Arty Vs Fragger

(APRenpsy) #1

I thought I bring this up, but I feel Arty’s ability needs a bit of a rework. At the moment Fragger seems to do what Arty does in ability only it is better in terms of use and flexibility. Here is the thing, Arty and Fragger both cause explosions both seems to have roughly the same radius. Arty can only use his ability outdoors, Fragger can do both indoors and outdoors.

While Arty does more damage with his ability then Fraggers it is because it comes down three times for one charge. At the moment however all that extra damage is only useful for taking out a vehicle. Usually the first drop is enough to take anyone down.

What I like to see is a E ability for Arty, a ability that lets the player choose between two modes to use his ability, Q will bring down a focus all and once barrage and E spreads out his three barrages randomly with a sec between each barrage for area of effect denial. Of course I realize Skyhammer covers this role of big AOE damage. So a suggestion would be to lower the damage of the new ability and make it cause alot of chaos in terms of distorting the enemy by dirt and muck on their screen.

(irishrOy) #2

Not really.

Arty’s artillery-strike is quite different from Fragger’s nades.

It may seem to be obvious, but Arty’s “explosions” are dropped from airplanes.
Arty’s airstrikes have a longer range than Fragger’s nades. As Arty, you can stand on one end of the street @ the map Chapel and call an airstrike on the defending-side’s snipers, for example.

When you laser-tag a location, the airstrike will come 100% sure and hit that place, where Fragger’s nades can’t be thrown as far and aimed as carefully as Arty’s airstrike.

So Arty’s airstrikes have a longer range, are more precise and deal more damage, I have the feeling.
Fragger’s nades can’t be thrown as far was Arty’s explosions (bc. Fragger’s nades explode after a travel-time of a maximum of 2s) and don’t always travel in the best way. However, he often has his nades at hand and they can be used indoors, too.

However, Arty’s airstrikes can also impact and do damage inside a house, because the Bombs always have a certain “arc” and curve.
For example at the map Chapel, an Arty can kill the defending snipers, who are up in the “Cave” with the MG mounted on the bridge at the beginning. You simply aim and laser-tag the “Cave” and the bombs fall in a perfect way, so the enemies inside the Cave take damage.

(APRenpsy) #3

Hmm that interesting point I forgot about thank for bringing that up. I still stand by my point however as Fragger can walk up and throw a frag there. While Arty is defenseless as he has to stand still for a couple second to mark that area down.

(eggplantSafe) #4

I think Arty’s airstrike shouldn’t be ‘all bombs arrive at the same time’ as it is now, but more like actual artillery - they should be a bit more powerful but arrive in a wider arc/circle and taking awhile, dropping randomly in that circle. For example if you have X Y Z as possible explosion zones, explosions would go Z, X Y, X.

(LuLNope) #5

First of all Arty’s ability is very unreliable. There’s plenty of places you can’t really bomb because marker suddenly turns red. Second of all, difference in range between Fragger’s nades and Arty artillery strike is completely negligible on most maps with Trainyard’s 3rd stage being the only exception right now I think. Additionally Arty has to see the place he’s about to bomb while Fragger can lob or bounce nades to enemies.

Overall Fragger’s ability is much more useful and it requires a big, fat nerf. Arty’s ability needs a slight buff, my suggestion is a 5-10% bigger radius at a small price of exact same increase of cooldown period.

(irishrOy) #6

[quote=“LuLNope;6284”]Second of all, difference in range between Fragger’s nades and Arty artillery strike is completely negligible on most maps with Trainyard’s 3rd stage being the only exception right now I think. Additionally Arty has to see the place he’s about to bomb while Fragger can lob or bounce nades to enemies.
[/quote]
There are quite some “exceptional” locations:
Almost the whole Trainyard-map from Stage 1 with planting the C4 down to bringing the case to da Choppa.
Chapel also has some long and open spaces along the EV and later on the open place with the cars and buses and the small yard where you insert the EMP-charges can be artillery-striked, too.

Arty has, as already said, a longer range that comes into play quite often. (At least I got the feeling that Fragger can’t throw the nades as far as Arty can, but I will test this as soon as I play some DB again)

(LuLNope) #7

If you want to test maximum nade range make sure to sprint and jump before throwing. Throwables inherit your speed.

If you’re not convinced that overall fragger has much more useful ability let’s just mention that fragger can cook grenades for insta kill-gibs, there’s very little indication that a nade is coming your way. Arty’s air strike has a relatively long delay between call and strike with a vertical line showing where it will strike. Although it’s not as easy to spot as say Skyhammers air strike marker, it still is ways more obvious than nades. And honestly, Fragger’s weapon should be considered his ‘second ability’. K-121 is the most reliable weapon in the game right now. High damage output, high ammo count, high accuracy over distance, reasonable accuracy at mid-low range, long range and slow damage drop-off.

(eggplantSafe) #8

Fragger’s long range accuracy isn’t all that good, or maybe it’s just me. Tried Arty’s artillery against snipers/campers, it worked pretty well, even though I would still prefer it to have a bigger area of effect, a little stronger, but bombs falling at a slower pace.

(irishrOy) #9

That’s why even I think, his nades should take like 75-60% of an enemy’s health, so no insta-gibs are possible.
This way, nades are used to finish off people, weaken them before going in a fight, throwing their aim off and distracting them. :wink:

(eggplantSafe) #10

Or, remove the pre-cook thing, and have grenades as they are now, perhaps add one or two. After all, I miss 60% of my Fragger’s grenades, but I also very rarely pre-cook them.

People are just whiny about grenades, because they’re actually useful.

(Szakalot) #11

if you remove pre-cook nades become extremely useless and boring.

I’m either a fan of slower-velocity nades: so it takes much more skill to land it at your opponents feet - and allows them to dodge; or high splashdamage but no OHK

(Raz) #12

I hadn’t really played Arty much before I got his obsidian card, and that is when I realized how weak he is. As people have stated, getting down his artillery strike can be very difficult, as it has to be placed in a certain manner, then charged up, and if you’re not simply using it at a random position in hopes of having someone run into it, then you will most likely be shot by the ones you’re aiming it at. This wouldn’t be too much of a big deal if it was simply a skill to use very occasionally and not something that you have to rely on, but it is the most damage output he has, so it’s definitely required to be used as much as possible.
His artillery strike wouldn’t be so much of a big deal if his weapon actually had decent damage. This might just be his loadout on the obsidian card, but that weapon is nothing compared to an M4 or anything alike. The shots deal pretty much the same amount of damage as a regular rifle, but it’s not automatic, which is the cause of its low damage output. This would have been fair if it wasn’t for the case that all rifles act in the same kind of hit-scan manner.
As it stands, Arty is not a character that I would touch if I wished to get any enjoyment out of the game.

(Parmenion) #13

I had the obsidian Arty too and this merc is garbage, especialy the base weapon, compare to redEye the damage is bullshit. With bullpup the damage become good but his ability is still useless.

1: Enemies can interupt the artillerie focus
2: In indoor map like underground you just can’t use your ability… At least skyhammer has a standard grenade indoor…

(humaneBerry) #14

I think his ability should be a spotter ability. Scan an area and mark enemies like the heartbeat sensor. This would then combine with outdoor artillery strikes. I see the damage potential of the skill but as it sits right now its usefulness is limited to RV maps. If you at any stage have to go indoors he immediatly drops in impact.

(Reddeadcap) #15

I for one think Arty should have more call down rounds, maybe one for each rocket Skyhammer’s plane drops or just 4 or keep his current fast cool down and maybe have the rounds sort of veer towards enemies if they’re within the radius or have the time it takes for the rounds to come in be faster or a possible combination of the above. Its hard to notice but yes, he has more range than Skyhammer and Fragger or is meant to at least, but in the time you call in those rounds, people are far away from the target unless its an objective.

Its nothing new but his default rifle is terrible, with players HOPING for tlthe burst AUG or BR

(solt.) #16

As a fan of Arty’s kit I’m happy with how his E stacks up to others.

With the exception of whenever I play Underground… because Underground.

(Reddeadcap) #17

[quote=“joshingMorsel;9843”]As a fan of Arty’s kit I’m happy with how his E stacks up to others.

With the exception of whenever I play Underground… because Underground.[/quote]
I believe you can shoot the glass pannels on the roof to allow the airstrike to happen indoors, but the main objectives themselves are also available to airstrike with wrecked roofs

(solt.) #18

[quote=“Redcap;9851”][quote=“joshingMorsel;9843”]As a fan of Arty’s kit I’m happy with how his E stacks up to others.

With the exception of whenever I play Underground… because Underground.[/quote]
I believe you can shoot the glass pannels on the roof to allow the airstrike to happen indoors, but the main objectives themselves are also available to airstrike with wrecked roofs
[/quote]

Nice, I’ll give that a go. So far there are only two spots I’ve been able to land strikes.

The top of the first objective & the top of the elevator.

(netherRecord) #19

I posted this in another thread but I figure I should post it here too.