BRINK /facepalm


(dutch) #1

Ok… this is getting to me now. I love BRINK. I’ve played it heaps since it came out, and I am trying to get my friends into it. But the dev’s really need to get a move on.

It’s like this:

Splash Damage: “LOOK LOOK new DLC coming, here are ALL teh details… will come out… some time… in… june… (maybe)”

Community: “It is now june… today? how about today? now? please!? I’m bored…”

Where as valve:

Valve: silence… then suddenly… “WHOA LOADS OF TF2 UPDATES HERE ARE A FEW DETAILS YOU’LL HAVE IT ON THURSDAY WHICH IS REALLY SOON”

Community: :eek: stunned silence then cheering

This may not have always been the case, but seriously. I know… disappointing launce for BRINK might mean they are scrambling to catch up with the freebies they are offering… but I think they could have got it done a bit sooner! And the twitter responses are pathetic… at least give some kind of detail “We’re nearly there, just gotta finish making the animations on the bayonettes as sexy as possible” or “We’re just finishing some more frustrating cutscenes for the new maps”…

Lol.

And speaking of cutscenes… one last thing. SD PLEASE fix the explosion animation on the founders tower so it actually looks like damage has occurred! lol. Those flickering smoke plumes and stuff make me cringe every time!


(Zekariah) #2

We are probably not getting a progress update at this stage because its in Microsofts hands now.


(crazyfoolish) #3

Even if they confirmed this it would be nice.


(Smoochy) #4

the thing is they announced free DLC to calm the community. maybe they said it earlier than if brink had been a big success? there is still 1 week left in june and we all knew it wouldnt hit till ~30th June


(MF Maou) #5

[QUOTE=dutch;342945]Valve: silence… then suddenly… “WHOA LOADS OF TF2 UPDATES HERE ARE A FEW DETAILS YOU’LL HAVE IT ON THURSDAY WHICH IS REALLY SOON”

Community: :eek: stunned silence then cheering[/QUOTE]

While this wait is causing me to become bored with BRINK a little more each day, what you’re bringing up is an aberration.

http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time


(McAfee) #6

Are the Linux dedicated servers on Microsoft’s hands too?


(Smoochy) #7

nope, but devs are too scared to ‘favour’ one platform. same reason EA screws PS3 users as M$ limits patch sizes and amount of patches, yet sony dont. so they refuse to release future ps3 patches as they cant for xbox.

for me the xbox is massively holding gaming back with its patch policy and lack of HDDs on all machines.

out of curiosity what fps do you get with that CPU?


(McAfee) #8

I don’t consider having Linux servers favouring anything. It’s just the way it’s meant to be. IMHO “Windows” and “Dedicated” don’t belong in the same sentence. So we may currently have Windows Servers, but there is just too much crap running in the background on the “average” Windows machine. So they are hardly dedicated to the task.

I have vsync on, as there is no way to cap FPS otherwise, so I’m usually at 60 fps, but yeah sometimes I dip to 30. But I rather have a steady 60 that sometimes dip to 30, than: 200, 60, 150, 30, 45, 90, 125, etc.

Btw, the signature is reporting the clock speed when IDLE, the E8400 is a 3.0 GHz ( 9 x 333 MHz )


(Smoochy) #9

[QUOTE=McAfee;343042]I don’t consider having Linux servers favouring anything. It’s just the way it’s meant to be. IMHO “Windows” and “Dedicated” don’t belong in the same sentence. So we may currently have Windows Servers, but there is just too much crap running in the background on the “average” Windows machine. So they are hardly dedicated to the task.

I have vsync on, as there is no way to cap FPS otherwise, so I’m usually at 60 fps, but yeah sometimes I dip to 30. But I rather have a steady 60 that sometimes dip to 30, than: 200, 60, 150, 30, 45, 90, 125, etc.

Btw, the signature is reporting the clock speed when IDLE, the E8400 is a 3.0 GHz ( 9 x 333 MHz )[/QUOTE]

yeah, i know linux servers are better for most things. im a web developer by trade (even though i tend to use windows boxes as in-house web servers as they are easier for me to maintain due to never really learning linux. every time ive tried ubuntu etc ive had loads of issues. i would expect that dedicated game servers are optimised a lot though. its not like they have exchange running on them! :slight_smile:

what i was saying is that i bet all platforms (linux, windoze, ps3 and xcrap) will get the DLC/big patch together, else M$ will go and cry.

btw - i dip to the 20s too on my quad core extreme but that is an ATI issue. never went that low on my 8800gtx, and that is 5 years old!


(HomersGhost) #10

[QUOTE=Smoochy;343040]nope, but devs are too scared to ‘favour’ one platform. same reason EA screws PS3 users as M$ limits patch sizes and amount of patches, yet sony dont. so they refuse to release future ps3 patches as they cant for xbox.

for me the xbox is massively holding gaming back with its patch policy and lack of HDDs on all machines.

out of curiosity what fps do you get with that CPU?[/QUOTE]

All I got to say is thank god for the patch policy. Microsoft put it in place so developers would aim to release finished games instead of getting something out the door and fixing it in “post”. And even with that policy in place, companies like Bethesda still release broken products instead of taking the time to properly test them. Brink is a prime example of releasing at the bottom of the quality curve and gamers suffer the results.

As for the PS3, I’ve read horror stories of game updates taking upwards of thirty minutes. No thanks on that one.

Back in the NES days, when you released a game, it was done and there was nothing to be done about bugs or glitches outside of a recall. While developers have more tools now, they shouldn’t rely on them.

As for the lack of a default hard drive … yeah, ms screwed the pooch on that one.


(wolfnemesis75) #11

[QUOTE=HomersGhost;343084]All I got to say is thank god for the patch policy. Microsoft put it in place so developers would aim to release finished games instead of getting something out the door and fixing it in “post”. And even with that policy in place, companies like Bethesda still release broken products instead of taking the time to properly test them. Brink is a prime example of releasing at the bottom of the quality curve and gamers suffer the results.

As for the PS3, I’ve read horror stories of game updates taking upwards of thirty minutes. No thanks on that one.

Back in the NES days, when you released a game, it was done and there was nothing to be done about bugs or glitches outside of a recall. While developers have more tools now, they shouldn’t rely on them.

As for the lack of a default hard drive … yeah, ms screwed the pooch on that one.[/QUOTE]

Please list five games that have been released without bugs, glitches, and lag on Next-Gen Console in the last 5 years. NES is not apples to apples comparison since those games did have bugs, glitches, and problems, you just had to live with them as a player. And how would you know about problems other people had back in the good ole days?

I rest my case.


(tokamak) #12

This really doesn’t warrant a new thread.


(Overgear) #13

At least its A new thread. It’s nice to see something new once in a while but i do dislike

In may: It’s coming in june
Actual release: June 30th.


(HomersGhost) #14

[QUOTE=wolfnemesis75;343090]Please list five games that have been released without bugs, glitches, and lag on Next-Gen Console in the last 5 years. NES is not apples to apples comparison since those games did have bugs, glitches, and problems, you just had to live with them as a player. And how would you know about problems other people had back in the good ole days?

I rest my case.[/QUOTE]

I never wrote that games were released bug free. You wrote that. I sling code for a living and I’m more than well aware of the software complexity. hell, people are still patching Unix bugs that are over thirty years old.

My point with the NES is that developers lived by do-or-die releases which ups the stakes dramatically as opposed to the “fix it in post mentality” of current game developers. When you know you can’t update code once it’s been released, your going to approach the code differently than a developer who knows that he or she can patch later. That’s my point.

Granted, games today radically more complex, but showstopping bugs that would have postponed a launch ten years ago are now being released with the intention of fixing it in post. I mean, buy any game for the XBox at launch, fire it up for the first time, and a large majority of them will download a patch.

By stipulating that the network is not intended for major code rewrites as opposed to minor point releases, you are forcing developers to spend more time in QA (the first thing that’s get downsized in contemporary rushed schedules) since the developers can’t rewrite the damn game after it’s been released. The curve is obviously a shallow one (see Brink network code for the XBox or any Fallout DLC release), but at least there’s something, otherwise, some games would simply be unplayable at launch.

This is a good thing for gamers and a bad thing for the bean counters. I don’t know about you but I get pissed when I drop sixty dollars for a game to then have to sit on my hands for three weeks until the developer fixes what should have worked out of the box.


(Smoochy) #15

[QUOTE=HomersGhost;343084]All I got to say is thank god for the patch policy. Microsoft put it in place so developers would aim to release finished games instead of getting something out the door and fixing it in “post”. And even with that policy in place, companies like Bethesda still release broken products instead of taking the time to properly test them. Brink is a prime example of releasing at the bottom of the quality curve and gamers suffer the results.

As for the PS3, I’ve read horror stories of game updates taking upwards of thirty minutes. No thanks on that one.

Back in the NES days, when you released a game, it was done and there was nothing to be done about bugs or glitches outside of a recall. While developers have more tools now, they shouldn’t rely on them.

As for the lack of a default hard drive … yeah, ms screwed the pooch on that one.[/QUOTE]

the ps3 thing is different. yes, some games have massive updates. burnout paradise had 1.5Gb of patches, if you have a bad connection thats 30 mins. most patches are 20-30MB and take seconds. M$ has a patch limit size. i have a gaming pc and ps3 and im sick of how M$ is killing off console games and generally ruining gaming in general. and now people are making cross-platform games that dont 100% suit pc or console. bf3 is already being dumbed down for consoles but at least there will be 2 versions. 64 players for us PC people :slight_smile: lets just hope itys not BFBC3!

the thing with M$ is that they are stopping devs from actually fixing games.

@Back in the NES days, when you released a game, it was done and there was nothing to be done about bugs or glitches outside of a recall. While developers have more tools now, they shouldn’t rely on them.

  • yeah but games were 100x more simple back then. you could test much more in a 2d scroller than a massive 3d sandbox game like fallout3/gta. freedom in gaming comes with a price. also big corps like M$ buying up studios like bungee didnt help the industry (remember when halo was being first designed - a massively hyped PC game until M$ bought them). before that games were released when done. now publishers push stuff out early without full testing!

(Smoochy) #16

6 weeks of waiting for bloody ATI to get a decent driver is far worse IMO. i never found any of the other brink bugs really to be show stoppers. yes, the lack of audio on one map was annoying but just skip that map.


(wolfnemesis75) #17

[QUOTE=HomersGhost;343135]I never wrote that games were released bug free. You wrote that. I sling code for a living and I’m more than well aware of the software complexity. hell, people are still patching Unix bugs that are over thirty years old.

My point with the NES is that developers lived by do-or-die releases which ups the stakes dramatically as opposed to the “fix it in post mentality” of current game developers. When you know you can’t update code once it’s been released, your going to approach the code differently than a developer who knows that he or she can patch later. That’s my point.

Granted, games today radically more complex, but showstopping bugs that would have postponed a launch ten years ago are now being released with the intention of fixing it in post. I mean, buy any game for the XBox at launch, fire it up for the first time, and a large majority of them will download a patch.

By stipulating that the network is not intended for major code rewrites as opposed to minor point releases, you are forcing developers to spend more time in QA (the first thing that’s get downsized in contemporary rushed schedules) since the developers can’t rewrite the damn game after it’s been released. The curve is obviously a shallow one (see Brink network code for the XBox or any Fallout DLC release), but at least there’s something, otherwise, some games would simply be unplayable at launch.

This is a good thing for gamers and a bad thing for the bean counters. I don’t know about you but I get pissed when I drop sixty dollars for a game to then have to sit on my hands for three weeks until the developer fixes what should have worked out of the box.[/QUOTE]

I hear what you are saying. You are right. I just want to point out that its not fair to bring up NES stuff because those games are not Mulitplayer games with lots of working parts, they are for the most part platformers mostly, and single player experiences. Traditionally, PC games have a long standing tradition of fixes, and tweaks post release. And Xbox and PS3 are really just a scaled down version of PC setup and system specs. Sometimes, it seems like gamers will request fixes for games and patches for stuff that is subjective, like balance. Everyone’s idea of balance is different. I am not specifically talking to you when I say this, just in general. Brink has worked well for me. Initially in the first week I faced lag. The rest was what I had expected; I had followed the game off and on while in dev for almost a year. I watched every single video, Dev Diary, commentary so I had a good handle of what I was getting with my money. Honestly, anything that is $60, like a game, I have to do lots of research before I plunk down that much coin.

There are lots of people who seemed to buy Brink thinking they were getting a better COD. Or some kind of Cod+ Revolutionary Gameplay, when in fact all the pre-release videos spelled out what the game was going to be. Lag is the main issue on consoles. I don’t have a PC, so those problems have less to do with me.

I stopped buying PC games for a more streamlined, and simple approach even if at the expense of Super Terrific Graphics. Graphics come absolutely last for me after gameplay, fun, and art style. what’s good about consoles: Just buy a game and plunk it in. then play. at least the patch was there from day one. Also, it seemed like they sorted out most of the lag by week two. That’s pretty dang good. Some games like Gears of War 2, took 6 Title Updates and almost 2 years to get anywhere good in multiplayer! I still don’t play that game. But I just moved on. Sometimes if you make the wrong decision buying a game, you just chalk it up to that and just move on.


(McAfee) #18

Brink had bugs at launch with a too high incident rate, at least most people here would believe they must have seen those problems during QA. I’m not going to list them cause I don’t want to make this another bug listing thread. But just read the change logs.

Singleplayer game or Multiplayer game. If it were an impossibility to patch the game after release (like it was on the NES days). You could have been sure this game (and many others) would have been delayed until at least ALL “known” issues were covered. And not the current day mentality of: It has a few known issues, but let’s launch it anyway and fix those later.

Most problems creep up after launch, that’s true. But at least on Day 0, Brink had a high incident rate of problems. If those problems did in fact leak thru QA. Which both developer and publisher run their own QA sessions. Then maybe the game should have also gone across a more open Beta phase.

If you are going to open a restaurant, you better be sure you get your recipes right from the start. If you are still testing them with your first customers. And they leave the place with a bad taste in their mouth, they will probably give it a lot of thought before coming back. A lot of players have already moved on from Brink, they already got the bad experience of Day-0. And the more time passes, others will get tired of waiting for the miracle patch.

PS: The linux dedicated server should have been a launch feature, not a “we will fix it later”. Most of the issues people are having are all dependent on the servers (their performance, bandwidth, and how are they configured). The more servers the better.

EDIT:
It’s not like it’s the first time id tech 4 has been ported to Linux! Sure the full client may have some different driver/library calls here and there. But how much different can the dedicated server be?