Brink Competition Round-up: The Right Rules and More


(wolfnemesis75) #141

[QUOTE=riptide;340106]Fun to a competitive player is winning because their strategy and ability was better than the other team that day.

It is not fun to win or lose because of something that is completely out of your control. I could list off dozens of things that will help determine the outcome in a game that are out of the players control.

The rules are there to try to restrict as many of those things as possible.

The thing is ultimately what half of the people in thread think won’t ever matter as far as competitive play goes.

And to Anti. Don’t compare a game that wasn’t even in working order and already stated “not balanced for competitive play” to a game like SC2, LoL, or HoN that were all known to be made with the competitive community in mind.[/QUOTE]
You could argue that the rules make it too controlled. Sometimes it is important to have an X-factor that allows for some exciting moments and david vs goliath result. Seriously, incorporating more of Brink in to the Comps is what we are discussing. There’s has to be a way beyond :“You have to remain in this area while hacking on Terminal” kinds of rules. Seems lame. I really question some of the rules.


(neks) #142

that is your opinion.
The major actors of the competition scene wants it otherwise. Because it has a proven record that it has been effective like that for years over many different games.

I understand it could be annoying for SD to see its game denatured because comp players wants to tweak it but it’s the best way to make it live longer; if that was ever a concern.

Also remember that these comp settings could be different/non-existent on the console comp scene(s), who knows.


(Thundermuffin) #143

You still see little guys beating big guys with strict rules; if anything it makes the victory even sweeter because you know you didn’t win just because you got lucky and every random variable was in your favor. The better team will always win, while in pubs the better players don’t always win.

You do realize that you can hack outside of the Reactor in a spot no one would know where you are, unless someone spotted you, and that would be pretty cheap, right? Maybe if Splash Damage would fix stupid stuff like that it would be okay.


(Kendle) #144

If by “X Factor” you mean “random” as opposed to unexpected display of skill / tactics, then no, it isn’t, it really, really isn’t.

I appreciate what I post is my opinion, just as yours is yours, but in this instance if you were to take just one thing I say as the truth and ignore everything else, take this.

Random outcomes are the opposite of what competition is all about.


(wolfnemesis75) #145

[QUOTE=Kendle;340149]If by “X Factor” you mean “random” as opposed to unexpected display of skill / tactics, then no, it isn’t, it really, really isn’t.

I appreciate what I post is my opinion, just as yours is yours, but in this instance if you were to take just one thing I say as the truth and ignore everything else, take this.

Random outcomes are the opposite of what competition is all about.[/QUOTE]

I never said Random Outcome. You came up with that. I meant what I said: X-factor. As in “A Clever Tactic” that catches the other team off-guard or catches them with their pants down.


(Verticae) #146

You’ve never really played a competitive game in your life, have you?


(nephandys) #147

[QUOTE=Kendle;340149]If by “X Factor” you mean “random” as opposed to unexpected display of skill / tactics, then no, it isn’t, it really, really isn’t.

I appreciate what I post is my opinion, just as yours is yours, but in this instance if you were to take just one thing I say as the truth and ignore everything else, take this.

Random outcomes are the opposite of what competition is all about.[/QUOTE]
Just my opinion and thoughts. Random things happen that effect the outcomes of competitions all the time. Sports players getting injured and weather are good examples of this. Also in battles random stuff happens at times to affect the outcome. There’s no such thing as a “pure skill” competition. I also just really don’t see downed fire, cortex, or self revive as “random” or cheesy for that matter. In Brink they are expected skills and tactics built into the game. There’s no randomness about it.

I see all your points about not wanting stalemates. If that’s the overarching goal of competitive play then more power to you. I get what you’re saying.


(wolfnemesis75) #148

[QUOTE=Thundermuffin;340148]You still see little guys beating big guys with strict rules; if anything it makes the victory even sweeter because you know you didn’t win just because you got lucky and every random variable was in your favor. The better team will always win, while in pubs the better players don’t always win.

You do realize that you can hack outside of the Reactor in a spot no one would know where you are, unless someone spotted you, and that would be pretty cheap, right? Maybe if Splash Damage would fix stupid stuff like that it would be okay.[/QUOTE]

Not cheap if you hacked in a spot nobody could spot you. That’s my point. It is a strategy and a viable to outsmart the opponent. You could search for the Operative. It is a team based game. Not an individual kind of game. With the ESL rules it essentially is a gun battle with pseudo-objective gameplay. Everyone is a light, everyone uses the same guns, class distinction is minimal save for getting objectives completed. Honestly what you say is one thing, but some of the rules are a contradiction. Like making it so a Hack can not be removed, but an Op must remain in a designated area. Seems a flawed logic. Same with such and such tactic is deemed “Cheap”.


(wolfnemesis75) #149

Basketball, Soccer, Football, does any of that count? Does gamebattles count? Have you? So funny and so absurd question.


(Kendle) #150

Fair enough.


(wolfnemesis75) #151

[QUOTE=nephandys;340162]Just my opinion and thoughts. Random things happen that effect the outcomes of competitions all the time. Sports players getting injured and weather are good examples of this. Also in battles random stuff happens at times to affect the outcome. There’s no such thing as a “pure skill” competition. I also just really don’t see downed fire, cortex, or self revive as “random” or cheesy for that matter. In Brink they are expected skills and tactics built into the game. There’s no randomness about it.

I see all your points about not wanting stalemates. If that’s the overarching goal of competitive play then more power to you. I get what you’re saying.[/QUOTE]

Agreed. Besides, this is open discussion. Even the OP descriptions states that hopefully the game can be adjust in Comps. So, I play Brink. I think its ok to weigh in! A lot of the the rules are designed to prevent Stalemates. But I still feel a good offense will get the job done. If played correctly rather than as a collection of individuals, which seems to be reflected in the rule sets.


(Thundermuffin) #152

Okay let’s put it this way since you seem to think that isfair and balanced; the game makes it so hacking is insanely hard to do because if you move too far away the hack signal goes down to 1 bar almost instantly; we were playing a PUG and we were only using ESL abilities restriction so we ran outside to hack. It went faster outside the hack area where you weren’t able to been seen easily, it seemed like an exploit since you were hacking through a “major” wall, and were hidden behind those obstructions. When we were hacking inside the stupid thing was down to like 1 bar and was taking forever and we weren’t safe at all. Tell me how the heck is that fair? It isn’t, there’s no possible way it was fair, but alas you think it is. You don’t realize but every decision is suppose to have a risk/reward type of behavior. Running outside not only decreases your risk but it increases your reward! Again, you don’t know what the heck you’re talking about if you think low risk/high reward is fair.

Who cares if everyone is a light? Do you want to know why we’re lights with carb-9s and sea eagles? It’s because Splash Damage wasn’t able to balance the game and nothing else is worth using. Carb-9 is great for short/mid range and the Sea Eagle is a sniper pistol. You don’t get anything from being a medium or heavy; what little HP you get is countered because of the domination that the Carb-9 and Sea Eagle reign upon everyone else.

If you don’t use it, it’s your own fault and you shouldn’t say it’s because of ESL. It’s because of Splash Damage and their poor weapon balancing that they still haven’t addressed. ESL didn’t balance the weapons, the competitive community didn’t balance the weapons, but had either one of them balanced the weapons you’d actually see more of them in use and they might not all be so crappy!

You do realize that it’s quicker to remove a hack box than hack, correct? It isn’t fair for the harder part to take longer and then be removed in 4 seconds, because not only do the offense spawn really far away in both Terminal and Reactor, but the objective rooms are nothing but death traps because of their horrid map design.

In Terminal you have to get into a stupid little room, plant a box/tap the box to get your cellular device out and then hack for 2 or 3+ spawn waves; if they were allowed to dehack, do you really think that the offense would ever win? Same thing with Reactor, once you plant the hackbox you have to try to get back in and that isn’t easy. If you go underneath there’s always 2 mines guarding the stairs, going in from the opposite side is stupid because they’ll know yo u’re coming because someone’s up in mid shooting and throwing moltovs and they have a turret, plus all of their guys are up on the balcony with full buffs and your team may be missing a buff or two.

I’m curious, do you whine at Counter-Strike/TF2/QUAKE community for running with the same weapons, very few maps, and the same class loadouts on every map?


(neks) #153

I think what he meant is that after a few tournaments involving big teams, there will be 1 or 2 main strategies per map and there will be no room for clever tactic after then.


(riptide) #154

[QUOTE=Thundermuffin;340186]

I’m curious, do you whine at Counter-Strike/TF2/QUAKE community for running with the same weapons, very few maps, and the same class loadouts on every map?[/QUOTE]

It’s okay he doesn’t comprehend that the less variation in gameplay the more balanced it is.

He’s one of those purists… and would probably mock the quake community for having 4v4ctf instead of 8v8.


(wolfnemesis75) #155

[QUOTE=Thundermuffin;340186]Okay let’s put it this way since you seem to think that isfair and balanced; the game makes it so hacking is insanely hard to do because if you move too far away the hack signal goes down to 1 bar almost instantly; we were playing a PUG and we were only using ESL abilities restriction so we ran outside to hack. It went faster outside the hack area where you weren’t able to been seen easily, it seemed like an exploit since you were hacking through a “major” wall, and were hidden behind those obstructions. When we were hacking inside the stupid thing was down to like 1 bar and was taking forever and we weren’t safe at all. Tell me how the heck is that fair? It isn’t, there’s no possible way it was fair, but alas you think it is. You don’t realize but every decision is suppose to have a risk/reward type of behavior. Running outside not only decreases your risk but it increases your reward! Again, you don’t know what the heck you’re talking about if you think low risk/high reward is fair.

Who cares if everyone is a light? Do you want to know why we’re lights with carb-9s and sea eagles? It’s because Splash Damage wasn’t able to balance the game and nothing else is worth using. Carb-9 is great for short/mid range and the Sea Eagle is a sniper pistol. You don’t get anything from being a medium or heavy; what little HP you get is countered because of the domination that the Carb-9 and Sea Eagle reign upon everyone else.

If you don’t use it, it’s your own fault and you shouldn’t say it’s because of ESL. It’s because of Splash Damage and their poor weapon balancing that they still haven’t addressed. ESL didn’t balance the weapons, the competitive community didn’t balance the weapons, but had either one of them balanced the weapons you’d actually see more of them in use and they might not all be so crappy!

You do realize that it’s quicker to remove a hack box than hack, correct? It isn’t fair for the harder part to take longer and then be removed in 4 seconds, because not only do the offense spawn really far away in both Terminal and Reactor, but the objective rooms are nothing but death traps because of their horrid map design.

In Terminal you have to get into a stupid little room, plant a box/tap the box to get your cellular device out and then hack for 2 or 3+ spawn waves; if they were allowed to dehack, do you really think that the offense would ever win? Same thing with Reactor, once you plant the hackbox you have to try to get back in and that isn’t easy. If you go underneath there’s always 2 mines guarding the stairs, going in from the opposite side is stupid because they’ll know yo u’re coming because someone’s up in mid shooting and throwing moltovs and they have a turret, plus all of their guys are up on the balcony with full buffs and your team may be missing a buff or two.

I’m curious, do you whine at Counter-Strike/TF2/QUAKE community for running with the same weapons, very few maps, and the same class loadouts on every map?[/QUOTE]

Meh. The hardest part in the game and only real spot I am still trying to figure out a break tactic in is the top landing at street level of Security Tower. The rest can get done by a good team working together. I’d kill that OP you’re talking about hiding or wherever you think he could be that is so hard to stop. Also, you hack faster with more than one Operative. And the ESL Rules penalizes the Operative Class! Thats what I mean by contradictions/flaws in the rules.


(its al bout security) #156

plus the hack speed is so fast now if you took away dehack its a garentted win.


(Verticae) #157

That’s the point. It’s not about who completes the map, it’s about who can do it the fastest.

wolfnemesis, you’re funny.


(wolfnemesis75) #158

Everything in the game has a counter. There is a way to break any objective and defense. You just have to use teamwork. Not individualized attacks. If you hit the terminal as a team and hit your shots, you can get the hack done with a bit of team defense and well thought out Class selection.


(Thundermuffin) #159

You wouldn’t kill the operative because the rest of the team is guarding him. Yes, you hack faster with more than 1 operative, but so what? The operative class has never been amazingly useful in any of the ET games. It was useless for the most part in ET:QW and everyone said it was useless in W:ET. That’s part of the game, man, sometimes things are useless and there’s a reason: other classes do more for the team.

By the way, you shouldn’t talk about “hitting your shots” when the 360 has autoaim. :slight_smile:

I agree with Verticae, though, you’re funny.


(wolfnemesis75) #160

[QUOTE=Thundermuffin;340207]You wouldn’t kill the operative because the rest of the team is guarding him. Yes, you hack faster with more than 1 operative, but so what? The operative class has never been amazingly useful in any of the ET games. It was useless for the most part in ET:QW and everyone said it was useless in W:ET. That’s part of the game, man, sometimes things are useless and there’s a reason: other classes do more for the team.

By the way, you shouldn’t talk about “hitting your shots” when the 360 has autoaim. :slight_smile:

I agree with Verticae, though, you’re funny.[/QUOTE]

If that is true (Operative is not useful) then explain why Four Abilities are removed from the Operative in the ESL rules. And if you answer is any variation of “that’s what PC players want” I will call foul.