Burst weapon changes!!!

([i]Skree-*) #1

I don’t quite know how any of you guys are feeling about this change but in my oppinion it changed the burst weapon from a viable option against fully automatic weapons to a rather underwhelming means of dealing damage, only even somewhat better than assult rifles at veeery long ranges and even then you’d have to manage the recoil right to hit well enough to down someone.
The burst weapons had decent enough dmg to deal with someone at close range if you had good aim but were highly outclassed by all other fully automatic weapons.
At medium range they did fairly well against smg users but were still outclassed by a normally/decently skilled assult rifle user.
And for longer ranges they clearly outclassed fully automatic weapons (obviously not counting sniper rifles since they are in a league of their own)
If you even mess up only one burst most of the times now you are clearly fucked!
Therefore at least in my oppinion I’d really wish for the assult riffles to have at least a little less brutal of a delay time…

To conclude my point I was really in love with the BR-16 and Stark AR, and actually was pretty “stoked” when the update cam out and I pulled a gold stoker with the Stark, but now I find myself rather using the Timik (BTW I got the T52 in Cobalt <3) than using my beloved Burst weapons.

At least for me it highly impacted and changed the way I play this game since I mained BR-16 Arty, Skyhammer and Fragger up until now and it makes me sad to see all those great stats I have with those mercs in combination with my “favouite weapon” but know that those at least in the near future won’t rise very much at all since I find myself not being able to do as good as before.

Don’t get me wrong a good player with good aim deffinietly can outplay someone easily with those guns, as I do so myself, but if you are like me and sometimes have a bad day or two, those guns just don’t feel as good as they once were and it makes me sad… :frowning:

Suggestions (those are individual so I don’t request all of them at once but just one of them):

1.At least cut the burst delay by 1/3 each
2. Buff the dmg to a point where it would make a significant change in possible time to kill
3. Somewhat a hybrid between the first 2 1/4 dely and a little dmg buff
4. Revert them back to their original state

Thank you for reading this insanely long post on the “new” burst weapons in Dirty Bomb since they deffinietly don’t feel like the old ones.

(Ctrix) #2

Why even have burst weapons in the first place? Automatic weapons can already manually be burst fired. I never understood the logic when I played Battlefield either. In Battlefield they were also garbage. What’s the point?
Burst rifles are actually way worse at range because the recoil comes in bursts, making is super hard to control unless you spent extensive time training with it. On automatic weapons you control the recoil yourself by simply stopping the burst, making it very very easy to use at all ranges.
So again, what’s the point?

([i]Skree-*) #3

[quote=“Ctrix;101949”]Why even have burst weapons in the first place? Automatic weapons can already manually be burst fired. I never understood the logic when I played Battlefield either. In Battlefield they were also garbage. What’s the point?
Burst rifles are actually way worse at range because the recoil comes in bursts, making is super hard to control unless you spent extensive time training with it. On automatic weapons you control the recoil yourself by simply stopping the burst, making it very very easy to use at all ranges.
So again, what’s the point?[/quote]

While I do get your point in the fact that burst Weapons are kinda useless, I and many others actually preffer them over fully automatic weapons since they (at least in my oppinion) have a very unique and strong feel to them.
Considering the fact, that the burst weapons of Dirty Bomb have never really been strong (too much recoil, it blooms faaaaaar too much and they don’t even really offer a time to kill advantage)
Now all of the previously mentioned “perks” of those weapons are even worse

If I would have to describe a perfect burst weapon it would have a minimum delay if at all since real weapons set to burst don’t have a delay either
slightly higher dmg than an average assult rifle
very little bloom if there is a burst delay and if there isn’t very little bloom if there is some time between bursts (much like the delay but manually)
and veeery high range.

I know very well, that we’ll never get something like the M16 from cod4/mw3 (fav cod m16s)
But I at least want viable burst weapons…

(Ctrix) #4

Make no mistake I love guns that hit hard and require accuracy. In Battlefield 3 I always used the G3 and SCAR-H. They have low automatic rates of fire, but the bullet does more damage. So you get high damage headshots, and even on bodyshots you do at least equal if not slightly more dps compared to “easy mode” high firerate guns, that don’t make that big of a dps difference if you miss a couple shots.

I love playing Kira with the Dreiss AR. It’s just ridiculous how garbage the gun is.

It’s the same problem as in Battlefield. Burst fire weapons just plain have no role. Since all distances in video games are so short, they never fall outside of an Assault Rifles range. People who play sniper are only viable in the first place because of the huge damage bonus. I outsnipe snipers easily with iron sights on my Assault Rifles.
In Battlefield at least you had ranges that long, but even then. I used to say “if you’re out of AR range, you’re irrelevant to the game.” Good luck hitting a moving target at that range with any gun. If you do it really was that: luck

(Terminal_6) #5

Funny, I never was fond of the Stark/BR before this update, but now I’m finally getting some use out of the BR-16 with Kira. (I haven’t tried the Dreiss yet, it’s been worse off for a while and I don’t think an extra 1 dmg per bullet will help it)

Not really sure why I like the BR-16 now. To be honest, I never used it much before, maybe I was just having a really good day when I decided to try it. I think the purpose of the changes was to make them more range-oriented, but this game doesn’t have a lot of fights at range, the relative “long-range” is easily tapped by assault rifles.

I think the RPM nerf on the BR was a bit much, though, especially being paired with the burst interval nerf.

(BloodyGustav) #6

Yes they are pretty much useless now.

Everybody always said the StarkAR was garbage Tier but somehow i was mowing people down left and right with it, sure it was not that great but in combination with a fast Kira you became a jack of all trades.Now all you can do with it is stay on distance and hope the enemy has no Sniper and in cqc you hit the first burst to the head or you are done.

All in all they should revert the BR-16/StarkAR back to the old stats.

(KattiValk) #7

There’s enough threads about this already, post in one of those.

@Ctrix
Burst weapons are meant to increase accuracy and mitigate soldier panic during combat. Burst rifles usually cycle faster than fully automatic contemporaries and will usually pull a tighter grouping as it forces the user to reset their firing stance after each burst (most advanced case being the AN-94 which was meant to get both rounds out of the barrel before the gun actually felt the recoil). It also ensures soldiers do not waste ammunition as one trigger pull is guaranteed to expend no more than however many shots are in one burst so Pvt. Scott doesn’t blast through his entire mag while pissing himself over the company sized formation currently shelling the wits out of his position.

Why do they suck in games though? Every video game character is basically a Tier 1 operator that can line sights up instantly and pull a near perfect grouping without even trying. Also, one burst is usually enough to drop a man, but this is almost never the case in games.

(FalC_16) #8

Arty with BR-16 was my way of handling things. It was my most favorite set up. Now its ruined. I do not really understand why they nerf a gun which is not used that much anyway. I think there are more urgent balance issues than this.

I would vote for OPs option No. 4. Put them back as they were.

(ProfPlump) #9

[quote=“Ctrix;101949”]Why even have burst weapons in the first place? Automatic weapons can already manually be burst fired. I never understood the logic when I played Battlefield either. In Battlefield they were also garbage. What’s the point?
Burst rifles are actually way worse at range because the recoil comes in bursts, making is super hard to control unless you spent extensive time training with it. On automatic weapons you control the recoil yourself by simply stopping the burst, making it very very easy to use at all ranges.
So again, what’s the point?[/quote]

They’re worth having in game if the game correctly makes them a little better than fully automatics, if you can time your bursts right. In Battlefield they made it so that even if you timed the bursts perfectly, you’d still be outclassed hugely by the automatics, which was stupid.

Prior to this patch, Dirty Bomb’s burst fire weapons were actually able to compete with and in many cases be better than the automatics (but not to the point where it makes them completely OP - they still have inconsistencies with human error), and that was great. But now they’re terrible.

(Ctrix) #10

I wasn’t talking about real life stuff.

[quote=“ProfPlump;102146”]
Prior to this patch, Dirty Bomb’s burst fire weapons were actually able to compete with and in many cases be better than the automatics.[/quote]
Ehh, I tried all of them, and wasn’t impressed. Given, I might’ve been after some practice, but I was really struggling with the BR-16. The Stark is just a joke. That scope. No thanks. Not even gonna touch that garbage.
I actually kinda liked the Dreiss, but I wouldn’t have called it competitive to ARs. Definitely still liking it on Kira though, my kinda sniper rifle. Not sure if it takes more bullets now than before. Takes a couple that’s for sure.

(KattiValk) #11

@Ctrix
You do realize the reason why we have burst weapons in most of the games that have them is because they exist IRL right? You ask what the point of burst rifles are and that is the point. They’re in the game for either homage or variety, but they exist because of their real life counterparts.

(yusayu) #12

Yup, they got Bullshitted, just like Phantom in his melee patch.
What I dont get is why.

Burst Rifles were never powerful, if you wanted to kill fools with your weapon, you played Fragger, took the M4 and sat on about 20-30% more Movementspeed than you actually deserved. +you had the grenade. Kira and Arty could never compete with that, not just cause of their weapon choice but also due to the limit of their skills which makes them only a fraction as good as any skill that is not limited by having vision to the sky.
And then they make the Burst Rifles even weaker than before even tho they werent even close to the power of the M4 before the update. Who tested this stuff and what kind of drugs did he take? And why didnt they just buff the Burst Rifles slightly and nerfed the M4 the way it deserves to be nerfed?!

No, instead they nerfed something that was a bit on the weak side already even more and left the overpowered stuff as it is.
Now we have Burst Rifles that have no Role in the game and a ton of useless Loadout Cards, thx SD.

(Ctrix) #13

[quote=“Incoming;102174”]@Ctrix
You do realize the reason why we have burst weapons in most of the games that have them is because they exist IRL right? You ask what the point of burst rifles are and that is the point. They’re in the game for either homage or variety, but they exist because of their real life counterparts.[/quote]

See, that’s just not a good enough reason

(KattiValk) #14

@Ctrix
You make it sound like game devs actually make sense most of the time. :tongue:

(tome_weng) #15

@Ctrix In most games like battlefield with their burst guns I completely agree with you, if it’s all the same stats and slightly better accuracy in exchange for a massive amount of inconvenience there’s no point. Real life should not have any impact on a game as intentionally ludicrous as dirty bomb.

I do really like the way they (at least before the update) had the guns set up. Instead of having the bursts replicate normal automatic fire they fire shots (in this case three) at a much faster than usual rate of fire and then have a delay to balance it out, like the AN-94 which was my favourite gun in battlefield three. It gives you a nice middle ground between semi auto weapons like the dreiss and automatic weapons like the M4. You can still do insane damage with headshots and in some cases one shot people but at the same time you get a little bit of forgivingness, if you miss one of your three shots you still come out with at least some damage if you can correct your aim during the burst.

Like I said this is all before the patch, now they have lost a lot of their utility that made them great.

(Ctrix) #16

Funny story. The AN-94 was totally OP in Battlefield 3, but it never blew up because you had to fire it on burst, which was kinda hard to pull off without training. It fired a 3 round burst, but the first two bullets landed right on top of each other, before spread or recoil influenced the grouping. Now, that’s how the gun is supposed to work, but what it meant was you could oneshot headshot people below 30 meters, and at higher ranges, just do a quick double tap. Even at close ranges, you could fire the gun at close to dedicated Assault Rifles. (You could do that with all burst rifles, but the AN-94 was the best of them)
Everyone at Symthic started using the AN-94 once that was discovered. It was a reckfest. I only kept using the G3A3 because I get finger cramps from the burst firing. Also because I really liked it.

(tome_weng) #17

I was always torn between the two but I ended up liking the AN-94 better because I was really bad at tap-firing with the G3 and the AN sort of did that for you with the two-round burst.

(CCP115) #18

SD needs to stop pulling a Valve. Listen to the general community consensus NOT some graph, or raw numbers. They are factual sure, but in a perfect world kind of way.

So what if burst rifles had higher DPS than rifles? In a real game, they would perform worse 90% of the time. You can’t balance a gun from just DPS, it doesn’t work.

([i]Skree-*) #19

[quote=“CCP115;102882”]SD needs to stop pulling a Valve. Listen to the general community consensus NOT some graph, or raw numbers. They are factual sure, but in a perfect world kind of way.

So what if burst rifles had higher DPS than rifles? In a real game, they would perform worse 90% of the time. You can’t balance a gun from just DPS, it doesn’t work.[/quote]

thank you you just pefectly concluded my point in a post this short

(Badmojo) #20

[quote="[i]Skree-*;103157"][quote=“CCP115;102882”]SD needs to stop pulling a Valve. Listen to the general community consensus NOT some graph, or raw numbers. They are factual sure, but in a perfect world kind of way.

So what if burst rifles had higher DPS than rifles? In a real game, they would perform worse 90% of the time. You can’t balance a gun from just DPS, it doesn’t work.[/quote]

thank you you just pefectly concluded my point in a post this short[/quote]

My opinion is that some Splash Damage dev got sand in his @$#@#$@. The BR was balanced and the Stark kinda sucked. They now both really suck.