_blocksize

(sampo) #1

sooooo
I had this error for a while MAX_MAP_VISIBILITY exceeded
made everything detail that should be detail and damn i had many portals left
so i doubled the blocksize… still too many because still had this error
4288 portalclusters
11487 numportals
3065 numfaces
************ ERROR ************
MAX_MAP_VISIBILITY exceeded

so i doubled again and i had 3165 visportals

so now my question…
i changed my _blocksize to 4096 4096
… this way im able to make bsp’s with -vis
but… does this have any negative points?? like heavy FPS lowering or something???

or what else can i do to lower the amount of portals??
anything related to really small blocks with many sides?

(-SSF-Sage) #2

The error is really self explanatory. It tells you that you see too many portals at some certain point(s). A cheap workaround is just what you did (bigger blocksize) but it comes with a major expense. It really weakens out the vis block (thus a lot worse fps) in most maps. As you got this error I assume you have a big outdoor map.

Best fix would be to just work more on the vis (hints&structural brushes) and with normal blocksize (or bigger if the situation needs it, with big outdoor map 2048 might be good too).

Also do note than one portal doesn’t hold too many solid brushes in it (aka not too big portals). It also weakens up performance.

Speaking about vis and performance, it is always heavily dependable on the map.

(sampo) #3

it’s actually a tj map with just normal sized rooms…
so i was wondering what would cause the many portals…
i have some rocks like same big as players are with over 10 sides…
or crystals with lots of sides
also cones… and a vulcan made with some terrain program long ago… so made with lots of brushes too…
but since i made all those detail i didn’t think it would hurt much

so the only option would be master hint…
last time i did hints i only got more portals lol

47053 vis portals with hint and 45465 without hint xd
really i have no idea how i got this many

(Qualmi) #4

you gonna hate me for that, but ill suggest you the hardest way of all. but after that you probably will like it this way more than the blocksize stuff. of course its only one of the many choices. so to get rid of this error you have to set _blocksize to 0 and make your whole map without the skybox detail. you can do this easily by simply pressing i in radiant, which will result in having every single brush of your map selected. then just deselect the 6 skybox-sides and make everything selected detail. compile and your error should be fixxed. ok…this is part 1. the second part is understanding the hinting and stuff lol. there are many tutorials out there. goolge for “nibsworld hint tutorial” or sth.

and if your error should not be fixed, then sth else should be the problem. i never had this error, so i simply go with sages explanations about that error.

(Qualmi) #5

you gonna hate me for that, but ill suggest you the hardest way of all. but after that you probably will like it this way more than the blocksize stuff. of course its only one of the many choices. so to get rid of this error you have to set _blocksize to 0 and make your whole map without the skybox detail. you can do this easily by simply pressing i in radiant, which will result in having every single brush of your map selected. then just deselect the 6 skybox-sides and make everything selected detail. compile and your error should be fixxed. ok…this is part 1. the second part is understanding the hinting and stuff lol. there are many tutorials out there. goolge for “nibsworld hint tutorial” or sth.

and if your error should not be fixed, then sth else should be the problem. i never had this error, so i simply go with sages explanations about that error.

(sampo) #6

so there’s lots of rooms with brushes in it all connected to eachother…
and when i stand in spawn i can actually see like 1/3 of all the rooms with showtris 2
so i guess i found out the problem?? :stuck_out_tongue:
now i need to find out how those hint textures work then to prevent this i guess ._.

(Qualmi) #7

brushes connected to each other ?

this is about hinting and structuralbrushes and blocksize. at least this is what we suppose and probably is the problem. brushes connected to each other sounds weird :confused:

also if you have a trickjumpmap with many many rooms i suggest you have a trickjump map with like many many rooms which have a starting point, then you jump to the end and then you teleport yourself to the next room ? so if this is the case, you dont even have to make yourself some thoughts about hinting (imo), caus why would i try to block vis in a room where you cant block so much, and if i can block some stuff, then i make such an effort to only block about 1000 tris units less ? this makes no sense and you should really think twice if its worth the effort. also: whats the problem in making everything detail and then just make your 6 room walls structural (with blocksize set to 0) ?

is this really worth the effort. get rid of the error and dont learn about structural and hinting stuff. you dont have to. nobody forces you to do that and in this case its probably best if you only make every wall of your rooms structural, without real understanding.

(sampo) #8

well i want that bsp with light and vis and bounce8 stuff because it has so much better light that -light - fast or something

and you’re right… whenever there’s a teleport the whole showtris resets to a new place…
but first teleport is at 1/3 of my map :stuck_out_tongue:

now trying that blocksize 0… now i got 21 visportals instead of 45465 xd…
but then another question… because it seems it’s working too…
does this have any bad side effects?? ;o

edit: now i had like 60-70 fps -.-

oh and i ment all the rooms connected to eachother… not the brushes only xd

edit2: hmm changing a lot between 70-120 actually… depends wich angle you look at :stuck_out_tongue:

(Paul) #9

> 25 FPS is good for eye. Anything above >60 is great :smiley:
SO don’t worry it’s ‘only’ 70.

(sampo) #10

yea thought so… i always play with max fps 76… some maps it plays better xd
oh well so or it’s giving hint a try… or putting teleports after every room.
or play with around 90 fps like this… ;o

thnx for ur help all of u ;o
and i guess ill keep it this way… going to try a light bsp… last time it took 1 hour and 30 mins so let’s see how long it takes this time lol

(Qualmi) #11

[QUOTE=Scary;196377]Anything above >60 is great :smiley:
SO don’t worry it’s ‘only’ 70.[/QUOTE]

it depends. there really is a difference between 125 and 70.

[QUOTE=sampo;196375]
now trying that blocksize 0… now i got 21 visportals instead of 45465 xd…
but then another question… because it seems it’s working too…
does this have any bad side effects?? ;o

edit: now i had like 60-70 fps -.-
:p[/QUOTE]

im not an expert, but there shouldnt be anything bad about blocksize 0. i used it alot and actually all it does is create less portals and nodes.

(Pande) #12

Qualmi… that is the LAST thing he should be doing. Hinting is only good if their are structural brushes to be used with it.

(FireFly) #13

FPS doesn’t mean anything: Just because you have an avarage of 90fps in your map doesn’t mean that everyone else will have 90pfs while playing your map…

Perhaps you have a high end pc system and other players with a ‘low’ end system will only get 20 or 30 fps in your map… In other words: fps is a bad indicator.

Instead you should use r_speeds as an indicator.

r_speeds are univeral as they display the amount of tris ( or triangles) the engine will draw.

Everyone - no matter what kind of pc you got, high end or low end- will get the same amount of r_speeds in a particular spot in a map…

Now, of all 6 stock maps, the fueldump map has a spot that gives you the highest r_speeds.

/devmap fueldump
/cg_drawfps 1
/com_maxfps 999
/con_drawnotify 1
/r_speeds 1

As you can see the engine draws over 36K tris. You should use this as an indicator: use /con_drawnotify 1and /r_speeds 1 in your own map and make sure it doesn’t go over 36000 tris while running around in your map.

(Qualmi) #14

pande. there is nothing bad about setting the blocksize to 0. he have fixed his error (wheras blocksize was most likley NOT the reason for it, but there was a certain possibility and i simply wanted to exclude that by proposing that) and everything is fine now.

as a postive side effect he wont have any additional portals, as his map most likely will look like this

many squared rooms and at the end of every room a teleporter. still “the LAST thing he should do” ?

(Qualmi) #15

did i say anything else ?

(Qualmi) #16

pande. there is nothing bad about setting the blocksize to 0. he have fixed his error (wheras blocksize was most likley NOT the reason for it, but there was a certain possibility and i simply wanted to exclude that by proposing that) and everything is fine now.

as a postive side effect he wont have any additional portals, as his map most likely will look like this

many squared rooms and at the end of every room a teleporter. still “the LAST thing he should do” ?

did i say anything else ?

(-SSF-Sage) #17

The problem with blocksize 0 will be exactly the reason why the command exists. Too much brushes inside one portal will cause performance drops (I wonder if it happens only when you shoot, as it’s the collision calculation that causes the drops). The amount of portals you said (24) is clearly too small for such an amount of brushes.

I understood your map has just row of rooms (for example like chocojump). The walls should be structural atleast (everything inside is detail). Then if you still get the error with default blocksize, increase the size. To give more specific help we need to know even more info about the map (possibly some pics). Also if you have a huge box around the map without a reason, get rid of it.

Oh yeah. And for a tj map I want a stable 125 fps or I won’t bother playing it. Stable 333 is even better.

(Pande) #18

Blocksize 0 is fine. Infact, I recommend it. But making the map all detail except for skybox, now THAT is a bad idea.

(Qualmi) #19

i didnt recommend that as you see. i said everything correct. seems ppl want to misread me :confused: as sage said. give me the map and i can make more specialized comments.

edit: aa. and to go 100% sure. i said hinting and stuff. read pl0x ! i know you want me :smiley:

(-SSF-Sage) #20

Blocksize 0 is fine in some situations yes. But I doubt it is any sort of solution here, seeing the portal count of 21! I would never ever recommend blocksize 0 if the mapper didn’t know exactly what he was doing (aka manually making needed cuts with hint brushes).