BIG BIG caulking problem.....

(cicero) #1

Hello!

I’ve got a really BIG problem…

I’ve made my map, ALL of my map by adding texture to each brush. That way the texure then goes on all sides making the map really slow.
Now when almost finished my map is REALY REALY slow… Got a tip in my last post here that it’s possible to add texture to just one side of a brush so the question then will be:

How do I smartest add caulk to sides that aren’t visible? Is there some smart command in GtkRadiant or some program out on the net that automaticly search for such sides and add a caulk texture there or do I manually have to add it on each and every brush?

Please, there are about 138 000 brushes in my map…
I’ve Also got some houses, four floors high AND turned 45 degrees so it’s really a BIG BIG BIG problem…

Thx for all help you might give me as I don’t want to start over again…

Thx once again!

(flashkillaman) #2

press the side you wanna caulk with ctrl+shift+leftklick

(Osirin Ra) #3

looks like your in for some hefty retexturing!

look at it this way maybe you will find things you wuld like to change in your adventures in caulking land!

(redfella) #4

Ummm, well I’m still under the impression that when bsping q3map automatically culls unseen faces according to leaf locations. This is something that I have been wondering about for along time now… Is this correct Sock or not??

If so, it then theoretically wouldnt matter if you had unseen textured faces… The only reason you would worry about caulking unseen faces would be to prevent z-fighting.

edit: edited for clarification

(cicero) #5

Hello!

Thanks for all teh fast answers! One other thing though, when caulking I get A LOT of small white dots along the edges of almost every brush… How do I get rid of them? Or might I be so lucky that they will disapear when compiling?

By the way, what is “z-fighting”?

Thx!!!

Jiee, I’ll be a GOD at caulking when I’m done…hehehe 138.000 brushes and still counting…hehehe… 138.000, 137.999, 137.998, 137,997, 137.996…

(cicero) #6

Well I can tell this so far, my adventures in “caulking-land” really makes you wonder what you doing…hehehe…

(ziege) #7

I get some of that in Radiant, but it doesn’t show up when compiled. However if your brushes aren’t lined up perfectly, then you probably will get it in the game too. You’ll find out soon enough :slight_smile: The dots are called ‘sparklies’ I think.

By the way, what is “z-fighting”?

You know when two textures occupy the same space, like you overlap brushes and get that zig-zaggy effects where it tries to display both textures at once? That’s z-fighting.

(hummer) #8

You’re kinda right. The engine culls textures you are facing. So lets say, you had a wall (textured on all sides). The texures on the other side of the wall, the top, bottom, and maybe even a side or two if you were lined up right would not be drawn.

However, lets say you cut your wall brush in half from the top. So, looking at it from the top, it would be cut in half. Now, lets assume those brushes are all textured.

What happens here, is both wall fronts are drawn now. Why? Because you’re still facing both walls. Even though the wall behind the first wall is invisible to you.

This happens sometimes when splitting up brushes. When you’re clipping a brush in half, and you keep both sides, a texture replaces the caulk at times. Then, when you run through with show_tris on, you’ll see the tris being drawn within the walls, even though it’s impossible for the user to see them.

(redfella) #9

ummm no… What you just described is technically called “zebraing”. And occurs only when two textures are on the same plane.

Z-fighting is when two textures fight to be displayed (in-game)… It occurs when u got a texture half inside and half outside of a portal (I believe) and the textures are NOT on the same plane. Someone correct me if I’m wrong.

(redfella) #10

So, per your example, would I be able to run around to the other side of this brush and see the textures? Or is the other side of the brush touching the void?

The answer to this question will answer the topic question.

(DeAtHmAsTeR) #11

Ok, just had a look at Ciceros .map file he just sent me - ALL of his easy gen terrain is texture - yes ALL surfaces of EVERY triangle. and there must b about 1000+ triangles there if im not mistaken.

I selected the whole of his map and changed it to a stone texture and im just going to have a run around init in game.

I would advise you to make this map again from the start - and export the houses (and caulk them) as prefabs into a new map - and think very carefully about the whole map.

Use a thin mesh when using Easy Gen or else you have basically eliminated the possibilty of caves (unless you fuck around with the brushes and change their heights which is wasted time).

I recomend to make a brush with caulk first - shape it how you want - and then add textures.

(ziege) #12

Oops, I guess the tut I read about that got it wrong then. Strange I mentioned z-fighting here a few days ago and questioned if I used the correct term, and someone said I had. Oh well, thanks for correcting it :slight_smile:

I’m not sure what z-fighting is myself now though, I thought it was where two textures fight to display at the same time and didn’t know it had anything to do with portals. Anyone got a screenshot of z-fighting so I know what it looks like in future? :slight_smile:

(cicero) #13

Ok, thx!

So if I get it, I should not bother the white dots as they will disappear when compiling the map, as all walls are made up of big pieces in which I placed a smaller box and hollowed out windows, doors and so on. (I therefore assume the new smaller brushes are perfecly lined up as hollowing out won’t move pieces around). So, do I still have to caulk everything (the remaining 110.000 pieces or so…) or can I just leave it as it is (VERY heavy in GtkRadiant) and the map will still run smooth in ET after beeing compiled?

Sorry for all the questions…

Once again, I’d love to get comment on my work so far so anyone who feels for it, please email me and I’ll send you my map in GtkRadiant format back to you… (zipfile approx: 950kb)

THX AGAIN!

I O U ALL BIG TIME…

(DeAtHmAsTeR) #14

You could try and use Hinting VERY Cleverly. and use detail brushes on Everything apart from buildings

(ziege) #15

How about selecting the terrain group, caulking it, then holding down shift+crtl+alt and dragging the mouse over the terrain surface, turning it all red in one go. Surely it can’t take that long? :slight_smile: Then again I haven’t seen it so don’t know… but 950KB can’t be that big, can it?

(cicero) #16

Well I will not have any caves…
and yes, teh whole terrain is made by EasyGen…
I’ve made the terrain very bumpy as it shall reflect the terrain where I’ve grown up and it looks realy realistic though…

But if I select the whole terrain and caulk it, then adding texture to just the visable side won’t this save me some work and gain a lot of speed?

Well I can of course export the buildings and start the map over again, the thing is though that I’ve made up every single piece/brush and twisted it around and added texture when it will be in the right direction and turned the brush back again and put in place… This way I’ve got all the wood, metall and so on in the right direction…

Exporting the buildings means twisting the whole house with all its 100+ parts around and around and around and around and around again and again…

I’d love to send my map (approx: 950 kb as zipfile) to all of you willing to evaluate and tip me on how to easiest fix it…

THX!

(chavo_one) #17

It was my understanding that z-fighting is, as zeige described, when two textured brush faces occupy the same z-buffer depth and fight for screen time. In other words, overlapping textured brushes.

I’ve never heard of portals being used in a discussion of z-fighting. Can we get another opinion?

@DeAtHmAsTeR: Thin mesh terrain should not be a suggestable solution. Ydnar has spoken against this method of terrain.

ydnar> it’ll increase the map planes by a factor of two
ydnar> thin mesh = bad

IOW: Longer compile times!

(ziege) #18

For me, that would be (by far) the fastest method. Caulk the lot then texture just the sides you need to.

(redfella) #19

First off, zeige never said “z-buffer depth”… he said “space”… which I implied to mean ‘plane’… Hence my description.

Second, zebraing and z-fighting ARE two seperate things (but both make ure map look ugly). Zebraing is when 2 textures on the same plane. Z-fighting is a fight for the z-dimension between two textures NOT on the same plane.

I mentioned portals for I believe that they are the culprit which makes z-fighting possible.

(Flash95) #20

To get you ground to line up this is what I did
select one triange of your ground.
press CTRL +G
select undo from the menu (this will select your entire ground)
you can then use CTRL +G to line up everything.
as well as do a global texture application