Brink beta and my pov


(DarkangelUK) #121

It’s not ‘a’ problem at all, never mind mine… you just did the usual assumption and were completely wrong, makes you look like an arrogant ass “you’ve clearly never made a map or mod mohhhhhhhh”. Regardless of being rude or not, instead of refuting my opinion you just strengthened it… jobsaguddin.

But yeah you did dodge my reply about focus groups missing stuff, and went on about the rude part… your problem not mine? :wink: So am I wrong in saying a wide net should be used? i can’t really tell, you just seemed to take offence at what I said and that’s about it really… join the discussion, it’s fun!


(Apples) #122

Once again a wider net will also increase the confusion in the bug report process, with X amount of people reporting inexistant or unrepeatable bug, remember that mappers / modders are also players in the first place, they’ll focus on finding real bugs and will repeat them in order to spot them clearly for the devs, they also know the game mechanics well (from the previous games) and are well aware of balance issues cuz when you make a map you need to adress these issues.

Thats why I think a tighter net is more effective than a wide one, you may have the same result at the end, but IMO it’ll take longer and it will add extra work for the devs who would need to filter the reports big time with an open beta.

Peace


(jRAD) #123

Stop the arguing, gents.


(DarkangelUK) #124

[QUOTE=Apples;234120]Once again a wider net will also increase the confusion in the bug report process, with X amount of people reporting inexistant or unrepeatable bug, remember that mappers / modders are also players in the first place, they’ll focus on finding real bugs and will repeat them in order to spot them clearly for the devs, they also know the game mechanics well (from the previous games) and are well aware of balance issues cuz when you make a map you need to adress these issues.

Thats why I think a tighter net is more effective than a wide one, you may have the same result at the end, but IMO it’ll take longer and it will add extra work for the devs who would need to filter the reports big time with an open beta.

Peace[/QUOTE]

You seem to be under the impression that me saying allow a wider audience access, then that means just any tom, dick and harry test the game. You can have multiple focus groups from each area of expertise who know how to test a game perfectly well… and find many bugs that modders and mappers wouldn’t find, or even know what to look for. As previous stated… i wouldn’t expect a mapper to know the finer points of ground accel and air friction.


(Armitag3) #125

This is true.
I have done my fare share of beta testing over the years single map testing usually pays off the most. In the case of FPS games and if you have different game modes or types one map per mode/type.

A beta will be awesome but beta or no beta from what I have seen this game will be well worth the wait!!


(MadJack) #126

@DarkAngelUK

Let’s try to stay civil shall we? No finger pointing, whoever started it in the first place, and we’ll be fine. I certainly don’t want to start a flame war on the subject of Beta Testing.

Now, what was the initial question/worry? 'Cause I don’t recall. :frowning: I’ve got some things to do this morning and I’ll argue when I’ll be back.

Peace.


(DarkangelUK) #127

@Jack

No worries, I was in an arse of a mood yesterday so I do apologize. The original debate was if there should be a beta, what type (open/closed), and if closed, who should be invited.


(Apples) #128

Indeed, but I’m also far from certain that air friction is something you really need to understand to test brink out and “stress” a bit the game to find the flaws… Its not like the creator of day of the tentacle knew everything about relativity when they make the game… and yet you were able to cross time :smiley:

I would agree on a uber flight simulator for example, but IMO in a fast FPS you need to test out for :

  • Glitches / map holes / missing textures
  • Balance in weapon
  • Balance of the different maps
  • Broken features (such as non working button / perk / xp count)
  • General gameplay, is this or that too hard / too easy to do?, are the control intuitive?
  • Last but not least, game performance : test different cfg and watch for the droppy fps / choppy animation with a middle end pc etc

Add anything I would have missed anyway, it can be usefull to have a full list of what to check when we’ll have the beta :smiley: Oh wait, I still forget its steam only! me dumby

Peace


(MadJack) #129

Alright! Now that I’m back, let’s start some friendly arguing! :smiley:

First, Beta or not, that’s up to SD to decided. With that said, I would think, like it was with ET:QW, they will hold a beta. If my memory serves, there were two betas, one closed and the other open (who would’ve guessed! :P) I took part in both.

For days and days I played and had a ton of fun, while I ran around, trying stuff, killing Stroggs and Humans. I crashed vehicles, probably a server or two too. :shame:

So, my guess is SD will first sift through applicants’s beta experience for a close beta gathered with by unknown mean for now (applications through the forums might be good) and let the chosen few “have fun” hopefully at least for a couple of weeks.

In any event you will get what I call wannabes. People with no experience in beta’ing games or any software for that matter. Their motivation fill the entire spectrum. Some want to help out, others will help dig out some problems but will enjoy the game more (they will find the most obvious broken stuff) and those dedicated to finding problems. Then there are those who have gone through the pace of testing and know how to do it properly. On that category, you have those that like UI testing and conviviality, others specialize in game play. One doesn’t exclude the other but often times, you have preferences.

Of course, you have to enjoy what you are testing to do a good job. Anyone can improvise himself a beta tester since most game companies don’t share their beta users DB. That’s where common sense enter the arena. I wouldn’t want to be SD to filter through those applications! :smiley: or maybe I should be sad… :frowning:

There are always opportunists who only want to play, find bugs and cry in horror that the game isn’t done, it’s crap, it will fail and <insert game developer here> have let them down. That’s inevitable, like trolls in a forums.

Now, who makes a better tester?

Mappers certainly make good testers but most of them will, like I sometimes do but try not to, concentrate on the visual aspect, holes you can get through (literal and metaphorically) and scripting aspects of a map. I’m not saying all mappers are that way, but maybe you could call it a (bad?) habit.

Then there’s the two categories left. The hardcore gamer and the game fan. Let’s tackle the game fan first.

The game fan is the guy/gal that has taken an account as soon as s/he heard about the game, know pretty much everything by heart and dream of said game almost every night. Ok ok, I’m slightly exaggerating, but fans tend to be extreme. Some fans follow what’s going on, read some posts, watch videos and can’t wait to see the final product or beta it. Those people certainly can make good testers but sometimes will be disappointed by stuff that has been changed in the game and simply can’t cope with it, turning into a troll. I’ve seen it happen. But I do think most of those are understanding and forgiving. In the long run they understand the changes. I think they do make good testers.

We come last to the hardcore gamer. He usually is a hardcore gamer and a fan mixed together. He comes to the forums almost daily, he is sometimes a lurker, but others are deeply involved in discussions. Honestly I don’t think they then to be the best testers. Rather the contrary. I have seen that on ET:QW where those hardcore players jumped into the map and played like hell for hours on end. Their only goals were to find kiting spots, exploits of all kind AND keep it all to themselves and their clan, so they can use these to their advantage. They will submit bugs too but rarely those that could give them an edge after launch.

In a freaking big nutshell that’s what I think.

As usual, I’m very verbose. Sorry about that. :wink:


(BioSnark) #130

a fact that seems to tie in to every discussion tho how idk :confused:


(Apples) #131

Cuz as I said I prolly wont buy the game with steam only I have to remember this, as my arguments have defacto almost no weight in any way :wink:

Peace


(Kl3ppy) #132

apples, u forgot the important thing.
U have to test, if t-bags are working. :smiley:

Enough trolled for today :smiley:


(DarkangelUK) #133

Movement physics have a lot to do with the game and testing. In the early builds of ETQW you had a fast ground accel and little friction that allowed better air accel… that meant you could ramp over the wall on Volcano in a lot of places quite easily, and navigating the map was verging on Q3 strafes with the right timing (not quite as fast but definite velocity increase). The EMP nades had some major kick and little damage, combined with ramping and ground/air accel you hurdle just about any wall or gap… you could make it into the strogg spawn over the energy walls np. This is where the wider net comes in to play… i’d say using the physics to reach areas of the map not intended and potentially swaying the map in a teams favour is just as important missing as textures and transparent brushes.

Do you think a mapper had any idea this was possible? Ground accel, air strafe, edge skip and ramp all in one. I fully understand why you would have mappers and modders in testing, that’s completely obvious… my issue was the suggestion that you ONLY have them in there.


(AnthonyDa) #134

[quote=Apples;234158]
Add anything I would have missed anyway, it can be usefull to have a full list of what to check when we’ll have the beta :smiley: Oh wait, I still forget its steam only! me dumby

Peace[/quote]
Idd, VALVe is evil and wants to steal all your money !

Still not banned btw ? http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/56237/Modern-Warfare-2-PC-Players-Pissed-Over-Random-Bans


(hideinlight) #135

Just do the exact same thing Heroes of Newerth did, worked like a charm.

Controlled population growth, that way the game can hit critical mass near launch. Make people beg for closed beta keys up until open beta. That gets people really interested in a game, who wouldn’t want to be one of the first players to play the game and be part of the development of the game in some small way.
Just for interest sake, HoN had 60k players concurrent players online in open beta, at retail there were 35k concurrent players online. It retained more than half of it’s population.

It’s better to slowly grow a playerbase than to wait for a miracle launch.


(Nail) #136

you can’t compare apples to volkswagons, FPS have different aspects to consider than RPGs


(MadJack) #137

As a team-based game I really do think Brink needs a good beta period. Try as they might, the devs can’t find all the problems, the servers have to be stressed and tweaked, etc.

Beside, it’s the best way to create hype. There is also the other side of the coin…


(CaNiBaL Elite) #138

I think a beta/demo would be great. Take a look at what OXM US did with the FFXI port. Now if you release a beta or demo use the magazines like OXM, ect. But when done playing the beta/demo have a survey, for feedback.


(SockDog) #139

I like the idea of in-game survey before you can play. Sure you’ll get some people who’ll BS their way through but if they are short enough to be done in under a minute yet issued regularly SD should at least get some feedback from the beta short of a forum full of howling.


(Apples) #140

hmmmm just click : YES / YES / YES ad lib and you can play? weird solution IMO, and pretty much work to exclude the guyz who do that regularly

Peace