are you tracking the new players coming in?


(Glottis-3D) #21

[QUOTE=attack;485478]every shootermap is at the first times confusing.or you think smbdy tell you which route is best in cs.if you talk about confusing maps take a look at ns2 .
i dont know if the modern gamer is that brainless that he needs a blinking arrow to every obj or linerarity like cod campaigns.
a part of the fun of a shooter comes from finding cool routes on maps and learn them.
in quake maps you can put 100s of hours of learning routes for different item timings, weapon pickus, avoiding enemy…
if i join a new quake map i dont expect to know after 1 round where every weapon is.
i want to grow and find stuff on the map which improve my skill.

if i want eas maps i play an moba(and ye i play LoL)[/QUOTE]

i think there is a ‘golden section’, an ideal balance where a map can be simple enough to drag players easily in, but also has enough depth and difficulties to keep you challenged for a long time.
and i wish SD will find this balance.
-some of this depth comes from tricks - difficult jumps, difficult routes tec.
-also such depth lies in tactical map layout. where you cannot hold a point/area if other point is not in control (or even several other points)


(Rex) #22

I don’t think the game is too complex or difficult, it feels rather like the opposite. Also the “current high skill level” is due to alpha and pro players not to the game itself. However the skill gap is still very low.

Yeah you mentioned it already many times, though it won’t change the fact that many people prefer servers with more players. 8v8 servers are probably one of the last reasons why they “fail right off the bat”. And by the way K/D would be the same on 8v8 and on 5v5.


(attack) #23

[QUOTE=Anti;485412]

The biggest impacters on people not hanging about tight now are poor performance, lack of usability (especially character information) and complexity/difficulty of the game (including a current high skill level). We are starting to address these already.[/QUOTE]

ok i think we have some misunderstandings here.

the players have not a problem witrh complexity. it is more the miss of chokepoints and “too many routes”.its unimportant how many routes you have if they all end in 2 or 3 chokepoints.
you want to have about 2 or 3 chokepoints to cover.lets say radar in et you have the cp to def and the maingate. (yeah its only one stage but a very exiting one).otherwise you cant set up a working def and get overrun.
look at this example. it explain it better. i have got by email and its very good and helpful video
http://www.worldofleveldesign.com/categories/csgo-tutorials/csgo-principles-choke-point-level-design.php

also very helpfull:
http://www.worldofleveldesign.com/categories/csgo-tutorials/csgo-how-to-design-gameplay-map-layouts.php


(Anti) #24

@shaftzor: Forcing 8v8 down people’s throats? We have servers of all sizes and are letting players choose what they want to play. Once matching is up and running we will probably offer less 8v8, but the choice will still be there.

@shifty: Performance issues aren’t a surprise, I didn’t say they were. We’ve known for a while, we know some of the causes, but most of them require considerable work to fix which is why they are taking a while to sort out.

@attack: No, people are genuinely confused about the game. Some players, experienced FPS players, have issues with the game simply because we explain nothing at present. “Hey, choose 3 characters from these 20, to play for the next X minutes”, nothing tells them what those characters do. It’s little things like that that form a barrier right now. Sure, you guys on the forum don’t have this issue because you’ve either been playing long enough to learn or you’ve gone off to experiment, but many people won’t.


(attack) #25

[QUOTE=Anti;485497]

@attack: No, people are genuinely confused about the game. Some players, experienced FPS players, have issues with the game simply because we explain nothing at present. “Hey, choose 3 characters from these 20, to play for the next X minutes”, nothing tells them what those characters do. It’s little things like that that form a barrier right now. Sure, you guys on the forum don’t have this issue because you’ve either been playing long enough to learn or you’ve gone off to experiment, but many people won’t.[/QUOTE]

ok now i get it :).
the 3 char option is a problem itself i think,in the current state.if you dislike your choice you have to rekonnect to choose an other char.
maybe implement it again at a later point.
theres smth very fine in natural selection,every death you get a mini movie ,in the bottom right corner ,with a helpfull tipp.
smth like:“staying in groups can increase your survive ability drasticly”
you can turn it of in options also.
i liked the brink system where you could see able objectives in this circle hub.


(Anti) #26

[QUOTE=attack;485498]ok now i get it :).
the 3 char option is a problem itself i think,in the current state.if you dislike your choice you have to rekonnect to choose an other char.
maybe implement it again at a later point.
theres smth very fine in natural selection,every death you get a mini movie ,in the bottom right corner ,with a helpfull tipp.
smth like:“staying in groups can increase your survive ability drasticly”
you can turn it of in options also.
i liked the brink system where you could see able objectives in this circle hub.[/QUOTE]

Character swapping will be more like the CoD games in future, you’ll be able to do it between matches without disconnecting. We are working on that menu at present.


(attack) #27

i mean in more from the point of view ,that if a new player connects first time and dislike the chars he cant try an alternativ char.he have to wait 10 mins .
ok thats the case in mobas too ,but idk .


(DarkangelUK) #28

OMG I knew it! Dumbing the game down! You just want to be like CoD OMGOMGOMG!!


(prophett) #29

“captures the magic of CoD”


(Kl3ppy) #30

Do it like BF, I like BF games more than CoD games :tongue:

[QUOTE=Anti;485497]@shifty: Performance issues aren’t a surprise, I didn’t say they were. We’ve known for a while, we know some of the causes, but most of them require considerable work to fix which is why they are taking a while to sort out.
[/QUOTE]

Good :slight_smile:
But how valid is the echo data under this circumstances? Scuderia Ferrari had a bad simulator/wind channel and they produced a crap racing car because the data they got was wrong. Can this happen with echo and xt too?


(Anti) #31

[QUOTE=Shifty.;485508]Do it like BF, I like BF games more than CoD games :tongue:

Good :slight_smile:
But how valid is the echo data under this circumstances? Scuderia Ferrari had a bad simulator/wind channel and they produced a crap racing car because the data they got was wrong. Can this happen with echo and xt too?[/QUOTE]

The Echo data is still accurate, although we are likely to see better accuracies as people get smoother FPS, but we are not talking about huge differences.


(ailmanki) #32

That is a flawed assumption. Your echo data is tainted by a players having bad performance, therefore not playing as they would play without performance problems.
The echo data itself might technically not be tainted through the performance problems, but you are neglecting the impact it has on player decisions.

Your priorities should be, in my opinion:

  1. performance
  2. skill - so that a newbie doesn’t have to play against a pro - unless he wants too.
  3. map design
  4. weapon design
  5. merc design

(zeroooo) #33
  • your game is WAY TOO EASY!

  • there is(nearly) no skill gap

  • there is no aim

  • time to kill is too fast

  • ROF would fix this

–> nearly all things who are mentioned here, were said MONTHS! (about 9) ago! in 9 months humans produce a working baby and you cant fix a few simple things which the community wants.

what have you done in the past year? there is nearly no progress (seeable)


(onYn) #34

Been away for a while, and simply lowering the rof would make this game so much better. It gives me the sads


(Protekt1) #35

ROF on most of the guns I’ve used lately seem fine… what guns specifically shoot too fast?


(attack) #36

[QUOTE=zeroooo;485513]

–> nearly all things who are mentioned here, were said MONTHS! (about 9) ago! in 9 months humans produce a working baby and you cant fix a few simple things which the community wants.
(seeable)[/QUOTE]
i dont think the ycant .they somehow dont want.its like they doing the opposit of what the playerbase want.
to be fair,they do some realy good work ,but most times in the wrong direction


(shaftz0r) #37

this kills me if you actually believe it. its like saying, “here choose a piece of fruit, there’s a ton of choices.” you than proceed to show them 50 oranges, 1 banana, and 1 apple, than claim to have choices for everyone.

when 1-2% of your playerbase can even run the game 8v8, you should probably rethink the entire situation


(Humate) #38

PC performance aside, 8v8 is hell of a lot easier for new players than 5v5. In 5v5 they need to get carried all the time, its annoying not only for them but for the experienced players on their team. This can be mitigated with a skill rating system, but we dont have one yet, hence the list of 8v8 servers.


(shaftz0r) #39

i dont understand this logic. the current map pool is horrendous, and makes it a meatgrind. at least 5v5 there’s room for error when playing with alpha vets, but in 8v8, its a cluster, backrage spamfest. no room to move, or even figure out what you’re supposed to do. I personally cant even stand playing for more than 20 mins at a time on this current patch, i can’t imagine what new players are going through


(BomBaKlaK) #40

Map Scale is way to small, I feel like a rat in a box, with some sort of reward at the end of the corridor, doing the same thing over and over … Maps and Objectives design are just horrible …