for a discussion. Thank you for that.[/quote]

2 Shots, both to the head due to obvious “clang” sound, I had full 150 hp, stuff like that happened throughout that game.

Did you seriously try to compare a shotgun to the BR for that range? Really?


(_retired_) #26

[quote=“frolicsomeCrane;80848”]2 Shots, both to the head due to obvious “clang” sound, I had full 150 hp, stuff like that happened throughout that game. [/quote]Guy must be one helluva shooter.

[quote=“frolicsomeCrane;80848”]Did you seriously try to compare a shotgun to the BR for that range? Really?[/quote]If you are exposed BR-16 could drop you easily, not sure shotgun should from that range.
Would you accept it if it would happen in shorter range?

Man, I should start playing with shotguns more.

EDIT: But maybe it’s better I leave this discussion so it won’t get closed down. Enjoy.


(frolicsomeCrane) #27

[quote=“crabbyDimension;80852”][quote=“frolicsomeCrane;80848”]2 Shots, both to the head due to obvious “clang” sound, I had full 150 hp, stuff like that happened throughout that game. [/quote]Guy must be one helluva shooter.

[quote=“frolicsomeCrane;80848”]Did you seriously try to compare a shotgun to the BR for that range? Really?[/quote]If you are exposed BR-16 could drop you easily, not sure shotgun should from that range.
Would you accept it if it would happen in shorter range?

Man, I should start playing with shotguns more.
[/quote]

If I took the same damage from a shotgun from close range I would accept it, I don’t see how 2 shotgun headshots wouldn’t instadown a Fragger from close range. But from that range… 2 Headshots… With a shotgun…

Whatever you’re selling me, I’m not having any of it.


(_retired_) #28

[quote=“frolicsomeCrane;80854”]If I took the same damage from a shotgun from close range I would accept it, I don’t see how 2 shotgun headshots wouldn’t instadown a Fragger from close range. But from that range… 2 Headshots… With a shotgun…

Whatever you’re selling me, I’m not having any of it.[/quote]Personally I must say that I don’t know the current situation of shotgun fall off damage. Sounds strange though.


(frolicsomeCrane) #29

[quote=“crabbyDimension;80856”][quote=“frolicsomeCrane;80854”]If I took the same damage from a shotgun from close range I would accept it, I don’t see how 2 shotgun headshots wouldn’t instadown a Fragger from close range. But from that range… 2 Headshots… With a shotgun…

Whatever you’re selling me, I’m not having any of it.[/quote]Personally I must say that I don’t know the current situation of shotgun fall off damage. Sounds strange though.

[/quote]

With the way I know shotguns work, I should have been sprayed by a few pebbles with most of the shots running in the walls around me, not all of them to my head.


(XavienX) #30

This thread… basically I think all weapons are really balanced so far in this game and each weapon has their own skill gap compared to other ones. In this case, shotguns need good timing and accuracy when you are bunnyhopping or facing other people face to face and could miss a lot of shots when others are strafing side to side.


(Fiktio) #31

[quote=“crabbyDimension;80832”][quote=“Fiktio;80789”]If player find a shotgun not being at good shape, it doesn’t matter is the player using Phantom, Fragger, Skyhammer or any other merc.[/quote]Yeah, but do you know how many people still find example Phantoms annoying?
[/quote]

I’m aware of that there are many people that find Phantom annoying, but there are also a lot people that find other mercs annoying as well. There are people who find Fletcher’s sticky bombs annoying, some find Rhino’s minigun annoying and etc. Impossible to make everyone happy.

Mercs are different, people are different and opinions are different.
However in my eyes those opinions are still valuable, if they are explained by constructive way, but there’s no reason why we shouldn’t respect opinions just because it comes from player X that prefers to play with merc Y.

I believe that if the main post would’ve included more constructive criticism about shotguns, this whole thread probably would have started with different kind of tone.


(Gi.Am) #32

Getting two shotted at this distance would have been a a very lucky occurence its possible but just so (more likely that something else got damage in, maybe a enemy outside your view).

Some math to illustrate (based on the spreadsheet hope numbers are still up to date).
At maximum range (600 units) a pellet deals 5 damage.
The Remburg has 12 pellets if all pellets land in the body you would get 60 damage per shot. Fragger is a big target and I could believe, that the distance in the screen is just so that this is possible. Looking at the pattern of the shotguns I could also believe that maybe a couple of pellets hit the head, lets say 3 and the rest goes into the body. You would be facing 75 damage per shot. Considering that the pattern of the shotgun is fixed it would be possible to consistently land that ammount of damage, shooting the same spot twice so exactly 150 damage.

There are however quite a few ifs, a single pellet astray or not hitting the head and you would survive, as I said more likely that some other damage source was present.

3 Hits would have been certain death tho, as would a single headshot from any shotgun at closerange.


(Eox) #33

There’s multiple reasons why SMGs are much more played than shotguns in competitive :

  • Your DPS is harshly cut down at mid range and higher, due to the pellet spread and falloff.
  • Headshots will only be efficient at point blank, while any other weapon stay deadly at any range if you can hit heads reliably.
  • You are outranged by everything. In an open space, your shotgun in hand, by the time you go head to head with another player, you’ll very likely end dead before making half the distance to reach him.

Shotguns are far from being overpowered, but they do stomp a bit hard in pubs. Nothing too bad though, it’s far from being like how Phantom was some weeks ago. However, I seriously doubt these could even be balanced for comp… Shotguns are pretty hard to balance.

[quote=“frolicsomeCrane;80842”]

EXCUSE ME?!

https://p8.zdusercontent.com/attachment/629740/IBK15wa4Huq6lQpFEefDkvhjn?token=eyJhbGciOiJkaXIiLCJlbmMiOiJBMTI4Q0JDLUhTMjU2In0..lGSnmxez66gsHTLKxv4tdQ.ayexgCtSigAAy8uiuN4sgPVG8B8OHWcQYWK0mYUSsTjkWtiSc3Keh6JLdimrYBeNQFvZV1NxFbeFKuJ32ztrx8RXzEx2Zw5k9e7ONxdXj55TxgINBTp4YnhMSeYJ_ecpNfj5-h1Ka2OWoE7-t7zYsdthy2C1wYpMGO_jSBi4HOAadxETYlyxIZLy6lKVRWc2S5khGkdQNFntGbfaAe9F9g.UYAQpFmegIpJBU4eoXCSCQ[/quote]

This does not prove anything sadly. There’s no way to tell how much HP you had before this, or you could have been hit by a sniper right before the Aura decided to (try to) snipe you with the antithesis of a sniper rifle.


(Merci1ess) #34

[quote=“Eox;80938”]There’s multiple reasons why SMGs are much more played than shotguns in competitive :

  • Your DPS is harshly cut down at mid range and higher, due to the pellet spread and falloff.
  • Headshots will only be efficient at point blank, while any other weapon stay deadly at any range if you can hit heads reliably.
  • You are outranged by everything. In an open space, your shotgun in hand, by the time you go head to head with another player, you’ll very likely end dead before making half the distance to reach him.

Shotguns are far from being overpowered, but they do stomp a bit hard in pubs. Nothing too bad though, it’s far from being like how Phantom was some weeks ago. However, I seriously doubt these could even be balanced for comp… Shotguns are pretty hard to balance.

For me personally… It’s not that I think shotguns are OP, it’s the fact that people were crying over the Katana and it got nerfed for it. Yet the shotgun stays the way it is and does pretty much the same thing that the Katana does. The only difference is that Phantom’s cloak was worth a damn at that time and it was harder to see him coming. We could’ve heard him fine though… Although people were too salty and just wanted a nerf for their lack of know how. Either that or they were just plain deaf.


(frolicsomeCrane) #35

[quote=“Fiktio;80880”][quote=“crabbyDimension;80832”][quote=“Fiktio;80789”]If player find a shotgun not being at good shape, it doesn’t matter is the player using Phantom, Fragger, Skyhammer or any other merc.[/quote]Yeah, but do you know how many people still find example Phantoms annoying?
[/quote]
I believe that if the main post would’ve included more constructive criticism about shotguns, this whole thread probably would have started with different kind of tone. [/quote]

I sure do know how to stir up controversy, don’t I?


(Eox) #36

The Katana wasn’t the issue, though that “beyblade” thing seemed off (but hillarious). The issue with Phantom was more how broken and badly designed his ability was (and still is, though he’s now almost harmless). Yet people indeed though it was the Katana.

Getting back on shotguns, those are fine if you consider that Fletcher, Aura and Proxy can’t use a refractive armor. Real reason why Phantom was hated : armor and rush at people. It felt like dying in cheap ways.


(Fiktio) #37

[quote=“frolicsomeCrane;81196”][quote=“Fiktio;80880”][quote=“crabbyDimension;80832”][quote=“Fiktio;80789”]If player find a shotgun not being at good shape, it doesn’t matter is the player using Phantom, Fragger, Skyhammer or any other merc.[/quote]Yeah, but do you know how many people still find example Phantoms annoying?
[/quote]
I believe that if the main post would’ve included more constructive criticism about shotguns, this whole thread probably would have started with different kind of tone. [/quote]

I sure do know how to stir up controversy, don’t I?[/quote]

At least you made interesting thread, let’s say by that way.
Basically all what you said that shotguns are annoying, but for example what do you think, how those shotguns should get nerfed? Range, damage, something else?
Being more specific would have been better than saying: “Phantom level nerf.”

Of course Phantom was nerfed harshly, but after all you didn’t give any feedback about which parts of shotgun should get nerfed.

So may I ask now which parts of shotgun you find annoying?
How should they get changed?


(frolicsomeCrane) #38

[quote=“Fiktio;81327”][quote=“frolicsomeCrane;81196”][quote=“Fiktio;80880”][quote=“crabbyDimension;80832”][quote=“Fiktio;80789”]If player find a shotgun not being at good shape, it doesn’t matter is the player using Phantom, Fragger, Skyhammer or any other merc.[/quote]Yeah, but do you know how many people still find example Phantoms annoying?
[/quote]
I believe that if the main post would’ve included more constructive criticism about shotguns, this whole thread probably would have started with different kind of tone. [/quote]

I sure do know how to stir up controversy, don’t I?[/quote]

At least you made interesting thread, let’s say by that way.
Basically all what you said that shotguns are annoying, but for example what do you think, how those shotguns should get nerfed? Range, damage, something else?
Being more specific would have been better than saying: “Phantom level nerf.”

Of course Phantom was nerfed harshly, but after all you didn’t give any feedback about which parts of shotgun should get nerfed.

So may I ask now which parts of shotgun you find annoying?
How should they get changed?
[/quote]

My main issue is this Shotgun Sniping gig that’s going on.


(Fiktio) #39

[quote=“frolicsomeCrane;81432”][quote=“Fiktio;81327”][quote=“frolicsomeCrane;81196”][quote=“Fiktio;80880”][quote=“crabbyDimension;80832”][quote=“Fiktio;80789”]If player find a shotgun not being at good shape, it doesn’t matter is the player using Phantom, Fragger, Skyhammer or any other merc.[/quote]Yeah, but do you know how many people still find example Phantoms annoying?
[/quote]
I believe that if the main post would’ve included more constructive criticism about shotguns, this whole thread probably would have started with different kind of tone. [/quote]

I sure do know how to stir up controversy, don’t I?[/quote]

At least you made interesting thread, let’s say by that way.
Basically all what you said that shotguns are annoying, but for example what do you think, how those shotguns should get nerfed? Range, damage, something else?
Being more specific would have been better than saying: “Phantom level nerf.”

Of course Phantom was nerfed harshly, but after all you didn’t give any feedback about which parts of shotgun should get nerfed.

So may I ask now which parts of shotgun you find annoying?
How should they get changed?
[/quote]

My main issue is this Shotgun Sniping gig that’s going on.[/quote]

Then I share the same opinion with you.
Shotgun shouldn’t be really that effective from far away.


(watsyurdeal) #40

And yet Shotguns are probably the least used and overall least effective.

You’re much better off using an SMG if you can get one, since you’ll be able to hit targets more easily, and assuming you have good aim, will kill a lot faster or about the same as a Shotgun.

The only thing shotguns have are 1 shot kills, and even those aren’t guaranteed. So why we would nerf them I’ll never know.