Back to the Basics

(Samurai.) #21

Yeah i would definitely have to agree with Inferno in a lot of cases here, the underlying message i am finding is that when there is a problem with core game play mechanics… instead of solving this problem by sorting it out head on, we are introducing a new feature to respond to it (creating a new problem and the existing 1 is still around but buried deeper down the list of things to fix).

My actual feeling towards this is the ECHO system. I feel like too much reliance on statistics to gather feedback from certain mechanics and then basing a solution on making these statistics balance out is what is occurring, rather than actually seeing the impact the change is having on the game.

[video=youtube_share;zYvMOpV2Rjs]http://youtu.be/zYvMOpV2Rjs?t=1m41s[/video]

Take the example in this video (1:41), the example used in the video says that we the players moaned about the number of times we had to reload in comparison with achieving kill streaks. Echo’s solution to balance out the statistics on the reload to kill ratio is to increase the ammo clip.
This isn’t the only possible solution - what about:

[ul]
[li]reducing the rate of fire[/li][li]increasing damage/head-shot damage[/li][li]Alter the spread creep patterns[/li][li]Alter the recoil[/li][/ul]Not all of these are better solutions but they can all influence the reload to kill ratio not just the ammo clip.

Also i don’t feel that secure on how the statistics are gathered as surely there are further influences on the statistics being fed into ECHO:

  • The map design - obviously longer range maps will have higher reload to kill ratio’s while close quarter maps will have lower.
  • The players being monitored are just bad aimers (there is quite a range of skill between players in the alpha).
  • Then you have even further unreliability through the variation in performance for each member of the alpha… when some are struggling to achieve 30fps clearly they are not going to be able to achieve multiple kills when their game is like a slide show.

The result from all this is that the issue with the weapons aren’t necessarily addressed and the guns will balance out statistics for ECHO for now, but later on when further maps, players and performance issues are sorted surely the ECHO statistics will just change again. ECHO is a great tool for identifying potential issues in some aspects of the game, but i don’t think solutions should be based on trying to balance out the statistics for all aspects.

(.Chris.) #22

I think SD are smart enough to know all that already. The video to me seemed like it used an over simplified example to get across what it can be used for, I’m fairly certain they have tweaked all the values you’ve listed.

(ImageOmega) #23

Good post, Inferno.

The highlights of going back to basics for me are:

  • spawn waves
  • reduced weapon spread
  • base movement speed (no accel)

I really feel like these ideas would change so many things within the game that any nitpicking we are doing now would immediately change. Regarding what Maca said about re-requesting the same ideas over and over, I think it’s because we are happy with the changes going in the right direction, but it needs to even go further. Weapons were tweaked and really are a vast improvement over what I first remember in the alpha, but we’re still not quite there to having satisfactory fights where you should absolutely be able to kill multiple enemies if you get the drop on them (ie: their backs). Right now, if you get the drop on three enemies facing away from you, you’ll shoot the first and second (maybe), but run out of ammo somewhere between trying to take down the second and third enemy and this is at fairly close range.

Also, movement acceleration was adjusted and the delay in strafing was removed, but making the accel close to none and increasing the base movement speed would help make the game feel a whole lot smoother as a player. Also, while we’re at it, why not increase the jump height? This idea especially fits with Anti’s post revealing they would have a “Trick Jumping” pass over maps.

Finally, let’s force class dependency. At the very least, let us try it out in this Alpha. Remove regen and ammo crates. Let us depend on field ops and medics. If you feel like that could put off newer players then put TF2 style dispensers in the game so there’s an additional source of health/ammo as created by engineers. This should provide plenty of opportunity for newer players to find health/ammo without littering the map with ammo depots nullifying the need for a Lt. or forcing players to practice their championship hide and seek skills to regenerate health before re-engaging.

(attack) #24

about the most of inferno +1.at the moment their also way too many spawnpoints this is confusing less more central between the stages would be better

(Ashog) #25

They just need to get brave enough and finally try in one of the patches low RoF and improved strafe speed. Problems solved.

Oh and also spawn waves and longer spawn times :slight_smile: But later :wink:

(rookie1) #26

Interesting points INF3RNO
must be debate one by one until coming to a final solution .
I would like to see a check list with lots of

(Anti) #27

Indeed! :slight_smile:

In all honesty we’re not using Echo as much as we should right now, but we’re getting there. It definitely doesn’t make our decisions for us though, or cause us to take the most obvious solutions :slight_smile: What it does do is give us data that allows us to test changes or prove that the feedback we get from you folks is actually of a an issue sufficient enough to warrant more work etc

Overall this is a very good post Inferno, it certainly helps re-focus the feedback. It had become fairly obvious in recent threads that feedback was focusing on heated debate of the smallest elements or mechanics of the game when more fundamental elements seemed to be the cause (mostly map stuff from what I can see).