Broken AC Banning System?

(Faraleth) #21

At the end of the day, regardless of it being sold with peripherals or not, macros are NOT allowed - that is the bottom line, I am afraid.

(FireWorks) #22

Macro and scripts cannot do more than a skilled player can do. Thats why SD has allowed them since I play their games for over a decade now.
If there is something like a working recoilscript, its up to the dev to disturb it with random spread. These kind things can only work if the devs dont do their homework. See BR14 currently, which actually does not need a macro, its a simple mousewheel thing open for everyone.

Macros and scripts tend to be overestimated by a wide margin from players. Along with custom crosshairs. Brush up your own skill and you dont have to fear any macro player out there.

(K1X455) #23

I guess it’s self conflicted then.

(FireWorks) #24

Aren’t such mice and keyboards designed to give an advantage over non-leet-hardware-users in the first line?[/quote]

They are designed to get money from people that are willing to buy hardware labelled for “gamers” with the x-fold of its pricetag. Anyone else can simply use AHK, which often even works better.

(B_Montiel) #25

The biggest problem is that theoretically pretty much any mouse/keyboard drivers/softwares will allow you to bind macros and possible auto-clickers. So we should be all banned from DB already.

Yes, that’s easier to detect a software than detect a faulty usage of it. But that’s limiting a full bunch of playing in what are comfortable conditions for them. I don’t think setting a macro for quick V43 is something that is a direct advantage overall. That’s just lazy macro for lazy players. They don’t deserve a ban for that. AC should detect patterned behaviors in the aiming and shooting. They have all the data required to build something correct.

(Ardez1) #26

[quote=“B. Montiel;85866”]The biggest problem is that theoretically pretty much any mouse/keyboard drivers/softwares will allow you to bind macros and possible auto-clickers. So we should be all banned from DB already.

Yes, that’s easier to detect a software than detect a faulty usage of it. But that’s limiting a full bunch of playing in what are comfortable conditions for them. I don’t think setting a macro for quick V43 is something that is a direct advantage overall. That’s just lazy macro for lazy players. They don’t deserve a ban for that. AC should detect patterned behaviors in the aiming and shooting. They have all the data required to build something correct.

[/quote]

Which is why keybinds built into games were/are a common practice. Change binds is different from macros in that the binds are build into the game and the macros are input going into the game from a third party program.

(Amerika) #27

Was the ban recent? Last I knew NGS wasn’t nearly as particular about macro software compared to XIGNcode3. I was under the impression that NGS didn’t care about most macro software at all that was in common use as tons of mice and keyboards allow macros to be made without any software.

(B_Montiel) #28

Are kick/bans applied only when there’s detection of a macro interfering with the game or simply on software detection ? If it’s the second it’s totally not working then…

(Amerika) #29

The latter.

(Mondler) #30

well i have the razer bf4 bundle mouse and keyboard along with razer synapse running for more than 2 years now and 300ish hours in DB…2-3 i got the security message but i know it is bugged (i saw it happen on a Dev stream)…i dont have any macros to any key and hopefully i will not get banned for owning some hardware that comes with a software important (changing DPI of the mouse on the fly)

(Faraleth) #31

@Mondler Fear not, those kind of functions are perfectly fine! The kind of things we are talking about are peripherals with built in “auto clicker” macros, or basically any piece of software that will perform a function for you. :slight_smile:

(Glowpowner) #32

@Faraleth so if i have a macro on my logitech g19s with only text will that get me banned as well ?

and why is nexon bannen players for a hotkey/macro program

example like i will get banned if i bind the keys 1 and 2 to switch weapons one q and e

(Ardez1) #33

[quote=“Glowpowner;85985”]@Faraleth so if i have a macro on my logitech g19s with only text will that get me banned as well ?

and why is nexon bannen players for a hotkey/macro program

example like i will get banned if i bind the keys 1 and 2 to switch weapons one q and e[/quote]

On your first line, if it is detected or your are reported for it, probably.

second line, because they can be used to exploit the game and get an unfair advantage. Akin to cheating.

third line, why would you remap your keyboard when you can change your keybinds within the game? Unless it is doing something not supported by the game you should be able to rebind within the settings.

(Glowpowner) #34

[quote=“Ardez;85996”][quote=“Glowpowner;85985”]@Faraleth so if i have a macro on my logitech g19s with only text will that get me banned as well ?

and why is nexon bannen players for a hotkey/macro program

example like i will get banned if i bind the keys 1 and 2 to switch weapons one q and e[/quote]

On your first line, if it is detected or your are reported for it, probably.

second line, because they can be used to exploit the game and get an unfair advantage. Akin to cheating.

third line, why would you remap your keyboard when you can change your keybinds within the game? Unless it is doing something not supported by the game you should be able to rebind within the settings.[/quote]

was just a example but i know you can change that in the ingame settings but still

also with the text bind i try to invite players if there looking for a EU clan
its for the chat box

(Ardez1) #35

[quote=“Glowpowner;85997”][quote=“Ardez;85996”][quote=“Glowpowner;85985”]@Faraleth so if i have a macro on my logitech g19s with only text will that get me banned as well ?

and why is nexon bannen players for a hotkey/macro program

example like i will get banned if i bind the keys 1 and 2 to switch weapons one q and e[/quote]

On your first line, if it is detected or your are reported for it, probably.

second line, because they can be used to exploit the game and get an unfair advantage. Akin to cheating.

third line, why would you remap your keyboard when you can change your keybinds within the game? Unless it is doing something not supported by the game you should be able to rebind within the settings.[/quote][/quote]

Well think about this as well. Players like their privacy. There are laws that exist to protect the privacy of people. The Anti-Cheat can only be so thorough in checking for programs that break the terms of use before it gets to the point of privacy invasions.

The Anti-Cheat knows what programs you are running. It does NOT know what those programs are actually doing or what data they receive or send to other programs. The only way to effectively prevent many programs without invading the privacy of millions of users is to be more black and white with what it blocks. It can detect a macro program. No, it can’t tell you are being harmless with it’s use. Text or an anti-recoil macro, it can’t tell. What it can do is block users that are running programs known to be used in exploits and cheats.

This is extremely hard to do with macro programs being built into mice and keyboards.

HOWEVER, if it is detected by the anti-cheat as a blacklisted or suspicious program it is likely that you would not be unbanned. This is purely because there is no proof either way that you were using it harmlessly or with a malicious intent. And even if you were using it harmlessly and had proof, it would be time consuming and costly to investigate every single report.

So in the end there is a blanket Do Not Use on any macro programs to try and provide a ban free experience for the players.

(Omega_K2) #36

Using teamspeak, raidcall, skype, mumble or other voice software to communicate with your team/friends gives you a huge advantage too. I figure they should start banning people using those as well. After all, knowing where your enemy is because someone told you so over voice is pretty much like using a wallhack.

Oh, let’s not forget people on better computers or more suitable hardware . With higher fps and better screens/mice/keyboards/etc they probably have a smoother game experience and a much easier time aiming and such. Should be banned too.

And while we are at it, people with higher/lower latencies should not be in the same game either. After all that unfairly affects their performance too.

Actually, just ban everyone because… you know, computers are programmable and can be used to exploit the game and get an unfair advantage.

If you didn’t catch it, the bottom line is it’s a ridiculous. If they are worried about people using specific macros like recoil controlling ones they should take specific counter measures if they really feel if it’s needed. Fairness can not be guaranteed unless the environment is completely controlled, which isn’t happening outside of tournaments (and even there, people have manged to snuck in cheats.) Or at the very least if they keep this policy up, only block people for those lesser issues as long they’re running the program, not permanently.

Removing people from the game that just use software or hardware that can run and store macros is stupid, and it’s the best way to discourage people from playing this game. Or worse yet, if you’re already getting banned for “cheating”, why not pick up an actual cheat and start playing with it? Chances are you’re even better off because real cheats actually make an effort to stay undetected/hidden, versus legitimate programs don’t.

(Jostabeere) #37

[#OMEGA] - K2;86035"]

Using teamspeak, raidcall, skype, mumble or other voice software to communicate with your team/friends gives you a huge advantage too. I figure they should start banning people using those as well. After all, knowing where your enemy is because someone told you so over voice is pretty much like using a wallhack.
[/quote]

What is in-game VOIP?
Also you really comparing a feature to describe someone position by a teammate while the enemy still can move away and change direction with a program that exactly shows all enemies behind every wall?

(K1X455) #38

[quote=“Ardez;85996”][quote=“Glowpowner;85985”]@Faraleth so if i have a macro on my logitech g19s with only text will that get me banned as well ?

and why is nexon bannen players for a hotkey/macro program

example like i will get banned if i bind the keys 1 and 2 to switch weapons one q and e[/quote]

On your first line, if it is detected or your are reported for it, probably.
[/quote]

So you’re just speculating on the anti-cheat mechanics. It’s fine. I get it. But

[quote=“Ardez;85996”]second line, because they can be used to exploit the game and get an unfair advantage. Akin to cheating.

third line, why would you remap your keyboard when you can change your keybinds within the game? Unless it is doing something not supported by the game you should be able to rebind within the settings.[/quote]

here’s an example:

setbind LeftAlt "Duck | Jump" 1

You can do other stuff with Mouse1, Mouse2, GameKey1, GameKey2, etc, and string other fancy things. Why? Because a single keystroke action is better than a three keystroke action to invoke quick chat asking for Medic or Ammo. Plus, the fancy text message you can put in, like “Get ready to go on my airstrike” or “Wait for others to respawn”. Do you honestly think that information gives you an unfair advantage? I don’t use the macro I showed because I already got the dexterity to do it consistently, but the idea that I can get banned for such binds is ridiculous. It is absolutely wrong to say that all macros in the game are bannable and in conflict with ToS of Nexon.

Just as [#OMEGA] - K2 was saying that the logic behind banning players that have legitimate resources applications/hardware is absolutely wrong. Players who don’t have sufficient hardware to give them a consistent 30 frames per second have a self imposed handicap. It doesn’t mean that other players who have better resources in terms of hardware/OeM deprive them of a fair game.

At the end of the day, the more sensible action is that there are applications that NGS should not black list these things as a hack; instead, it should learn to white list these legitimate applications. What it can’t do to scan the application’s actions because it is technically difficult to do so because the OS won’t allow it for security reasons, it should be clever enough to make exclusions.

[quote=“laudatoryLunch;86227”]
What is in-game VOIP?
Also you really comparing a feature to describe someone position by a teammate while the enemy still can move away and change direction with a program that exactly shows all enemies behind every wall?[/quote]

RaidCall, Mumble, Skype and TeamSpeak3 has voice activated feature that the game doesn’t have. It only has a push-to-talk that you can bind to a key or mouse button. If you’re ambitious enough to use an Unreal Engine macro for this, you can get banned.

(Omega_K2) #39

[quote=“laudatoryLunch;86227”]
What is in-game VOIP?
Also you really comparing a feature to describe someone position by a teammate while the enemy still can move away and change direction with a program that exactly shows all enemies behind every wall?[/quote]

Ingame VOIP won’t ever compare to using a 3rd party application. Teamspeak3 for example has numerous things that ingame voice doesn’t, such as the ability to continue talking as the game crashes (or you disconnect/security violation/game freezes) which happens every few rounds as well as when you can’t usually talk (ex. loading screens). Also if you’re not on the same team. You can also adjust volume for each of your friends accordingly and for the application, so you can fine-tune how loud everyone is in regards to the game. Oh, and select codecs to adjust the quality and/or bandwith. Voice activation versus push-to-talk is another big thing.
(And that’s just a few features, voice applications tend to have more).

Of course it’s not the exactly the same as ESP/Wallhack, since you don’t have the exact knowledge of the player position at all times, but actually it’s fairly similar. Similar enough to people think you’re actually cheating, so there’s that. You know why? Being able to throw a grenade (/sticky) around a corner before even SEEING an enemy is there is something that a cheater would do. But people on your team can tell you there’s some guy camping around that corner, and without personally knowing you can blast them up and appear to be “cheating”. If not for the grenades, simply knowing where to shoot / pre aim will help a lot (going around a corner and knowing there is or isn’t someone will save you a short amount of time not spent looking into corners for enemies and get right to shooting (or simply rushing on in case of clear space)). Or even the general awareness, if your friend saw 5 enemies going up on the other side on the map and called for help, and setting up support there (e.x. healing turret, mines, getting in position for shooting, etc).

I figure knowing that teamwork is a MASSIVE advantage in a TEAM game is a no-brainer. It’s something that can easily elevate you to “cheating”-like levels of awareness if you communicate well, and it’s exactly how it does appear to other players if they’re not aware you’re communicating.

(TheDoctorHax) #40

Was the ban recent? Last I knew NGS wasn’t nearly as particular about macro software compared to XIGNcode3. I was under the impression that NGS didn’t care about most macro software at all that was in common use as tons of mice and keyboards allow macros to be made without any software.[/quote]

Apparently it was recently, as in NGS was a thing. Like I said it hasn’t banned me for AHK yet and now I have been playing for well over double the original amount given in the post. I think it is because it can see that my macro is harmless to the game (like I said in the original post, it just moves windows). I also run the Logitech Gaming Software for my G502 and the K95 keyboard software. I will admit that I did once set up a macro on my mouse to fire the br16 as fast as possible but it wasn’t any faster than I was shooting already and was boring to use and was bound to a side button which was awkward… So that one got deleted after a single game.