Assault/Soldier

(stealth6) #1

Why is this class in the game? Legacy? What was the idea behind keeping it, instead of distributing the weapons to other classes?

I don’t really see the point to the assault class. (You might have guessed already :D) He has a bit more ammo and does a bit more damage? But apart from that he’s useless?

Whats the difference between a Soldier running into a battle vs an engineer with a rifle? As far as I can tell they both have roughly the same chance and after the battle the engineer is more useful than the soldier.

One of the points raised on irc is that the soldier is tankier and carries the panzer, but in the games current state that’s not the case and I don’t know why you’d keep a whole class in the game just for the sake of one weapon. Why not just give the panzer to another class as a trade off. Like field ops can carry a panzer, but no ammo or something.

This isn’t supposed to be a rant about the soldier, I’m just curious as to why he’s in the game, why would you play that class?

tl;dr Why play assault?

(.Chris.) #2

You could say same for covops, they have sniper and that’s pretty much it. I suspect both classes will get additional abilities later on?

(stealth6) #3

True, but for covert ops I thought stealing unis was coming (saw some hints towards it in the files) and I can see hacking working for the covie too, but assault just seems like dead weight.

(Anti) #4

The Assault classes role is supposed to be on the very front-line, breaking through it and other bottlenecks and choke points that the enemy establish. They have (or should have, you tell me! :D) greater killing power, higher health and abilities that help bust through those tough areas (Conc grenades, Flash Bangs, Grenade Launcher etc). They also carry extra grenades which help with this.

In an ideal world, especially 5v5 comp, I’d like to be seeing teams setting up in a position where they can send their Assault guy into a bottleneck (say Whitechapel’s church) first, with the team bursting in behind him on the back of his initiation of the fight.

That’s the dream! If you feel they’re not playing out that way then let us know. Maybe other classes are too effective, maybe we’re not creating a good enough front-line with the maps, maybe the abilities don’t work well enough etc

(EnderWiggin.DA.) #5

Do the flash bangs work? They just make a smokey thing for me. They don’t blind me at all, even at point blank.
Soldier plus medic team works good, but soldier alone isn’t anything special.

(stealth6) #6

Well in a bottleneck you’re going to have at least 2 people firing into a tight spot (crossfire), so what more chance does a soldier have compared to another class?
The only advantage I see then is the flashbang can blind them, but I’d probably prefer an extra engineer instead. 3 engineers and 2 medics. Then just revive train our way through. The lack of grenades isn’t going to stop us. Especially thanks to the 15 sec spawn time…

(H0RSE) #7

[QUOTE=Anti;413768]The Assault classes role is supposed to be on the very front-line, breaking through it and other bottlenecks and choke points that the enemy establish. They have (or should have, you tell me! :D) greater killing power, higher health and abilities that help bust through those tough areas (Conc grenades, Flash Bangs, Grenade Launcher etc). They also carry extra grenades which help with this.

In an ideal world, especially 5v5 comp, I’d like to be seeing teams setting up in a position where they can send their Assault guy into a bottleneck (say Whitechapel’s church) first, with the team bursting in behind him on the back of his initiation of the fight.

That’s the dream! If you feel they’re not playing out that way then let us know. Maybe other classes are too effective, maybe we’re not creating a good enough front-line with the maps, maybe the abilities don’t work well enough etc[/QUOTE]
If their designed role is to be a frontline fighter, then perhaps they need to be more “tanky?” I mean, if they can’t do any objectives and offer no tools/buffs for teammates, then maybe their strengths (health and firepower) should shine through more? Now I’m sure this is going to get into a big balance debate, like “well then everyone would just go soldier and bullrush through certain points,” but is that really that much different then say, the attackers choosing FO’s on Battery, and spamming airstrikes so the engies can build the ramp?

I understand it could be a delicate balancing act, but having 1 tanky, bullet-sponge to choose from, isn’t a foreign I say at least ent concept - TF2 does it and it works. I say at least entertain the idea.

(stealth6) #8

[QUOTE=EnderWiggin.DA.;413769]Do the flash bangs work? They just make a smokey thing for me. They don’t blind me at all, even at point blank.
Soldier plus medic team works good, but soldier alone isn’t anything special.[/QUOTE]

The flashbangs are a bit broken atm, you can turn off the blinding effect with one of the graphics settings, but this will obviously be fixed.

Excellent point here, you’re team is never going to be a balance, like 1 of each class. If the assault is really powerful then you will get cases where people will try something like that.

(Apples) #9

The obvious thing would be for the assault to get one objective (carrying explosive) as the engi already has turrets, mines, repairing stuffs (EV, mounted weapons) and disarming. I dont get why assault wouldnt be a plant class as it’s typically its role, he’s more solid to get in that crucial position and arm under fire if needed, then he can either back up and defend or die trying… And in defense its role is more natural as he should be the first choice when you want to go for the “killing machine”, not the medic nor the engeneer, he should stand out a bit more and should become the choice for killing.

I hate to say this but in BC2 they pretty much nailed it, if you disable vehicle and go for weapons (classic, not magnum bullet close quarter sniping for exemple ^^), the assault class wass really more powerfull (IMO) in killing people, with the m16 and the other (overpowered I admit) assault rifles (which I cant remember… something 94 maybe?), the M60 with the medic was also super tough but I allways had better killing time with assault class…

Well I really think assault should plant though, engie already has a bazzilion stuffs to do and the more usefull gadgets (so far), ETQW way could be good here, if so as Stealth6 mentionned, why do we keep this class if it doesnt serve its purpose? it’s not that much tougher than the other class, we can say that any other class can carry heavy weapons, and it doesnt do any objective, remove it?

Peace

(DarkangelUK) #10

At the moment a 5v5 lineup seems to consist of 2 medics and 3 engi’s… with 3 turrets. The engi+turret combo is outweighing any firepower the soldier is meant to bring, and the turret keeps shooting when he’s down so that makes him the more desirable role at the moment.

(stealth6) #11

Totally agree on BC2 nailing it, except recon in that game … well even recon was good, just most people used it wrong. That’s when I started questioning the 5 class system.

(ailmanki) #12

Hasnt the soldier, the biggest model? with a huge backpack? Like a big target -lol. Should be smaller, if he is the guy to run in. Also some protection, else one good sniper is enough.

Maybe if he could give some deadly punches?

And yes c4 for the soldier would be great.

(H0RSE) #13

I played shotgun recon, and I wreaked havoc :slight_smile: I pretty much played shotgun for every class…

(Breo) #14

Maybe add 2 more tactical granates (smoke, decoy) for the soldier class?
You can pick one of those nates (flash, smoke, decoy) each time, to reduce the spam set all the tactical granates to the same timer.

Edit: also give the soldier a akimbo as secondary? A balanced one ofc.

http://forums.warchestgames.com/poll.php?pollid=207&do=showresults

(Anti) #15

They do have more health, but we may still need to give them more. The post-process issues related to Conc grenades and Flash Bangs definitely aren’t helping right now though.

Am very surprised to hear this, I’d expect to see the Recon class used for the Sensor Grenade alone, it’s so valuable. As are the Fire Support guys with their Airstrike versus the EV. Assault’s double grenades are also very handy versus the EV.

I’d agree turrets are too good right now, but I really have my doubts that stacking them so heavily would be key (assuming no bugged walls etc). Medic stacks to some extent are expected in the design.

I’m going to get a password added to the Stopwatch server for EU so we can do some more oragnised 5v5 matches if we want, hopefully so we can generate some more interesting data. If you folks manage to get a couple of teams together and want to play then grab me on IRC and I’ll share the pass and either come play or spec :slight_smile:

(Apoc) #16

[QUOTE=Anti;413768]The Assault classes role is supposed to be on the very front-line, breaking through it and other bottlenecks and choke points that the enemy establish. They have (or should have, you tell me! :D) greater killing power, higher health and abilities that help bust through those tough areas (Conc grenades, Flash Bangs, Grenade Launcher etc). They also carry extra grenades which help with this.

In an ideal world, especially 5v5 comp, I’d like to be seeing teams setting up in a position where they can send their Assault guy into a bottleneck (say Whitechapel’s church) first, with the team bursting in behind him on the back of his initiation of the fight.

That’s the dream! If you feel they’re not playing out that way then let us know. Maybe other classes are too effective, maybe we’re not creating a good enough front-line with the maps, maybe the abilities don’t work well enough etc[/QUOTE]

Everyone dies too fast for anyone to be able to lead the charge, essentially they are going down within a second regardless of their class. Rof decrease pls.

(INF3RN0) #17

I don’t see the soldier being useful as a tank with nades. Especially in comp, nades will become almost useless against above average players. If there was a soldier that was faster than the rest of the classes and had a much larger ammo clip (say 40-45) along with an overall decreased rate of fire- then even I would drop the engineer class as my main means of getting the job done.

(Evil-Doer) #18

There a way to make an artillery strike easyier, as in maybe not such a long phase to get it off.

(DarkangelUK) #19

[QUOTE=Anti;413792]
Am very surprised to hear this[/QUOTE]

Screenshot_7.jpg1680×1047 208 KB

Seems it’s just too good a combination to pass up. They’re like an extra man on the team with some good placement.

I’m getting to the point where I’d rather they just weren’t there. I snuck into the objective room on London Bridge to grab the 2 pods to take to the EV. No one there except 2 turrets and they instantly pinned me to the spot. When I saw that lineup in the screenshot next map, I just left the server.

(tokamak) #20

How about making them the only class that is able to regenerate hp?

Or better even: Take them the Halo way. The Assault class has a shield that absorbs 50 hp but regenerates overtime, anything below will be treated as normal damage.

That way the assault class can take more chances and retreat if things don’t go as planned. They can be more aggressive and heroic.

This way you cater to a substantial group of shooter fans but you leave most of the game mechanics intact.

I don’t think merely giving them more health is the solution, that would only give them an edge on the first encounter and nothing else.

And all of this is aside my suggestions for riot shields and everything. The Assault class simply needs more toys. They would really suit Raven Shields futuristic heartbeat sensor goggles, that way they can asses the situation before going in.