Balancing Aura/Proxy/shotguns

(smartIsland) #1

If you had to make a decision to help improve the balance what would you do?

(immenseWalnut) #2

I would go with lower shotgun damage, increase shotgun fire rate, and increase number of shots in each reload and total ammo carried to balance it.

This would force players to have to track better rather than just being able to pull the trigger the moment their crosshair is over the target without needing to follow the target. Basically, it would make it more difficult for SG users.

If you go head to head against an SG user with a slower moving merc with an auto, you need to track your target accurately (which is difficult due to their fast movement speed, and even more difficult if you are AD strafing yourself), so they are harder to hit than you are, but it is easier for them to hit you (it just requires timing instead of tracking).

The only other option I can think of is add some momentum, so that the fastest moving classes take more time to change direction than the slower moving ones.

(Spencley) #3

Non of the above. Its simple, Don’t nerf shotguns fix them. No weapon should oneshot without a headshot.

Furthermore all weapons should have massive accuracy penalties when jumping

(Amerika) #4

Proxy’s with SMG’s are far better than shotgun using Proxy’s. I’d either decrease her speed a bit if something had to change. And I’d only suggest that change because flanking Proxy’s with SMG/SMG setup can do ridiculous hit and runs and not because she is using a shotgun. Otherwise I’d leave her unchanged.

Edit - Holy crap I butchered English on this post. That’s what I get for trying to do multiple things at one time.

(Eox) #5

They’re perfectly fine, so is Proxy/Aura’s speed. At longer ranges shotguns won’t do jack at all, while every other non SMG primary weapons will be able to keep their DPS. It’s only possible for a shotgun user to maximize his damage output at short range. With a SMG kind of weapon you can keep your DPS at any range, assuming you have a good enough aim. I wouldn’t be surprised at all to see competitive games played without a single shotgun. Not because they are overpowered, but because automatic weapons are technically far better. It’s better to kill something from afar than having to rush at it and taking risks.

[quote=“immenseWalnut;10438”]I would go with lower shotgun damage, increase shotgun fire rate, and increase number of shots in each reload and total ammo carried to balance it.

This would force players to have to track better rather than just being able to pull the trigger the moment their crosshair is over the target without needing to follow the target. Basically, it would make it more difficult for SG users.

If you go head to head against an SG user with a slower moving merc with an auto, you need to track your target accurately (which is difficult due to their fast movement speed, and even more difficult if you are AD strafing yourself), so they are harder to hit than you are, but it is easier for them to hit you (it just requires timing instead of tracking).

The only other option I can think of is add some momentum, so that the fastest moving classes take more time to change direction than the slower moving ones.[/quote]

That’s something I could deal with. I’m against a shotgun nerf so far, but that small rework is far from being unreasonable, and pretty smartly done.

(Darkcola) #6

lighter builds should suffer more speed/movement penalties when hit.

shotgun range is fine, if damage decreased. I mean significant damage decrease along with increase ammo count. Should do the trick.

Dont nerf speeds. Speed in games is nice. slow is back to BF/COD/cover games.

(Darkcola) #7

amusingly, smg + smg for proxy is a bit silly. There should be a strict limit of 1 smg in her build regardless of loadout card. So if she had a primary smg, it should only come with a regular side arm/handgun. If she had a shotgun, then she can have her machine pistol back.

(Zenity) #8

I haven’t made up my mind yet.

Watching top aimers play, I have yet to see anybody really struggle to take down a shotgunner (though occasionally they get killed when ambushed, which is to be expected) and they usually play slower classes (Fragger, Sawhammer, or Sawbonez).

I think this may be a case like the P90 in Counter Strike. On lower levels of play it is hated because it’s extremely easy to use and can take down even the most proficient players occasionally. But in top level play it’s almost never used because it simply doesn’t quite cut it in effectiveness compared to other weapons when used in the best possible way.

This kind of balance curve is a good thing to have. Because it allows weaker players to get some success, without unbalancing competitive play. It may seem cheap or unfair, but it’s also a big part of what makes multiplayer games fun and accessible.

(Darkcola) #9

[quote=“Zenity;10516”]I haven’t made up my mind yet.

Watching top aimers play, I have yet to see anybody really struggle to take down a shotgunner (though occasionally they get killed when ambushed, which is to be expected) and they usually play slower classes (Fragger, Sawhammer, or Sawbonez).

I think this may be a case like the P90 in Counter Strike. On lower levels of play it is hated because it’s extremely easy to use and can take down even the most proficient players occasionally. But in top level play it’s almost never used because it simply doesn’t quite cut it in effectiveness compared to other weapons when used in the best possible way.

This kind of balance curve is a good thing to have. Because it allows weaker players to get some success, without unbalancing competitive play. It may seem cheap or unfair, but it’s also a big part of what makes multiplayer games fun and accessible.[/quote]

I agree with this:
shotgun allows easier frags for exactly this matched skill level.
I have yet to play a game of Db with a real team though, so shotgun serenade abounds with very silly back rages simply because I assumed my teammate did the obvious thing and instead they went full retard.

(Eox) #10

This kinda makes me sad though : shotguns wouldn’t be used at all in high level competition due to their lacklusterness in ranged combat. This means that we would only be able to see in competitive to all kind of machine guns/SMG, snipers and burst fire weapons.

In my opinion, a good competitive game has to make sure that all weapon types are worth the use in high level competition… But maybe a Proxy shotgun loadout is pefectly viable at high level play with that MP400 secondary.

(Szakalot) #11

lighter builds should suffer more speed/movement penalties when hit.
[/quote]

there are no movement penalties when hit in this game.

(Darkcola) #12

lighter builds should suffer more speed/movement penalties when hit.
[/quote]

there are no movement penalties when hit in this game.
[/quote]

Sorry I was channeling CS 1.6 thinking. I mean to say - there should be those penalties in this game for lighter than air characters and not for the slowest ones.

(B_Montiel) #13

None of the choices is good to me : I’d say that increasing other mercs speed would be an interesting thing to look at.

(riptide) #14

Proxy and Aura are both fine. Once Rhino, Bushwhacker and Stoker are unlocked you’ll realize it’s like a scout going against an engineer/heavy in tf2.

If you haven’t played with all the mercs then you really can’t comment on them. Not to say that some won’t be overpowered/underpowered. But it’s way too early to see how these recent adjustments play out.

(swiftPentacle) #15

The problem with proxy and aura is they can just hop in and hop out, esp proxy since she can hop back dropping mines and it’s SO easy to get someone with this trick. Their speed definitely need to be tuned down. Want to mess up the other team ATM? All you have to do is have proxy/aura hop in and do some crazy dance while other pick off the others.

(Player2) #16

Before anyone can decide whether or not shotguns need to be nerfed they need to be made consistent. The worst part about shotguns isn’t their damage, but that the damage is unpredictable. If within 5m was always a one shot then I would have no problems playing around it. The current system has one shots with no consistency, which just leads to frustration.

(RuleofBooKz) #17

none of the above.

look at more solutions please - there are like eleventy threads on this subject already. None of them even so much a suggest such nonsense as slowing the game down.

Go back. Read eleventy threads on the subject, get real solutions, then try again with a real poll

(Szakalot) #18

simple:

increase HS multiplier. Decrease damage

(RuleofBooKz) #19

not the HS multiplier for shotys please. Getting one hit killed by a shotgun when on full health isnt cool for a “skill based” FPS

(B_Montiel) #20

[quote=“riptide;10596”]Proxy and Aura are both fine. Once Rhino, Bushwhacker and Stoker are unlocked you’ll realize it’s like a scout going against an engineer/heavy in tf2.

If you haven’t played with all the mercs then you really can’t comment on them. Not to say that some won’t be overpowered/underpowered. But it’s way too early to see how these recent adjustments play out. [/quote]
I totally agree. They are definitely counter-picks to light classes. But the thing is, we don’t know when those characters are going to be released. Right now, it makes the game fairly unbalanced. For those who are looking for a good weapon at picking lights, the timik-47 (stoker default main weapon) is especially good at picking light enemies. So try to look for a skyhammer card in the meantime, some loadouts have this weapon.