Burst Rifles vs. Timik and Dreiss: DPS

[JJMAJR]

The burst rifles used to have less DPS than the Timik and the Dreiss. The Timik had enormous recoil and the Dreiss had strong recoil and a semi-automatic action.

The two weapons were buffed because that players saw burst rifles as weak.

I honestly see the burst rifles as very, very powerful, and think they should be compared to the MOA and the Felix instead of assault rifles. Those two weapons had low DPS and were able to kill enemies in one hit to the face. The burst rifles had that same niche too, so their DPS isn’t supposed to be extremely high compared to an automatic weapon.

A semi-automatic assault rifle should have higher DPS because it can’t kill someone instantly with a shot in the face, and it only shoots one bullet at a time. A burst rifle shoots three, providing up to 3 times its individual shot damage and cooling off for a short period before firing again.

I’m not saying that a burst rifle shouldn’t instantly kill on multiple headshots, but it shouldn’t have higher DPS than weapons with enormous recoil if the burst rifles could act like a sniper rifle in the right hands.

And has anyone seen the Timik loadouts? The only good Dreiss loadout is with Redeye, and that’s… rather poor.

Speaking of sniper rifles, Redeye’s Australian. The Steyr AUG is used in real life by the Australian army. What if…
Nah, people would complain.

[ProfPlump]

[quote=“JJMAJR;28059”]The burst rifles used to have less DPS than the Timik and the Dreiss. The Timik had enormous recoil and the Dreiss had strong recoil and a semi-automatic action.

The two weapons were buffed because that players saw burst rifles as weak.

I honestly see the burst rifles as very, very powerful, and think they should be compared to the MOA and the Felix instead of assault rifles. Those two weapons had low DPS and were able to kill enemies in one hit to the face. The burst rifles had that same niche too, so their DPS isn’t supposed to be extremely high compared to an automatic weapon.

A semi-automatic assault rifle should have higher DPS because it can’t kill someone instantly with a shot in the face, and it only shoots one bullet at a time. A burst rifle shoots three, providing up to 3 times its individual shot damage and cooling off for a short period before firing again.

I’m not saying that a burst rifle shouldn’t gib on headshot, but it shouldn’t have higher DPS than weapons with enormous recoil if it could act like a sniper rifle in the right hands.

And has anyone seen the Timik loadouts? The only good Dreiss loadout is with Redeye, and that’s… rather poor.

Speaking of sniper rifles, Redeye’s Australian. The Steyr AUG is used in real life by the Australian army. What if…
Nah, people would complain.[/quote]

Just so you know, “gibbing” a player means when you make them unreviveable. The Stark does not gib on headshot (unless the player is already downed and is rolling around on the floor).

I think that the M4 and Timik are sitting pretty good right now, where they are essentially the go-to weapon for the novice players where it doesn’t take as much skill to use, but they can still pack some serious punch. It’s like in CS:GO, where the AUG has a much more manageable recoil, but lacks the damage output. It’s important that the harder to use weapons to be the most rewarding (in Dirty Bomb’s case - the guns where you have to have much more consistent aim and be able to click at the perfect intervals for the full firerate to be reached). So, no - the Stark doesn’t need a nerf.

HOWEVER, the Dreiss is absolutely shit right now. It should be up their with the Stark and BR in terms of its effectiveness (because it requires much more consistent aim than automatic weapons). However, not only does it not have a very rewarding DPS (even at medium-long range where it is supposed to be used), it has been given so much spread that you either have to ADS and lose your mobility (making yourself an easy target) or you have to hipfire and rely on RNG on all shots except the first three or so (because the spread blooms so fast). So, the Dreiss needs a buff, but no nerf is needed for the Stark. I would suggest that the Dreiss be given infinite range so that it does not lose its damage over distance. This would mean that it would be strong in medium and long ranges, but average in close range.

(Also, the Grandeur is currently in the same situation as the Dreiss - being outclassed by the Stark in every situation - so it should get a buff as well, in my opinion by giving it 100% accuracy while hipfiring for the 1st shot, and also slightly reducing the bloom for follow up shots).

[JJMAJR]

The balancing of this game should be done at the skill ceiling, not at the skill floor.
If a good team’s options are limited, that’s a detriment to the game.

The M4A1 has predictable recoil, which gives it a niche that makes the thing a headshot machine. Thus its DPS isn’t high compared to other weapons, and it has a role for good players.

The Timik doesn’t have any such advantage, it’s just a gun that bad players can pick up and expect to be good with them. The thing is, bad players like using weapons that fit a certain style, and new players don’t use the Timik right away. Thus the Timik is bad.

The Dreiss and Grandeur are things I already know about.

[Drac0rion]

Timik is bad? Dreiss is bad?
Boy I must be horrible then to use THOSE weapons and hope for success…

I mean, I get it, stats here and there, but you know, they’re just different.
A player that can use Dreiss to a level of M4 can do just as good with the M4 as the other player, while the player who can use M4 at the level of the Dreiss user will not use Dreiss as well as the other player.
With Timik and M4 I can’t tell too much of a difference anymore as I’ve practiced them a lot recently, only those really long range shots with Timik are a little questionable to me. But Dreiss? I’d take Dreiss any day over either of the burst rifles, as I just feel much more comfortable with it. I do agree it is a tiny bit below burst rifles, but I can hardly tell the difference(it might also be my fault for running around with a 90hp merc and expect a decent burst shot not to kill me).

Timik I find is in a decent place, but Dreiss, Grandeur and the burstfires should definitely not be buffed by numbers at least. In the right hands all of those guns can outpower an automatic as the skilled player will be able to bring out the higher dps that those guns have.

In my opinion what’s wrong with the guns is that a little before the CW event I believe, SD decided to change burst rifles. I believe they made the bursts stronger, but also increased the delay between bursts to compensate. That change lowered the time to kill needed for those guns which I think is wrong.
Why? Because they gave the gun a new skill ceiling, the guns became harder to use, or rather to get used to, but in the end the guns now had more damage, meaning those more skilled with those specific guns could now outpower the rest while the beginners were just as bad as before, or probably even worse. I didn’t remember anyone mind or complain how the burst rifles were before the change, but somehow SD decided it was for the greater good to differentiate the guns from another. As if being a burst rifle vs full automatic wasn’t different enough.

Even the latest DBN cup in my opinion proves that Burst rifles are simply more valuable thanks to their superior damage. In the hands of the… what I guess we could call pros, there isn’t too much of a difference learning a gun as long as it’s more powerful. Sure, some still valued the easy to use M4, while nearly most of the players didn’t mind switching over to burst rifles as they are simply more effective when utilized correctly.
We even saw Grandeur there after the recent nerf. I consider that “nerf” actually be a much needed quality of life change for the Grandeur, as you couldn’t really spamfire with much consistency, so the slightly lower max rate of fire should actually lower the skill ceiling of the gun and make it more appealing to the majority, as it is still one of the hardest to use guns, I don’t mind the skill ceiling being toned down a little.

Just as the skill ceiling on Grandeur was reduced to make it easier to use, I’d like to think that instead messing with the damage and other values, SD will eventually consider to revert the burst rifle changes they did back then, because I mean, close range one triple burst to a head does 100+ damage. One shotting a merc with a burst rifle, that’s just as good as a shotgun for crying out loud, except burst rifles can perform well at any range.

[WaffleMonster]

[quote=“Dracorion;168204”]Timik is bad? Dreiss is bad?
Boy I must be horrible then to use THOSE weapons and hope for success…

I mean, I get it, stats here and there, but you know, they’re just different.
A player that can use Dreiss to a level of M4 can do just as good with the M4 as the other player, while the player who can use M4 at the level of the Dreiss user will not use Dreiss as well as the other player.
With Timik and M4 I can’t tell too much of a difference anymore as I’ve practiced them a lot recently, only those really long range shots with Timik are a little questionable to me. But Dreiss? I’d take Dreiss any day over either of the burst rifles, as I just feel much more comfortable with it. I do agree it is a tiny bit below burst rifles, but I can hardly tell the difference(it might also be my fault for running around with a 90hp merc and expect a decent burst shot not to kill me).

Timik I find is in a decent place, but Dreiss, Grandeur and the burstfires should definitely not be buffed by numbers at least. In the right hands all of those guns can outpower an automatic as the skilled player will be able to bring out the higher dps that those guns have.

In my opinion what’s wrong with the guns is that a little before the CW event I believe, SD decided to change burst rifles. I believe they made the bursts stronger, but also increased the delay between bursts to compensate. That change lowered the time to kill needed for those guns which I think is wrong.
Why? Because they gave the gun a new skill ceiling, the guns became harder to use, or rather to get used to, but in the end the guns now had more damage, meaning those more skilled with those specific guns could now outpower the rest while the beginners were just as bad as before, or probably even worse. I didn’t remember anyone mind or complain how the burst rifles were before the change, but somehow SD decided it was for the greater good to differentiate the guns from another. As if being a burst rifle vs full automatic wasn’t different enough.

Even the latest DBN cup in my opinion proves that Burst rifles are simply more valuable thanks to their superior damage. In the hands of the… what I guess we could call pros, there isn’t too much of a difference learning a gun as long as it’s more powerful. Sure, some still valued the easy to use M4, while nearly most of the players didn’t mind switching over to burst rifles as they are simply more effective when utilized correctly.
We even saw Grandeur there after the recent nerf. I consider that “nerf” actually be a much needed quality of life change for the Grandeur, as you couldn’t really spamfire with much consistency, so the slightly lower max rate of fire should actually lower the skill ceiling of the gun and make it more appealing to the majority, as it is still one of the hardest to use guns, I don’t mind the skill ceiling being toned down a little.

Just as the skill ceiling on Grandeur was reduced to make it easier to use, I’d like to think that instead messing with the damage and other values, SD will eventually consider to revert the burst rifle changes they did back then, because I mean, close range one triple burst to a head does 100+ damage. One shotting a merc with a burst rifle, that’s just as good as a shotgun for crying out loud, except burst rifles can perform well at any range.[/quote]

Timik and dreiss aren’t bad weapons anymore after constant buffing across a number of patches, the issue is their inferiority to the m4 and burst rifles.

Reverting the change made to burst rifles back to pre CW would be crazy. They used to have far higher dps than they do now and were incredibly spamy (hence why they were changed). SD just need to nerf the damage per burst.

[god11]

What? Burst rifles used to be the highest DPS guns by a pretty wide margin before, you could say they’ve been nerfed to the ground if you look at where they were a year ago.
Timik and Dreiss both have their places. I’d actually say Timik is the best automatic right after the K-121 due to it having a significant range advantage over the M4. As for the Dreiss, it has the longest effective range out of everything apart from sniper rifles and if you play to its strengths you can dominate anyone but PDP users with it.

[JJMAJR]

I thought burst rifles had lower DPS in closed beta, and the Timik having higher DPS there as well. This coming from the fact that some are saying that burst rifles used to be crap.

[KattiValk]

Burst rifles used to have even higher DPS than they do now but chewed through their magazines really quickly (which is unrealistic) and had some pretty bad bloom when fired at max speed. Still, a lot of people couldn’t even get the max ROF because clicking at the wrong speed resulted in lower overall ROF so the BRs were indirectly made more usable with the damage model changes.

[god11]

I thought burst rifles had lower DPS in closed beta, and the Timik having higher DPS there as well. This coming from the fact that some are saying that burst rifles used to be crap.

Timik has always been practically the same as the M4 DPS-wise which is at the lower end of all the primary guns. And the people who say closed beta burst rifles were bad just means they didn’t know how to use them.

[JJMAJR]

Well thanks for letting me know.

But honestly, the Timik and the Dreiss have loadouts that smelled of “bursts used to be worse than high recoil guns”.