Bitey's First Feedback post ^_^


(Bitey) #1

So after finally getting some time into Dirtybomb, lerking the forums, and joining in on a few pugs (<3 Potty) I’m confident about sharing my current opinions of the game. Alittle history before I get started, sadly I never played ET or any of the previous titles with similar game play. Most of my gaming ‘career’ I’ve been a high level player of many types of fps games.

To start off, I’ve really enjoyed my fresh look into Dirty Bomb and I see myself sticking with its core combat staying on track :slight_smile: The gibbing process seems to be something of an artform, while killing and clearing is important there comes a balance in finding when to gib and when to focus on the objectives. It adds something I’ve never considered before in a shooter on having to ‘finish’ the deed. Since I never played the ET/QW games it’s interesting to learn this unique mechanic.

ADS/Hipfire:

Another interesting mixup is the hipfire/ads combination, in it’s current implementation it feels like both firing mods provide excellent choices at all ranges and zones. Depending on how well you can shoot in both styles, each serves an import set of skills for the player to be confident in. The recoil management of ADS and the spread control of hipfire. My only grip with some of the weapon in ADS, is that it’s rather hard to tell exactly where the center of the ironsight can be. If you could add a small bright green blip at the end of each weapon or something to highlight the ‘true center’ it’d help out. This issue was more prevalent for myself in the previous build, but lately it’s been much more manageable due to the newest tweaks.


Gunfights:

The gun battles are probably one of the most enjoyable things I find about Dirtybomb. The low weapon damage allows for engaging combat that revolves around tracking, twitch, and movement all combined into the perferct throwback to older shooters. My only gripe is the current balance of headshot damage vs bodyshot damage. While normally there is no real issue between the two, I can’t help but feel both dishing and receiving headshots is slightly too beneficial to the players. What I mean by that is from some intel that SDToomic explained about headshots dealing 2.0x damage modifiers.

From reading into the old posts, I noticed something about the TTK(Time to kill) engagements. There was a small poll with most in favor, however there was still a few who viewed it at too fast. I’d suggest trying to lower the headshot damage multiplier to a 1.5/1.75x just to see how that promotes good movement and aim further. It could also allow for more exciting frags of ‘recovery’ plays where a player receives of flank, and can attempt to make a craft recovery with solid aim and movement. :slight_smile:

Frag grenades…

I dont miss them :slight_smile: While they are great tools, stay the course Splash Damage just stick to the core of solid gunplay with special support abilities.

The one thing I would recommend, is balancing around the special abilities of all the classes. Each tool should serve an important function and be able to add strongly to a fight in it’s own way. IE…

Buff the turret targeting speed just alittle, lower it’s time to lock by a 100ms so it actually spits some bullets out. :smiley:

Buff the Con nade more, it just isn’t very disorientating.

Adds smoke grenade or other fancy tools.

Spectator:

I feel that this is the real crucial part to making Dirty Bomb a fun to watch and experience game. It’s current iteration is a great start, however I just want to make sure that you(The dev team) are fully aware of what techniques can be used to make watching a warzone unfold an exciting spectacle for pros and casuals alike.

These are just a few different spectator styles that at some point I’d love to see pieces of inclusion into:

Dystopia(Source mod)


First person spectate, highlights enemy players through walls and loadouts.
On death zoom out of body death allow a look at combat, transfer camera over to the slayers POV.
Third person chase camera, perspective is controllable by mouse moving.
Freecamera option available.

Natural Selection 2


Top down view of combat. The spectator is able to draw doodles on the map like John Madden play sketch lines.
Allows for transition between topdown view and First person view.

This mode is important because most casual players prefer to see the warzone unfold from a high vantage point. The benefit to this is it allows spectators to highlight the attack paths and the ways that attackers and defenders take routes or into combat as well as add sketch lines for potential attacks.


That’s about all I’ve got for this moment since it’s extremly late I’ve decided to cut this short here and cotinune at another time. All in all, I love the direction the game is being taken and I have confidence that you(Splash Damage) are on the right track to create a fun game.


(Kendle) #2

[QUOTE=Bitey;462088]The gun battles are probably one of the most enjoyable things I find about Dirtybomb. The low weapon damage allows for engaging combat that revolves around tracking, twitch, and movement all combined into the perferct throwback to older shooters. My only gripe is the current balance of headshot damage vs bodyshot damage. While normally there is no real issue between the two, I can’t help but feel both dishing and receiving headshots is slightly too beneficial to the players. What I mean by that is from some intel that SDToomic explained about headshots dealing 2.0x damage modifiers.

From reading into the old posts, I noticed something about the TTK(Time to kill) engagements. There was a small poll with most in favor, however there was still a few who viewed it at too fast. I’d suggest trying to lower the headshot damage multiplier to a 1.5/1.75x just to see how that promotes good movement and aim further. It could also allow for more exciting frags of ‘recovery’ plays where a player receives of flank, and can attempt to make a craft recovery with solid aim and movement. :slight_smile:
[/QUOTE]

You won’t get much support for that here, most Alpha testers are ex ET / ET:QW and they believe tracking is the only skill worth anything, and many think the current body damage is too high and / or the head to body damage differential too low, i.e. they’d like lower body shot damage with a higher headshot multiplier (say 2.5x) to compensate. The theory being that currently there’s no need to aim for the head because the current low differential ensures shooting at the body mass gets the job done just as well.

Still, it’s interesting to get the perspective of someone who hasn’t played previous SD titles, it just goes to show that players from different games have a different appreciation of what “skill” means. Personally I agree with you that the gun-play in DB is a nice mix between the traditional “tracking” game-play of previous SD titles and the “twitch” element that most other FPS’s major on.


(Kl3ppy) #3

[QUOTE=Kendle;462100]
Still, it’s interesting to get the perspective of someone who hasn’t played previous SD titles, it just goes to show that players from different games have a different appreciation of what “skill” means. Personally I agree with you that the gun-play in DB is a nice mix between the traditional “tracking” game-play of previous SD titles and the “twitch” element that most other FPS’s major on.[/QUOTE]

I like the actual gun-play too :slight_smile:


(stealth6) #4

I agree that tracking is a big part of the game, but I think it needs to be balanced with superior positioning. If you manage to flank the enemy and they’re just camping 1 spot (not moving) you should be able to execute them with a few shots to the head.

Another thing that balanced the high multiplier in previous titles is the knockback the player received when he got hit in the head. If you were aiming for the enemies head and he hits you in the head, your crosshair bounces up, so you miss. (hopefully that makes some sense :smiley: )


(slanir) #5

[QUOTE=stealth6;462112]I agree that tracking is a big part of the game, but I think it needs to be balanced with superior positioning. If you manage to flank the enemy and they’re just camping 1 spot (not moving) you should be able to execute them with a few shots to the head.

Another thing that balanced the high multiplier in previous titles is the knockback the player received when he got hit in the head. If you were aiming for the enemies head and he hits you in the head, your crosshair bounces up, so you miss. (hopefully that makes some sense :smiley: )[/QUOTE]

The bouncing crosshair was one of the most annoying features in ET for me :tongue:

I agree with most if not all what bitey said


(Protekt1) #6

More reward for headshots by reducing body shot slightly would be nice. Also perhaps a bit more recoil to ads on some guns especially the MGs.

I feel like the full auto spray is both too effective and at the same time a little bit too random. So reduce spread on hip, reduce bodyshot damage, reduce rof a bit, increase ads recoil some on certain weapons.


(prophett) #7

[QUOTE=Protekt1;462160]More reward for headshots by reducing body shot slightly would be nice. Also perhaps a bit more recoil to ads on some guns especially the MGs.
[/QUOTE]

I would also like to test these two points.

Nice feedback Bitey.


(Mustang) #8

How does reducing the headshot multiplier promote good aim?

Surely it does the opposite, i.e. much larger area to aim for = less need for good aim.


(1-800-NOTHING) #9

yay, hs lottery…


(Bitey) #10

I’ve been thinking about how to break this down so here’s my best shot:

So lets take a weapon that deals 5 damage per shot against an enemy who has 100 hp

It takes 20 bodyshot bullets to frag this enemy.
Headshots will make it 10 bullets to frag the enemy with a 2x multiplier.

That means that you will always have a variance of 10-20 bullets to frag this opponent.

Adjusting the HS multiplier allows you to increase or decrease the minimum amount of bullets needed to take a frag. This means that you’re maximum amount of bullets will still remain 20, but you’re minimum will be adjusted. By tweaking this vairable you can theoretically extend the duration of a fight by requiring more precision over time to commit to a kill.

Higher headshot damage doesn’t give you more skill, it just means you need less bullets/time to take a frag. This doesn’t necessarily mean that it takes more or less skill to complete the kill, it just means that you can be rewarded more for getting a positional advantage on an enemy.

By decreasing the multiplier you give the ‘victom’ more of a fighting chance against a flank. It increased the total duration of the fight by increasing the minimum amount of bullets needed for a kill. It doesn’t devalue headshots however, due to the fact that they still provide extra damage that makes a sizable difference.

example w 1.8 modifer:

5 damage per shot
20 bodyshots to kill
12 headshots to kill at 9 damage a shot.

The means the vairence of bullets now goes from 10-20 previous to 12-20. Meaning the the minimum shots to kill has been raised.

Does it make sense now :DDD


(INF3RN0) #11

[QUOTE=Bitey;462729]
Does it make sense now :DDD[/QUOTE]

But your not taking into account that it is much harder to land headshots than body shots with such a fast paced game. The reward for headshots at 2x is pretty solid, however there’s a problem with body shot damage being too high on some weapons since it is much easier to aim at the body mass vs the head. The soldier in particular benefits from not having to aim at the head via having the highest body shot damage, where as other class weapons almost require it. In combination with the fairly fast RoF, you get people complaining about TTK and aim skill overall because of these reasons.


(Hundopercent) #12

Personally I think 8-10 body 3 head is ideal. Rewards skill and creates a ceiling.


(Volcano) #13

you’re going to need to lower the RoF on all the rifles if that’s the road you want to go down Strych


(stealth6) #14

Yes please! :smiley:


(Hundopercent) #15

I’ve mentioned the RoF being too high in the past. :slight_smile:


(twincannon) #16

Just started playing the game (and loving it!) so grain of salt etc., but I was getting absolutely stomped at first because I was mostly focusing on chest shots. Once I started forcing myself to track heads (even with machine gun etc.) I started doing much better in combat.


(Erkin31) #17

I see Dystopia and TwinCannon in the same thread.
Are you the TwinCannon of Puny human ?