Balance v3


(spookify) #1

As everyone knows a lot of my talk goes into balance and now finally getting a chance to play every merc for many hours each here is what I found:

SAW:
Probably the best medic killer.
His max spread seems to be reached very fast and in an area where you need to kill 2 or 3 people it is very difficult and actually frustrating that you arent popping more heads. Running forward and blasting shouldnt really be as big of a spread penalty as it is. He’s a Mobile medic…
I think his damage is spot on.

Phoenix:
Used to be my favorite. However now I think he is pretty much useless both in shooting and abilities. His gun is weak and it is sickening getting 9 or more headshots and someone not dieing. I think he was perfectly fine before the nerf. You had high skill high accuracy players using him and they were wreaking CC noobs… I did not feel it was a reason to nerf. The whole thing that medics shouldnt lead in kills still needs to be looked at if Phoneix gets 7 head shots then he should beat a Stocker or Fragger!

Stocker:
My new favorite so dont nerf him! I can kill anyone with him and even get 2 or 3 kills in a row! He’s the only run and gun shooter in this game that is fun to play. His ability needs to be looked at. A direct hit with the flame should stick to the person OR give a ton more damage! A direct hit should be like 65% of that person HP or more so only a few bullets take him down and you can more onto the next person. The flame should also be better defined or higher. I throw it and people long jump over it… Heck I even long jump over my flames for basically no damage.

Thunder and Fragger:
Both these classes are muhh… Both these classes are easy targets for snipers and both these classes have muh abilities. Thunders shock grenade is basically useless because even if I hit a person right on their aim is not affected and they can still shot in my area. Dont other games spin you or make your gun sway? Fraggers nade is just as dumb still. We had lots of talks about this back in the alpha and it was come a long way from being a bouncy kick ball thing. The timing seems odd… By odd I mean not like ET haha! If you count to 5 it will blow up in your hand however if you count to 4.8 and throw the nade will blow up at 5.5 or more? WTF!! There is something with the code and the throw that adds time. The bouncing of the nade is still not feeling right. The trajectory of the nade should determine the bounce level or roll level. Something needs to be tweaked again.
As for their guns… Both Muh… Their HP is their advantage… Their gun are OK at aiming for the head but most of the time you think I have a huge amount of HP and I am slow as crap so you body rage. When you do that you start to get owned by the better players so then you start aiming for the head as this slow tank trying to spin around hitting this players… NO RLRL with these guys and you are almost a sitting duck… I will only use this class if there’s 10 shotgun noobs on the other team and thats it…

Rhino:
Shotgun is uesless and pistol is OK.
Seems balances for as slow as he is…

Val:
Fun as always.
Been getting massive FPS loss in game when people join or quit. Its inpossible to sniper when your frames go from 200 to 60… Also when people shoot at you their tracers or something really drop the FPS in game. Is is crazy noticeable when sniping.

Arty:
Yep you nerfed him good job… Seems to be a pure Iron-Sight shooter now and I hope that was your point. With Red-Dot he will be unstoppable however right now hip-fire he is very hard to use and frustrating. Might be the recoil animation but I cant use him like I used too…
Give me Red-Dot and watch the Arty ownage!!!

Bushwhacker:
Seems fine.
His gun is fairly inaccurate but when you have a turret covering your butt there not much else you need. I enjoy playing him but cant wait around and camp a corner that hard.

Red-eye…
No thanks… Maybe with red-dot I will use him…

Shotguns ALL:
F them!

Nader:
Interesting Gun… I kind of like it. Seems more accurate then Bush’s. I hate her grenade launcher… Anti seems to like it because thats all he uses and gets owned using it haha… Even direct hits do not kills someone so if that doesnt happen F that! I do miss the noob panzer style class… You should always kill a noob panzer before he shot and that was the key!

Thats all I got right now basically I am Stocker and Val and then a random 3rd class in almost every game. This week has been crazy frustrating because teams have had a lack of medics AGAIN so no good pushes on certain objectives.

Last night I also saw 2 or 3 things that I was like O God… If I invite my friends back to play DB and say OH YEAH its so much better; the 2 or 3 things would make them insta quit…

#1) Wall Jump that makes people super human, like spider man and make you shoot basically straight up and try to track this bouncy wall jump spamming noobs. It looks beyond unreal and the collisions are there so they jump right through u… Basically what I am saying is the gravity of the game looks off when you double jump coming at someone…

#2) Shotguns…

#3) No USA Players… We are nice we play in Euro servers…

#3) No use for Medics…

#4) Meat grinder… In SW you dont get XP because the map changes before the XP is counted. I also then do not get crates. OBJ game play is what 8 v 8! To may for these small maps… One turret on bridge stage 1 and hold off everyone…

#5) Performance and FPS loss…

#6) Broken MG’s

#7) Picking 3 Mercs… Still dont like only having to pick 3 mercs especially in a pub…

With so much that has to be done I do not see this game going to open beta anytime soon. I mean really there are still animation, collision and millions of Bugs… Can SD be realistic and say yeah Open beta 2016? Open Beta should be a very close to finished game where only content is added. The player base starts in the open Beta and tourneys and leagues and Money all start with open beta’s. Please get it right before rushing into open beta!


(Glottis-3D) #2
  • picking 3 mercs is bad. especially in a pub. “we need more medics!! lol, the team doesnt have them, or the only guy who has them is a nub, so pretty much useless”
  • Phoenix is too weak. 9 headshots for a kill is frustrating. i used to like him a lot.
  • shotguns are almost nice - just get rid of 1shot kills in close. even on small mercs. should be combo of shotgun+secondary shot(s) for that you can reduce switch from shotgun to secondary for these mercs.

(Violator) #3

Feedback on the mercs I’ve played this patch:

Proxy - good to play for the parkourness. SG doesn’t seem as OP as previously but still seems to make a lot of players rage.
Skyhammer - his main AR rocks! Airstrikes only effective at disabling the EV - do little damage to players most of the time. Pistol is meh but you never really need it tbh.
Vasilli - still good to play, no arguments there really. Shame he’s only useable on two maps (Whitechapel and Dome).
Bushwhacker - turret seems very OP, instakill. Was perfect a couple of patches ago. Main weapon seems good.
Fragger - MG not too bad, very situational. Nade almost useless. Ditto for Thunder (nade even more useless most of the time). Magnum’s unusable - too much recoil.
Red-eye - rifle seems a bit strange, seems luck when scoring headshots and rewards spamming too much up close. Nice at medium / long range.
Nader - one of my favourite classes. The launcher takes a bit of time to learn to be effective, but should do more damage on a direct player hit. Main weapon pretty good as a backup / finisher. Pistol bad (Only semi-decent pistol I’ve found is Bushwhacker’s of the mercs I’ve played).
Saw - not played much but nice main weapon.

General concerns

The small maps mean lots of tight corridor shooting which I’m inherantly bad at. I prefer medium range but there’s usually little of that in DB :(.

HPB pwnage / corner kills behind cover.

3 mercs limit - not a fan of this either. Rather than unlocking ‘squads’ (which I’ve not really found a use for, I just change mercs in the lobby between games) why not add extra slots instead up to say 6? At least let the player have one of each class type.

The MG / sound loop bugs. The MG on Whitechapel drops the FPS down to a slideshow and certain classes seem to instagib with it with an insanely high firing rate.

Wall jump - still really counterintuitive the direction you will jump off at (key direction (?) rather than mouselook direction). Please fix this :).

Massive unlock grind - once you hit level 10 it is hours of grinding to unlock the next level.

Balance - shuffle seems totally random so stacked teams are still prevelant.


(INF3RN0) #4

I still haven’t gotten arty/rhino unlocked yet, but…

-Redeye is still far too effective at body spam. He should have his body damage reduced immediately.
-Shotguns have needed a straight up rework forever. Let’s test something new please.
-Vasili would be nice to have a med/long range scope adjustment, but I’ve been having a pretty good experience with CQC sniping lately anyway.

Otherwise everything feels pretty well balanced and I like the weapon choice variety with card sets (duplicates for days…). Based on my experience so far, every merc feels like it can be just as effective as the next when it comes to combat if you play it to its strengths. Recoil/kick is fine for everything I’ve tried so far too, so maybe arty is the only one with an excessive amount. I’m only playing on the weekends and my accuracy is in the 40% margin for all weapons, multi-kills from headshots feel great, and mouse feels quite good as well. Worst thing so far is what appears to be a huge drop in server performance with a lot more stuttering, delays, etc.


(Humate) #5

nader - her smg is pretty sweet, probably the most enjoyable to use in terms of feel. GL is pretty decent also, but prefer not to use it too much.
vassili - good old vas… was always a stud. Have not played him extensively in the last few patches… but Ive had fun watching others play him.
redeye - a bit spammy, haven’t played him a lot though… seems like an ideal pick for maps like CW / Dome.I think vs average vas snipers he has a bit of an edge.
thunder - again havent played him a lot, but I recall his spread being super low… which is interesting because playing against him, he doesnt seem to dominate like he used to.


(spookify) #6

With all the talk about Echo on other threads would we be able to see some echo stats or data?

Something SD would like our feedback on?

OR

possible straight up stats for Val, Stocker or someone else?

Score per Minute Stats? I wouldnt mind seeing this to see how people are doing.

I have 2000 minutes on this patch and I know people that play a lot more then me. There should be some good data points :slight_smile:

As you/SD are well aware stats will be a huge addicting force in this game. People love the BF3 and BF4 stats and how detailed they are. Stats, combined with a Rank System boom bam! Winning! Oh yeah and a spec mode like LOL has where anyone can watch any ranked game or actually I think they can spec any game. That would be huge! The specs could twitch the match or work with twitch to have a bot in every server… Something! FORWARD!!


(potty200) #7

I am surprised after so many people with different views can agree that the shotgun is just not working right now. It is not often you have spook, me and inferno agree on something. I am glad the heartbeat sensor has become less effective while I haven’t played but the shotguns need sorting or just take them out if you cannot get them right. I would go as far as saying it is more needed than a performance patch…


(Anti) #8

We actually found a bug recently where Shotgun damage scaling over a distance was being calculated wrong, which lead to the very inconsistent feel to them. Once that is fixed getting the balance right will be a fair bit easier.


(chippy) #9

Finally some evidence to all the times I’ve said the shotguns are so inconsictent :stuck_out_tongue: Will be interesting to see the difference!


(Glottis-3D) #10

nice find!!! i knew it!


(spookify) #11

Anti only says over distance there was a bug… I have noticed this but also hate the inconsistent damage at close range… Does that come from not all the pellets hitting? Every time you run into a shotgun #1 they are crazy fast and #2 you have no idea if that first shot is going to kill you so it leaves you will the feeling like, oh I am still a live wtf OK…

I hope lots of bugs get hit this next patch and also the FPS loss…

Game seems to run amazing at 200 FPS!! Even in a euro server if I have 200 steady FPS look out…


(Glottis-3D) #12

lags wont disappear even with 200fps =(


(spookify) #13

All I basically play in now is euro servers and the lag doesnt bother me to much anymore. Especially after a few warm up rounds or shots.

What hurts is FPS loss.

#1) People Join and People leaving the server (Huge Glitch, Lag, FPS Loss)
#2) People Shooting (Tracers or general contact with people cause massive FPS loss)
#3) Air Strikes, Arty, turrets, nades and other abilities. (All this going on causes huge FPS Loss)

I think this is the biggest problem right now other then maps, shotguns and a few balance tweaks.


(potty200) #14

Still think shot guns are with the wrong merc. Shots are too quick and too effective close distance. Much smaller hitboxes with the light mercs and increased speed makes it hard for even good trackers. I wouldn’t have much fun as a new player vs them.


(spookify) #15

Closing the Nexon Launcher also helps with FPS!

Still Bad FPS playing today!