Augments, should there be any change?

(Drac0rion) #1

Ok, so, according to SD
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gz4MwboA6hk (32min into the video)]
the reason why Pineapple juggler is still in the game is because people have paid for loadouts that have this augment.

So now I’d like to hear the community opinion, if there’s anyone really fond of Pineapple juggler specifically.
And while I’m at it…

THE GAME IS STILL IN BETA, nearly EVERYTHING should be a subject possible to change. I do understand the way they justify their stand on the augment changes, but it’s a free game to begin with, whoever paid for their “bling” took up the decision themselves to spend money on a free game IN BETA. To be exact, they paid for the RNG, I doubt most of the players who bought any cases got the loadouts or the rarity they were hoping for. In the end most of those players still probably got the desired loadout and rarity through trade ups as it reduces the RNG the most.
Why must there be a single superior loadout for a merc when there are 8 other loadouts to possibly use?

Up until Pheonix/Stoker release, the augment distribution between loadouts for every merc had been rather poor to be exact. There are at least 4 mercs as of now, that have 1 loadout that is considered superior to the other 8 by majority of the community(Sparks being probably one of the best examples). How is this balanced?
Right now, any ability boosting augment usually makes those loadouts much more appealing than the rest without one.(Shouldn’t an augment like that exist just to balance out having to deal with a weaker secondary weapon or something?)

I’d like to think that even the players that have paid a good amount just for their specific loadouts would agree to some augment changes other than just improvements to make the augments more desirable, if it were to balance out loadouts more evenly.
If SD manages to make other loadouts near as desirable as the ones people have paid money for, is it really that bad?

Also I would very much appreciate if everyone would also let us know in the comments how many cases they have paid for if they have bought any. Would make the paying customers stand out a little more among the voters.

(Drac0rion) #2

I didn’t mean for it to post the link as a video… can someone help, please?

(LifeupOmega) #3

Just because someone paid for something doesn’t mean that those people are entitled to have it stay the same forever. My friend bought Fragger back when he had 2 nades, should he be reimbursed now because Fragger only has 1? Or should Fragger be reverted all the way back to how he was when that transaction went through? No to both. They removed throwing knives early on, why does their argument not apply to that?

This is a stupid, stupid ideal that only limits the potential of sub-par loadouts. Who actually bought a loadout with PJ on it because of PJ? My guess is next to no one. Same with Big Ears, Sneaky, Try Hard and possibly Cool as well. They’re all completely out-classed augments compared to almost anything else, and are never, ever the reason people buy a loadout.

This also ties in to how good some cards are compared to others, and while this fits their F2P model, it’s also completely frustrating to have up to 8 of your mercs cards be downright useless - not even situational, but useless.

Why are those in charge of balancing loadouts so seemingly stubborn when it comes to tuning them to be as close to equal as possible? Why are we stuck with 1 card for Sparks which has all of the best perks on it, and then the other 8 are throwaway? Who thought that was a good idea? They’ve gotten slightly better at it recently, what with the newer mercs having some competitive loadouts to choose from, but we still have things like the C94 Phantom, 383 Sparks, and R93 Rhino as an example. You get anything else on these mercs and you’re gimping yourself, because the other loadouts range from “I can get away with this because its a pub” to “downright unusable throw it in the trade-up bin”.

Whoever is in a charge of the balancing might want to start asking for input on loadout and augment balance from the community, and take a long hard look at the results that come in.

(Drac0rion) #4

Too bad nobody is sharing if they’ve paid for their loadouts, really curious if they’re more on the replace/buff side or the rework side.

(Talak) #5

In my 354 hours playing Dirty Bomb. I have never thrown back a grenade. I don’t even know what key bind it is. Most likely F because the game needs as many functions on a single key as possible… At least Splash Damage finally prioritized disarming c4 over reviving a teammate laying on top of it.

(triteCherry) #6

I don’t see how they could buff very weak augments to the level needed to make all cards viable. There are different values of augments and as long as one card has several high value augments (like the sparks card), the system will be unbalanced. Not to mention that some mercs have their own augments and most mercs share augments making it difficult to balance.

(Drcipres) #7

To balance most of the stuff they will need to rework most of the augments because they will never be at the level of less damage from explosives, the utiliy of some augmets is shit compared to those really good augments

(SaulWolfden) #8

Pineapple Juggler is just kind of worthless as an idea in general, though I’d also have voted for reworking augments/loadouts for mercs that need it which is necessary for mercs like Phantom who only have like 1-2 loadouts worth using.

(Gung-ho) #9

There are plenty of games that despite something be paid for it is still subject to alteration which basically invalidates SD’s position.

My only concern could be if SD have included a clause in the EULA that a purchased load out must retain the same features (however the features may be changed in strength). That is the only caveat but something that can be worked around by making that load out card no longer obtainable and a new load out card appear in its place for trade ups/ins/cases/store. In some cases this could make a no-longer obtainable load out a strong advantage for a card holder but I’m certain they could still nerf augments restricted to that card.

From my perspective SD aren’t doing the required balancing checks (which goes beyond simple load out cards) because they simply can’t be bothered as they’ve put it in the too-hard basket. The merc system is Dirty Bomb’s thorn due to the large increase in balancing checks it produces and is a carry-over problem from Brink and to be frank it doesn’t seem like SD have the conceptual capability, the resources and the will to create a fully balanced merc system.

The existence of “high value” cards even suggests that despite a desire to avoid the “pay to win” model SD still snuck through an element of pay to win to potentially help sales.

(Jostabeere) #10

I don’t really think people would mind if loadouts they pay fore become more viable.
Remove bad perks, and give more loadouts useable perks so things like 1 or 2 loadouts only being viable won’t exist.

(Drac0rion) #11

I’m really glad so many of you share my point of view on this.
While I’d like maybe some perks replaced(I think Cool/Pineapple Juggler/Try Hard are too situational to be competent compared to others), I’d still like for the most of them to stay but be greatly empowered( like Sneaky removing footstep sounds completely, don’t think it would be an overkill), BUT actually I would also like for ability enhancing augments to be removed(simply buff abilities if these bonuses are missed), just to keep nearly all augments rather average, like Stoker, my favorite example.

In my personal opinion that would be the direction to perfection, Stoker doesn’t have any augments to empower molotov and I don’t see anyone complain he should have, while Skyhammer does have Explodydendron which I do believe he really doesn’t need that bad, but loadouts with that augment are still considered superior.

(Jostabeere) #12

[quote=“Dracorion;126860”]I’m really glad so many of you share my point of view on this.
While I’d like maybe some perks replaced(I think Cool/Pineapple Juggler/Try Hard are too situational to be competent compared to others), I’d still like for the most of them to stay but be greatly empowered( like Sneaky removing footstep sounds completely, don’t think it would be an overkill), BUT actually I would also like for ability enhancing augments to be removed(simply buff abilities if these bonuses are missed), just to keep nearly all augments rather average, like Stoker, my favorite example.

In my personal opinion that would be the direction to perfection, Stoker doesn’t have any augments to empower molotov and I don’t see anyone complain he should have, while Skyhammer does have Explodydendron which I do believe he really doesn’t need that bad, but loadouts with that augment are still considered superior.[/quote]

Every loadout should have one augment that directly boosts their ability at Bronze, one offensive at Lead and one supportive at Iron.
For example Drilled - Springy - Explodydendron

(aRagRappy) #13

The argument that someone paying for the loadouts means they shouldn’t change them is ridiculous. A person isn’t entitled to keep something that is overpowered because they threw money at the game and frankly would be moving towards pay-to-win territory. On the other hand if the changes made useless parts actually worth something the person would be quite happy to have the changes, especially if they spent money on it.

No one is going to to miss things like pineapple juggler if they were replaced with something that was actually helpful. Plus people throwing down money on phantom didn’t keep them from severely nerfing him.

Surprised they’re so against making all loadouts competitive to each other when what we’re asking for are buffs or reworks of things that are weak, which I doubt we’ll see too many complaints about.

Though they did make some of the really weak augments like bomb squad really good (it should probably be renamed to make more sense with it detecting other deployables besides explosives such as turrets and healing stations)

Really hope they go back and rework older loadout sets, seeing dumb things like quick eye on shotgun loadouts but not on long range merc loadouts like arty/kira/redeye makes me facepalm.

(SaulWolfden) #14

[quote=“aRagRappy;126876”]The argument that someone paying for the loadouts means they shouldn’t change them is ridiculous. A person isn’t entitled to keep something that is overpowered because they threw money at the game and frankly would be moving towards pay-to-win territory. On the other hand if the changes made useless parts actually worth something the person would be quite happy to have the changes, especially if they spent money on it.

No one is going to to miss things like pineapple juggler if they were replaced with something that was actually helpful. Plus people throwing down money on phantom didn’t keep them from severely nerfing him.

Surprised they’re so against making all loadouts competitive to each other when what we’re asking for are buffs or reworks of things that are weak, which I doubt we’ll see too many complaints about.

Though they did make some of the really weak augments like bomb squad really good (it should probably be renamed to make more sense with it detecting other deployables besides explosives such as turrets and healing stations)

Really hope they go back and rework older loadout sets, seeing dumb things like quick eye on shotgun loadouts but not on long range merc loadouts like arty/kira/redeye makes me facepalm.[/quote]

Yeah I’d actually like to see the faster weapon switching go to the shotgun loadouts instead of the quick eye or w/e because that makes sense since shotguns are not always good in all situations for the mercs that have them and a secondary (Fletcher, Proxy, etc). I’d much rather have quick eye rather than quick draw on Redeye’s G75 since the GSR benefits more from ADS.

(Eox) #15

I think it’s a bit too soon to say if Pineapple Juggler is still useless. The most recent change felt kind of nice IMO. Let’s just see how it’s going on and keep tweaking around…