Bunny Hopping PLS NERF

(ThiagoJaqueta) #1

Sorry for the click bait title, anyway…

Yesterday on LCTR Stream we were discussing in chat how ridiculous bunny hopping is during combat, and how it should be nerfed.
Now, I don’t want to KILL the jump button, Long Jumps, Wall jumps, trickjumps. but here’s MY idea:

When you spam your jump button, you start to get a Movement speed penalty, cool. But this DOES NOT apply to your jump height.

Facts:

  • Jumping does not reduce your accuracy with most of the weapons (Specially the ones where the problem is bigger, like shotguns, stickies), and the ones that reduces, it’s not much, so it’s still reliable to spam-jump in CQB and still hit shots, and I don’t think it should reduce the accuracy, increase the spread is the worst way of balancing things, because it’s PURE RNG.
  • Jumping makes your head really difficult to hit, because your vertical movement is faster than strafing left and right.

So… How it would work?
Basically, if you start chaining jumps, your character would start to jump lower, and lower, till a point where he would have a hittable head without tracking up and down. However, without affecting WallJumps, and Long Jumps. So Trickjumps would still be a thing because that would only be applied to “first/land jumps”.

Here’s a terrible example (That I made in GM in 5 minutes because… reasons): GIFv

Anyway, what are do you guys think about Bunny Hopping in DB? It’s fine as it is? It needs tweaks? Do you think that this is a good idea? Let me know your thoughts below.

(SiegeFace) #2

I had this idea but never got round to posting it, plus make a gif of that video xD

(ThiagoJaqueta) #3

Done (sort of… it’s a gifv because I’m lazy :v)

(Dawnlazy) #4

[quote=“ThiagoJaqueta;22692”]

  • Jumping does not reduce your accuracy[/quote]

It does, by a lot actually. Unless they’re in your face you can’t reliably hit jumpshots unless you ADS.

(doxjq) #5

I think it’s fine the way it is. It actually gives some merit to the springy perk as well. Before the recent buff, springy was pretty useless. Wall jumping itself is quite a talent. It’s not hard to do but it’s pretty hard to do it really effectively, especially in combat.

When I run into someone who is jumping around like a bunny and I die to them my first reaction isn’t “this sucks, they need to nerf jumping” but more like “I really need to improve my movement and learn how to do this properly”

There has to be some skill factor involved. The game should be challenging.

(ThiagoJaqueta) #6

*reduce your accuracy at a point that you will hit the ceiling like an AWP on CS. xD
Gonna fix that. Also, the main problems with jumping are on weapons that are not affected by this, such as shotguns, sticky bombs, and most of people do this in CQB anyway, so it doesn’t make much of a difference.

Honestly, I don’t think that spam the spacebar while shooting can be considered skill. Also, there are other Dodging mechanics that works pretty well, and should be more used, like Strafing and Crouch.

Spam-Jump makes the combat so messy and not fluid at all, which is all Dirty Bomb is about, fluidness. Have you ever heard about Advanced Warfare and how Bunny hopping killed the game combat mechanics? I’m afraid that this is happening to Dirty Bomb, hopefully we are still in beta.

My opinion: Dirty Bomb is not meant to be played like this, so I think that it should punish players by doing so.

(Sterling) #7

Jumps are predictable. That’s why you don’t see many actual comp players using it all the time. You can guess where people are going to land, because they can’t simply alter their path mid-jump unless there is a wall nearby for a walljump.

When people jump twice, they lose momentum, making their movement when jumping a lot slower. With springy, this increases to 3 jumps. Try it out yourself, if you want.

And don’t try to punish players for beating you with a cheap tactic that has an easy counter.

(KorpKyuuSama) #8

I love bunny hoppers :smiley:

You just need to side step them and they will miss most of the shots, and if it’s close range you just burst them out.

Of course that when i’m playing Aura or Proxy i jump a lot. XD

(Ballto) #9

i love people who think crouching is a viable form of dodging. unless im at midrange i go center mass upper torso, crouching gives me free headshots

(ThiagoJaqueta) #10

Nope, I’m not beaten by bunny hoppers, it’s easy to kill them since they won’t hit you so much, but like I said before, this makes combat exaggerated longer than it should be, it breaks the game fluidness.

When I say that crouching is viable, I’m not saying that I crouch and stand still for the next 50 seconds.
Getting Headshoted, crouch and the enemy will shot above your head, when he reposition his aim, you get up and he’ll have to do again, plus, crouching increases accuracy, that was a very used tactic on Enemy Territory, and works pretty well in DB too.

(watsyurdeal) #11

Imo, it doesn’t reduce accuracy enough is the problem, jumping should cause your spread to expand to the maximum value for that weapon, then compress as you descend to the ground.

Even if people start aiming down sight while jumping there is still that delay to aim the sights.

(ThiagoJaqueta) #12

[quote=“Watsyurdeal;136996”]Imo, it doesn’t reduce accuracy enough is the problem, jumping should cause your spread to expand to the maximum value for that weapon, then compress as you descend to the ground.

Even if people start aiming down sight while jumping there is still that delay to aim the sights.[/quote]

The problem of reducing accuracy is RNG.
Sometimes he won’t hit you once, some other times he will hit you 10 times in a row.
A good example of inconsistency is Rhino’s Mini-gun at a certain distance.
However I wouldn’t mind if the view-kick while taking damage and shooting where bigger while jumping.

(doxjq) #13

[quote=“ThiagoJaqueta;136966”]
Honestly, I don’t think that spam the spacebar while shooting can be considered skill. Also, there are other Dodging mechanics that works pretty well, and should be more used, like Strafing and Crouch.[/quote]

It is a skill though. Knowing where and how to jump effectively, and even though you’re a harder target to hit, it also makes it harder for you to aim at the enemy too. It’s some what counter intuitive. Not to mention it’s also good for dodging and evading nades and things of that nature (particularly stokers molly). There’s more elements to the wall jumping than just combat. To be honest I almost never use wall jumps in battles. I’d say 99.5% of my bunny hopping / wall jumping is to evade nades and air strikes or simply just moving around narrow hallways or corners quicker.

I politely disagree to be honest. Every game mode is based based around a stationary or very slow moving objective, half the classes are very slow moving, and generally speaking most of the maps involve one team basically holding one particular area of map. Plus with the amount of fire support & grenades etc I find the motion is quite start/stop compared to many other games.

I dunno. The game does use the unreal tournament engine doesn’t it? As soon as I heard that before I even played Dirty Bomb, I expected reasonably fast game play with wall jumping.

(Amerika) #14

This game isn’t enemy territory. As much as I loved ET while I played it I don’t want DB to be ET. Jumping and shooting isn’t that viable outside of a couple of situations that make it viable. People who spam jump while shooting tend to be pretty easy to kill. The few people who can use it to their advantage in a fight or use it for surprise makes it part of the skill ceiling that separates the good from the great. Nerfing the jumping mechanics as you suggest nerfs a playstyle which simply isn’t around anymore. This game not only gives you great shooting mechanics but a rather deep movement and trick jumping system while not quite moving into the arena shooter category. That’s a hell of a combination and I personally wouldn’t want to see it changed to be more like ET or any slower game.

I don’t want to see this game grounded at all. So many games punish people for using movement and it’s a breath of fresh air when a game finally has a movement system that can’t be completely abused, can punish a bad player but can also reward a good player. As riling as it can be to fight Proxy’s who can’t fire their shotgun without hitting jump it’s usually a non-issue. It’s like getting pissed off at players who dragon punch in street fighter non-stop when you can simply use their bad play against them.

And since we are on the subject, one habit I quickly gave up, and so have others, is crouching in a firefight. Or doing it often. It’s so predictable with some players and DB allows you to easily punish people who use it. I tend to fire at the shoulders and then move up accordingly if they aren’t going to duck. If I see them ducking in fights I just stay center mass and watch them kill themselves. It’s rather hilarious watching people kill themselves in this game.

(doxjq) #15

[quote=“Amerika;137011”]This game isn’t enemy territory. As much as I loved ET while I played it I don’t want DB to be ET. Jumping and shooting isn’t that viable outside of a couple of situations that make it viable. People who spam jump while shooting tend to be pretty easy to kill. The few people who can use it to their advantage in a fight or use it for surprise makes it part of the skill ceiling that separates the good from the great. Nerfing the jumping mechanics as you suggest nerfs a playstyle which simply isn’t around anymore. This game not only gives you great shooting mechanics but a rather deep movement and trick jumping system while not quite moving into the arena shooter category. That’s a hell of a combination and I personally wouldn’t want to see it changed to be more like ET or any slower game.

I don’t want to see this game grounded at all. So many games punish people for using movement and it’s a breath of fresh air when a game finally has a movement system that can’t be completely abused, can punish a bad player but can also reward a good player. As riling as it can be to fight Proxy’s who can’t fire their shotgun without hitting jump it’s usually a non-issue. It’s like getting pissed off at players who dragon punch in street fighter non-stop when you can simply use their bad play against them.

And since we are on the subject, one habit I quickly gave up, and so have others, is crouching in a firefight. Or doing it often. It’s so predictable with some players and DB allows you to easily punish people who use it. I tend to fire at the shoulders and then move up accordingly if they aren’t going to duck. If I see them ducking in fights I just stay center mass and watch them kill themselves. It’s rather hilarious watching people kill themselves in this game.[/quote]

This, this and this. Also this. Maybe this too.

(Jostabeere) #16

[quote=“Dawnrazor;136954”][quote=“ThiagoJaqueta;22692”]

  • Jumping does not reduce your accuracy[/quote]

It does, by a lot actually. Unless they’re in your face you can’t reliably hit jumpshots unless you ADS.[/quote]

With full-auto guns maybe.
Doesn’t help against shotgun monkeys at all.

(ThiagoJaqueta) #17

When I say fluidness, I mean COMBAT-wise, not OBJECTIVE-wise.

As I said before, JUMPING ON THE GROUND CONSECUTIVELY is a problem, not wall jump, not longjump, not both, Bunny Hopping.

Insurgency uses the same engine as Half-Life 2, and you don’t see people bunny-hopping and surfing there.

Yea, ofc DB is not ET. And Limiting the movement might be a little bit Overkill (COUGH COUGH MELEE COUGH…), however I still think that some changes must be made, I don’t think that is overpowered, (btw the title was a joke in case you guys didn’t noticed) but it’s annoying, and people who spam-jump are not punished enough, one good alternative was mentioned a few posts above, where you could get more view kick and visual recoil when jumping.

Also like I said before, Crouching is effective if you know how to use it, when to use it, which enemy you’re fighting, from where you are shooting, the distance between you and your target, it’s very situational, but when used in the right time, can be very rewarding.

(doxjq) #18

My apologies. I did misread that one.

(Amerika) #19

I just don’t agree for the reasons I cited. This game doesn’t need to be a “me too” that copies other games. It already has it’s own unique take on gameplay and movement that truly is unique to Dirty Bomb (to my knowledge). Changing it to work more like other games and removing some of the skill ceiling just doesn’t work for me personally. Especially when there is fairly easy counters in place already. And using jumping to stay alive or confuse a player is one of the more interesting mechanics in the game and is on par with other dodging mechanics in regards to skill required to do it right.

(ThiagoJaqueta) #20

Yea, like a said before, limit the player movement might be a little bit overkill.
But people that Jump DURING combat (not running away or something like that) are not punished enough imo.