So, I have been trying to make the point of using the Mercs to balance both “Power” and “Skill” for a long time now… I feel the game is too hard for new/newbie players from both a fun and effectiveness point of view. I have tried to explain how some mercs should be very easy to use and do ok with but be capped on their effectiveness so not to be overpowered in good players hands… We already have the complete opposite of this in Mercs like Vasseli. Vasseli is pretty useless in the hands of a low skilled player and borderline over powered in good hands when what we are really lacking is Mercs that are strong in poor players hands but lack the top end output to make them overpowered…
I have been trying to come up with a way of tackling this issue for a while now and I am still working on it… For now I would recommend watching this…
[QUOTE=PixelTwitch;505729]So, I have been trying to make the point of using the Mercs to balance both “Power” and “Skill” for a long time now… I feel the game is too hard for new/newbie players from both a fun and effectiveness point of view. I have tried to explain how some mercs should be very easy to use and do ok with but be capped on their effectiveness so not to be overpowered in good players hands… We already have the complete opposite of this in Mercs like Vasseli. Vasseli is pretty useless in the hands of a low skilled player and borderline over powered in good hands when what we are really lacking is Mercs that are strong in poor players hands but lack the top end output to make them overpowered…
[/QUOTE]
I really think we have enough nub friendly weapons… Turrets, Mines, Nader, that invisible guy, Rhino…
The Problem is there are not enough nubs playing the game XD If you play other games you have like 10% good players 50% casual players and 40% low players on a server.
[QUOTE=trickykungfu;505734]I really think we have enough nub friendly weapons… Turrets, Mines, Nader, that invisible guy, Rhino…
The Problem is there are not enough nubs playing the game XD If you play other games you have like 10% good players 50% casual players and 40% low players on a server.[/QUOTE]
this. most players turn away from the game after a few hours or less. I’ve never seen newbies who made progress over a few weeks. They just walk away.
[QUOTE=trickykungfu;505734]I really think we have enough nub friendly weapons… Turrets, Mines, Nader, that invisible guy, Rhino…
The Problem is there are not enough nubs playing the game XD If you play other games you have like 10% good players 50% casual players and 40% low players on a server.[/QUOTE]
Those aren’t newbie friendly classes because of their abilities on that list Rhino is likely the only one who semi-fills that roll on the field. Lets not forget to mention the ‘invisible’ guy was always bad and now even removed, Proxy is built on a glass cannon with low hp, and the turret is easy enough to destroy.
The real struggle likely comes from the speed of this game compared to most other titles which makes the bar so high that only a very few can achieve. All of the mercs share the same general idea of make proper decisions, quick movements, and pinpoint aim which means if a player is unable to perform those three things they’ll struggle to do well. The other factors that likely contribute to player falloff is the power of a skilled player destroys any player lessor then them.
I feel that in general the entire game should be slowed down as a whole potentially to where it was before the speed increase(From the past?) was made. Then do a second pass of rebalancing all the mercs to move at different rates. Currently all the male Fops/Engineer/Snipers move at the exact same speed, why not add a 15%+/- speed variance between all of them? ’
I made a post much further in the past that took this idea to the extreme rather then keeping anything from class based gameplay, it should move in the other direction towards personalized merc gameplay where every character is unique. That means speed, dps, health, acceleration and abilities not just as it is currently with weapons and abilities.
I also agree that this game is very noob friendly… There are some very OP guns along with Turrets that I can very seem to kill in time. Seems like anyone can kill anyone and RIGHT NOW the best players in the game are the best trackers. The best Trackers that can fight through the lag, glitching and incredibly un-smooth game.
Maybe I should restate it - This games its Pro friendly and its also not noob friendly!
It has no feel and only one gun feels like it actually hit the player.
I played Phoenix and its super fun to run around but getting 10 or more headshots and the person still doesnt die is ridiculous.
Fragger and Thunder still cant lay-down consistent fire before the spread goes crazy…
Game still does not have sweet 1 v 1’s or epic RLRL battles… Plus right now thats all it this game has is rlrl… TTK is so fast if magically all your bullets hit.
Every-time I click shoot I am crossing my fingers that my bullets will hit.
Shotguns are ridiculous… The damage seems so inconsistent! The movement of a shotgun player is also ridiculous as they teleport all over the place.
The way the gun shoot now this will be a Add-On Red-dot game… No RLRL just bring up the red-dot and pop heads. We dont see this right now because the default iron-sights are so hard to use (see)!
ET, RTCW and CS have it right for a game like this… No Iron-sights…
People are always going to use the most OP class to kill an people are going to QQ! Like everyone does for Arty. Atry feels the most accurate… Is he? NOPE! He is the combination of acc and power. Put Phoenix damage back to 9 and “some” people will start to use him and only need 8 hs to kill someone rather then 10 but that give higher skill players an advantage.
I still dont get Saw his gun is so random!
Same with Stoker and that other AR guy… I watched people pay them and the RLRL spray and pray but also drawn down their mouse to make up for the recoil and the fire fight lasts forever in that example. I think the better players with saw and the AR’s have mastered defualt iron-sights. Something i dont care to learn but love my red dot.
Balance this game!
slow down shotguners and give them 100 hp like almost everyone else. Make it so they also need 2 or 3 headshots at close range to down someone…
W:ET instantly ‘clicked’ because right of the bat it showed new players that there was more going on than a bunch of people shooting at each other.
The first thing a beginner does is scroll through his inventory to get an idea what the game is about. In WET and ETQW you go through a myriad of strange exotic options and you’re aching to figure them all out and see what they can do. And it doesn’t disappoint! Rather than the object in your hand doing one particular thing it suddenly shows that there’s countless of applications for the stuff you’re carrying around. Limited only by your creativity and tactical insight.
Take note that DB currently does NOT have this. Rather than the utilities being there with the player, they only appear in the right context when you press the ‘use’ button. That way DB could have countless of different fun little tricks that remain hidden until the player happens to encounter it provided he’s at the right place at the right time.
In other words, context-sensitivity kills curiosity and the drive to push through the first few difficult hours when you start the game. The player really needs to be able to hold the stuff he’s able to do, even at moments where it’s useless.
Game still does not have sweet 1 v 1’s or epic RLRL battles…
[QUOTE=Bitey;505767]Those aren’t newbie friendly classes because of their abilities on that list Rhino is likely the only one who semi-fills that roll on the field. Lets not forget to mention the ‘invisible’ guy was always bad and now even removed, Proxy is built on a glass cannon with low hp, and the turret is easy enough to destroy.
The real struggle likely comes from the speed of this game compared to most other titles which makes the bar so high that only a very few can achieve. All of the mercs share the same general idea of make proper decisions, quick movements, and pinpoint aim which means if a player is unable to perform those three things they’ll struggle to do well. The other factors that likely contribute to player falloff is the power of a skilled player destroys any player lessor then them.
I feel that in general the entire game should be slowed down as a whole potentially to where it was before the speed increase(From the past?) was made. Then do a second pass of rebalancing all the mercs to move at different rates. Currently all the male Fops/Engineer/Snipers move at the exact same speed, why not add a 15%+/- speed variance between all of them? ’
I made a post much further in the past that took this idea to the extreme rather then keeping anything from class based gameplay, it should move in the other direction towards personalized merc gameplay where every character is unique. That means speed, dps, health, acceleration and abilities not just as it is currently with weapons and abilities.
aha XD Did you actually watch the fist Vid?
So you think we need a merc with auto aim to make it more nub friendly lol… (at the current state) or change everything :o
The point is that not every merc needs to be equally skill-rewarding. That trade-off is a common pattern in all competitive games.
And surely SD understands this as well. That’s why the ‘starter’ mercs are so incredibly vanilla. But Pixelwitch concern lies with that even those mercs may not be laying the bar low enough for newcomers to enjoy it.
Either way, it’s crucial that the starter mercs should not be seen as throwaway gun-fodder. These are the mercs that newcomers will base their entire impression on. These mercs are the most important mercs in the game. However boring and generic they appear.
I really don’t think the game itself is the big problem. People gone on to new games like day z, l4d, lol, dota. This old game style is just not wanted atm, and no1 can change this…
Only counterstrike has enough players atm to play at a pro level but we are also very far away what it used to be with CPL and so on…
So we either have super casual games or non shooter games… Just have to deal with it!
which shows the lack of FOOS (as the videos says… there was even an older one about those). you just dont stand a chance and get instagibbed without the feeling of having a chance to get to that point ever in your life.
Many newbies like to do eitheir an objectives guys or an Medic and they like to be backup by Pro guys
Its a good blend as they come to excel in their role in the team.
With Class less everybody can do it so you have to be at the same level of other to perform.
For the spectating view :If the game doesn’t offer variety and reversal of the situations in the game tactic, even with the best descripter it can be boring
I am talking about the people that struggle to track moving targets and be so percise like the weapons kinda are now… I am talking about people that don’t know movements or have the manual dexterity to pull off complex combos of weapons, abilitys, movement at the same time…
You’re absolutely correct. However, the FPS genre is very much alive these days. It’s just that all the F2P versions are generic **** that people can get triple A quality retail version with a lively community of at the budget bin or steam sale.
This means that DB can’t and won’t get away with simply offering a polished version of Brink. Players will taste it for a bit, they won’t even dislike it or complain, they’ll just drop it and forget about it. Retail games can be profitable in that scenario, a F2P game will crash and burn.
So yes, MOBA, co-op and all the other strategic/action type of games are hot. That’s because they’re addictive, have infinite depth and don’t require a Korean degree in RTS to have fun. Mobas like Smite take what is supposed to be the best element of an MMORPG and turn it into something that doesn’t suck and stays fun for hundreds of hours.
And there lies the crux. Any business guy looking at the MOBA market would stay well clear of it. It seems saturated with some really big players. And yet Blizzard has thrown in an enormous budget into the development of it’s own MOBA game.
They invented MOBA and they plan on retaking the entire genre.
They do this by taking the genre to a next level. Their maps are interactive and more dynamic. Their game modes are fresh and well, they’ve got the biggest experience when it comes to hero type characters clashing against each other.
Heroes of the Storm will succeed where any other venture will be doomed.
SD must realise that they’re the Blizzard of asymmetrical FPS. They proved that much with the ET’s, but Brink didn’t move the plot far enough to stand out.
Blizzard would fail miserably if they released just another dota with recognisable themes and skins. They’re not doing that, they’re reinventing the genre.
The same burden lies on SD right now. Reinvent objective based shooters or fail. London-based ‘protect the charge’ type maps are acceptable for beta but this alone won’t cut it. Map geometry needs to be modular and malleable, it needs to respond to the team and objectives can be much more intelligent and ‘emergent’ than simply watching that repair bar fill (Volcano anyone?). It’s also understandable that the early mercs are a bit tame but for a full version it needs to exceed TF2 in creativity or people will just shrug.
The currently huge clip sizes do a decent job of making it ‘newb friendly’ imo. I only really see bad players struggling against people outside their skill margin, which is pretty large comparatively. The biggest issue I’ve seen is that new players tend to always IS, which would be tough to track with at close range for any player.
