BUFF PHANTOM

(ZeusGod) #1

Phantom has been nerfed too hard and needs a buff fast in order to be usable.

So to the people who think phantom should be buffed sign this petiton

Youtuber rekts before nerf: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0do4F-Mr8c

(gg2ez) #2

I’m actually amused someone made a petition to buff Phantom :lol:

(wolvie) #3

…I tired of all the people thinking Phantom sucks. He’s finely balanced when played correctly.

(watsyurdeal) #4

Eh…not quite, walking visibility could be a lot lower. Sprinting however should be fairly revealing.

(Ballto) #5

the only change needed is that he doesnt show up on redeyes thermals anymore when cloaked

other than that hes fine, stop using your knife all the time

(SonataDusk) #6

He needs a major buff. Nader keeps getting improvements because apparently her stats are not up to par with Fragger, but Neither are Phantom’s and they both fill the same role. It’s impossible to justify not making him a better killer.

(Ballto) #7

hes fine at killing if you use your gun, run behind people like an agressive prox, and remember you can use it as a free health bar to gtfo

i use the cloak reactive more than proactive, unless im sneaking for a sword kill or need to pass enemies

if you expect to cloak and run into a group of guys and chop them down, you wont

if you expect to sneak at a distance to a behind position with cover and an escape route, you will

many an unstoppable



teams were balanced on both

also remember, excellent operative is the best card because
-kek 10
-katana
-chop
-undercover
-cool

now the cool perk is secretly OP

turrets are your friends, you can sneak behind people (especially chapel defence) and gun down many people and cloak out at range

remember you can be cloaked on the turret if you cloak before mounting

(SonataDusk) #8

These are two games, out of how many you’ve played with him I don’t know.
I’ve played phantom for over 100 hours, 12k+ kills, 8k+ of which were Katana kills. I do well with him, doing everything you say above. Figuring those tactics out isn’t rocket surgery. After some number crunching I average about a 2.6 KD with him. For a dedicated slayer merc, not bad.
The problem is that doing so is so exceedingly frustrating. In order to really rack up kills in the same way you can with Fragger or Nader, the enemy team has to not know phantom’s counters, and not know how to detect him. when he is detected, all they have to do is backpedal and shoot. You can try to long jump at them, but the Katana’s attacks are so finicky now it’s an extreme risk tactic, and doesn’t work if more than one enemy is present. You can shoot them, but then we run into the same problem. They can detect you, and moe likely than not their gun kills faster than your SMG, assuming they’re aim is just as good as yours. In addition to this, you’ll be no where near an ammo source, so assuming you survive beyond two or three gun kills you will be out of bullets to kill with, and you need the Katana, which puts us back to the first scenario.
The only way phantom is effective or game changing to the same degree as other slayers is if his melee is effective. As it stands now, melee is clunky and awkward, making Phantom as a whole clunky and awkward.

(GottaBeGreg) #9

Hey Im sorry but thats wrong. His best card is almost definitely the Sneaky Enigma Double Time. Kek. Yeh thats been buffed so its strong as hell.

(GottaBeGreg) #10

Sneaky mitigates his armours sound, Enigma mitigates his spotting weakness and double time is double time. The katana isnt even that good current state and he gets a deagle instead of a Smithun. Bada bing that makes for a strong as hell class.
Yeh sure his other card is strong, but it doesnt even have the strongest melee, which goes to Redeye, who gets better perks, an arguably better gun and Smoke w/ spotting. So if you really want to get good melee kills, go Redeye. Currently his counters are few and far between. Only a Rhino can take two in the head from him and thats saying something for an all range merc. Drawing back to relevance to Original post, I wouldnt be against an audio cue on a charge attack that one shots on Phantom. Or perhaps even a heavy from behind doubling damage. That would make his melee the best in the game and also remain balanced. That or complete invis and no sound when not moving and crouched. All of these things would still be balanced in my books.

(thoroughPistachio) #11

Spotted a Phantom from 20 character lengths that was crouch walking stealthed. Way too easy to see, esp. once you’ve seen it once or twice. My subconscious picks it out for me now.

(ZeusGod) #12

This is the steam discussion its got a lot of people rattled up

http://steamcommunity.com/app/333930/discussions/0/458604254415942224/?tscn=1450825165#p1

(Jesus) #13

he can be quite good but there is still two things bugging me the visibility and the speed, I’d like him to go a little faster. for the visibility for people not to see me i have to crounch and walk or the ability isnt very long so… they just need to fix that

EDIT: and the armor sound this shouldnt be a thing i can be sneakier with a proxy come in your back and shotgun your ass which isnt normal

(nimbleIsland) #14

When something is worse than everything else in the game when played correctly, it’s not finely balanced.

(p4v) #15

He is not supposed to be an assault merc. His killing potential is good for a recon but he fails to deliver because his potential is impaired. I would buff his speed back +10 (they nerfed that along with his katana and cloak) and fix melee attacks. The heavy attack is awful on every melee weapon. SD should finally make a proper fix that will make those attacks less clunky.

He always needed additional speed and now with the buff to RedEye’s and Vassili’s detection devices, he needs it even more.

What he also needs is the 2nd ability that would be team-oriented since he is a recon. SD is aware of that. They want to make his more of a teamplayer. The problem is that they are busy with finishing up Aimee and Javelin (Turtle is probably already ready for release). We won’t see a new ability for Phantom for a while :confused:

That is why he needs buffs to his current attributes.

  1. +10 speed
  2. Being completely invisible while WALKING
  3. Fix heavy attacks or buff his katana damage so he can take out more mercs with clunky heavy attack
(nimbleIsland) #16

I think the sound he makes when invisable ruins the point of it, especially in competitive.

(Naonna) #17

‘better at killing than other recons’ … snipers 1shot and gib in comp. - phantom tries to be a lightly-armored (until the first shot, which doesn’t help against groups of 2 or more) bushwacker knockoff with a loud downside to a mild upside to his ability. He’s only truly close to invis when standing still, and the noise is a tip-off. Either make him quieter or more invisible when walking.

(Amerika) #18

[quote=“SonataDusk;127706”]These are two games, out of how many you’ve played with him I don’t know.
I’ve played phantom for over 100 hours, 12k+ kills, 8k+ of which were Katana kills. I do well with him, doing everything you say above. Figuring those tactics out isn’t rocket surgery. After some number crunching I average about a 2.6 KD with him. For a dedicated slayer merc, not bad.
The problem is that doing so is so exceedingly frustrating. In order to really rack up kills in the same way you can with Fragger or Nader, the enemy team has to not know phantom’s counters, and not know how to detect him. when he is detected, all they have to do is backpedal and shoot. You can try to long jump at them, but the Katana’s attacks are so finicky now it’s an extreme risk tactic, and doesn’t work if more than one enemy is present. You can shoot them, but then we run into the same problem. They can detect you, and moe likely than not their gun kills faster than your SMG, assuming they’re aim is just as good as yours. In addition to this, you’ll be no where near an ammo source, so assuming you survive beyond two or three gun kills you will be out of bullets to kill with, and you need the Katana, which puts us back to the first scenario.
The only way phantom is effective or game changing to the same degree as other slayers is if his melee is effective. As it stands now, melee is clunky and awkward, making Phantom as a whole clunky and awkward.[/quote]

You are treating Phantom as assault. He’s not assault, he’s recon. He just doesn’t have a spotter ability but is instead supposed to be a loaner with his cloak.

My stats are much better than yours and I rarely use the Katana. The reason why my stats are better than yours? I don’t try to play a gun class character as a melee only character. And your argument that a Kek10 or a Crotzni can’t compete with pretty much any gun in the game at ranges where you’d engage with Phantom discredits your opinion rather significantly.

He has a Katana instead of a cricket bat. It barely functions differently. It’s not his special ability. If you used his strengths properly and intelligently he’s quite good in pub situations. We’ve all discussed his weaknesses in legit competitive play. Smaller 5v5 servers with less chaos + people who know how to react to a Phantom without panic or being engaged by a ton of other people makes him weak for the team. That’s why many agree that he also needs a secondary ability and a few other minor tweaks up to possibly removing his ability to attack immediately out of stealth so he can be given better stealth. Hopefully SD does that.

SD doesn’t want a melee stealth merc. Why? Because it feels cheap both as the player of Phantom and the person on the receiving end. This is a common sentiment in almost every single game that has a stealth 1-shot style “rogue” class. It’s extremely divisive and even harder to balance. That’s why there have been quite a few changes to decrease the amount of success a Phantom player can have at melee but most of which has not hurt his gunplay too much. Stop trying to fit a square peg into a round hole and you’ll find him to be way less frustrating and even fun.

And before you question me too much, all of my stats are publicly viewable and have been posted on this forum along with a ton of Phantom videos (including many on min10 servers). Some people think I hate Phantom since I tend to post negative opinions about “melee only” play styles. That couldn’t be further from the truth. I love playing him and his style and I don’t want him further dumbed down so a bad player can feel powerful by walking up to anybody they want and instantly killing them with a right click as if it’s a hard thing to do.

(SonataDusk) #19

Firstly, the “Recon” class is a myth. The idea that there is a class that only finds targets for other people to kill is superfluous and over complicating the class dynamic in this game. All of the classes cited as being recon (Redeye, Vassili, and Phantom) do one thing and one thing only: they kill people. In this respect, they are no different from Nader, Fragger, or any other Slayer mercs. Spotting and cloak help them do that job, but spotting is a means to an end, much like a made or a minigun. I don’t care how many people point to a wiki or some other source saying its a thing. In practice, recons are just slayers.
Melee classes are far from impossible to balance. Yes, it can feel like BS getting instakilled by someone you didn’t see coming, but frankly, with all the penalties that come with moving while cloaked, it’s your own fault for letting a phantom get that close. If it does happen, you deserve to die.
Phantom is, and always has been melee focused, it’s why he has the katana, and augments that cater to melee play. Splash damage wouldn’t have included those cards if it wasn’t what he was designed to do. All of the katana cards have undercover, so they can cloak and sneak close longer, and they all have perks that either allow them to bypass defenses to get into range or just make them outright better at melee. Saying the devs never intended him to be melee focused ignores the fact that they created these loadouts for him.
You also overlook one fact, one that is very important. Playing a gun only phantom when the katana exists is very, very boring. Every other merc has guns, so why not use one of them? What makes Phantom special with a gun? An invisibility that isn’t even invisible? There is very little that exhilarates in a fight more than over coming odds, and bringing a knife to a gunfight is the epitome of this feeling. Remember, this is a video game, emphasis on game. All of the mercs, in order to justify their existence, need to be unique, effective, and above all fun. Playing as phantom the way you would play any other merc makes no sense, especially since every other merc has abilities that at the moment have far more utility in a gunfight. Stabbing someone because you snuck behind them, and then running off before their teammates can react is fun.
As I mentioned before with the design of the cards, SD obviously intended for people to use the Katana as a weapon, not a toy. At the moment, using the Katana the way they intended is more often than not detrimental, and as such needs to be corrected.

(triteCherry) #20

[quote=“SonataDusk;131476”]
Phantom is, and always has been melee focused, it’s why he has the katana, and augments that cater to melee play. Splash damage wouldn’t have included those cards if it wasn’t what he was designed to do. All of the katana cards have undercover, so they can cloak and sneak close longer, and they all have perks that either allow them to bypass defenses to get into range or just make them outright better at melee. Saying the devs never intended him to be melee focused ignores the fact that they created these loadouts for him.[/quote]

Devs are giving the Katana to other mercs in the future. Also Red Eye has a melee focused card, a way to hide himself and spot enemies.

Redeye = Melee character.