Anyone else feels.....


(Aza) #1

That SD spread themselves a little thin on making BRINK? It almost seemed as if taking on a project to make the game on three platforms sort of left out enough time to really give the game the polish it deserved, from a gameplay and technical standpoint. I do think Bethesda does have a lot to do with the unpolished release and these somewhat lengthy patch times to do things that seem to be no brainer and easy fixes. Like spawn time fixes and gun balances, weren’t these things that could be done on the fly through netvars? And yet it took over a month to implement. They must tread through alot of red tape from Beth just to get these small fixes pushed out the door or something.

Now before people start saying I’m trolling I’m not. I logged in almost 100hrs within the first week of release and loved every minute. In fact I hope to have some constructive discussions if at all possible so all you known trolls please don’t bother posting in this thread. If it derails into another pissing contest SD you’re more than welcome to delete/lock this thread.

As a warning, I am/was looking at Brink from a competitive standpoint so my views will be biased towards that. That being said, the more I played this game the more apparent to me that the game lacked any real depth to it. I always believed a game should have at least 3 aspects with good depth: Movement, Gunplay, Maps.

Movement: The whole SMART system on paper seems great and for the most part it is. It works as advertised mostly. The problem seems to stem from how shallow the system is. It just seems very binary in nature either you do it or don’t. There’s really no leeway to the system. If you looked at the more movement oriented games such as Quake 3 or even some of SD’s past games, if you saw a video of some of the things people did in them your reactions were usually ‘man I’ll have to practice that to do it’ and usually you would need to put in some effort to achieve some of those tricks. I’ve seen some brink movement videos and although they were pretty clever, never once did I think to myself that I couldn’t do it on the first try. If that was SD’s intent thats fine, not all games have to be the bunnyhopping/strafejumping fest that other games are. There are alot of other subtle meta games to movement though. Such as sprinting, there should be some conscious thought that goes into sprinting but its not, since there’s no limit to how long you can sprint everyone that I play with just seem to want it on perma-sprint. There are a lot of games that walking/running plays a role into gameplay. Having your footsteps heard etc made how you moved important. With the way the sound is implemented, with all the going deaf effects and and the radar, the footstep sounds meta game sorta gets distorted and doesn’t play a big role.

Gunplay: This is probably the bigger sticking point for me. It just feels like whenever I’m in gun fight 1v1, it feels like I’m fighting the lottery spread more than my opponent who I’m facing and when I come out on top it never feels as satisfying as it should. The current movement system could probably be overlooked if gunplay mechanics were good. There are alot of good constructive threads regarding how the guns should handle far as spread/recoil that i agree with so I won’t go into that. I do however feel that weapon management is somewhat lacking as well. For the most part there’s really not much of depth when it comes to how you manage your weapons. You use your main and swap to your alt if you run out of ammo and want a fast swap to finish someone. It mostly plays like this for alot of situations. Pistols don’t seem to hold the weight they should in this game, I found it odd that when I played I used the pistol as a long range weapon as a light and use my smg for everything else mostly. I think this will be resolved with gun balance tweaks and shotguns and such are lined up with the rest however.

Maps: I don’t have too much issues with the maps, for the most part they’re good. It just seems…when you look from an overview standpoint and look at all the angles and attacks you can make, the maps seem really deep and diverse. But for whatever reason when you actually play some of the maps those deep gameplay potential never pans out and it just feels really linear. Good thing is there’s always new maps that can be made or even tweaks to current ones.

What’s your guys take on brink and what if any issues do you have or solutions? I think it should be said that when discussing we should bring up what platform were talking about. For me all these comments are coming from the PC. I have played brink at a friends who has the console version and honestly most of these issues don’t bother me when playing on the console. The gun mechanics actually feel ok and movement fits fine. I know this will have PC people bring up how consoles dumbed it down for the pc. Let’s not go there. As much as I think SD should have spent more time tailoring it a bit more on the PC side, I don’t think they were afforded the luxury, and I just hope either SD or hopefully modders if/when the SDK comes out will remedy that.


(xdc) #2

I have too many problems with brink right now, but I don’t wanna explain it all in one post.

We shouldn’t be restricted to 16 players, we should have
dedicated spectator slots, and private slots available. max GAME clients can be 16, but still have more players connected to a server. Can’t spectate other players for crap, spectating is dead in brink. Please give us firstperson spectating, why not?

For the most part the interface is too low quality:
a few things that annoy the crap outta me, after joining/loading a server
you have to ‘press any button’ to join, you should just automatically go to
spectator and have to choose a team or spectator.

I don’t need to see ‘Security Wins’ at the end of a match after a movie clip is played
to know who won, etc. It would be better it this was cleaned up, for example:
skip the movie clip with win/lose, and go straight to the menu. Put
a chat box at the bottom so we can still chat to other players, also since
im the max level why does it need to show my XP gain?

the movie clips should have a cvars to automatically skip them,
give servers a cvar to skip the movie clips in-between objectives, and
clients a cvar to skip movies joining, win/lose.

I can honestly make a whole list, but when it all comes down to it, brink feels like a console game on a PC.
I’m still enjoying playing, and will enjoy the DLC that comes out. Hopefully though soon things are changed
And check out this thread


(Bork9128) #3

This in very true and the root of nearly all of the problems with the game

to put it in perspective lets compare the company size to the developers of halo and black ops

Treyarch (Black Ops) Over 250 employees
Bungie (Halo) Over 200 employees
Splash Damage about 70

so they have less than half the manpower to develop a game that needs to be on par with those juggernaut titles because that is the quality most people are used to and less money to to do it and as such need far more time to make the game

if brink was delayed to july or august they probably could have fixed many of the initial problems that made people leave and had proper beta testing plus good publicity


(Tandem) #4

[QUOTE=Aza;354979]it feels like I’m fighting the lottery spread more than my opponent who I’m facing
and when I come out on top it never feels as satisfying as it should.[/QUOTE]
Very true.

As for thoughts on Brink, issues and solutions, well…
it has been discussed to death at this point and I
have done my fair share of input. There are plenty of threads
and posts with lengthy write-ups on the subject by other players
which says it all imho.

I’ll say though I would have liked it if Splash Damage
pushed back the release date another year or whatever time
it needed to become what it should have been.


(alberto) #5

@aza

i think that those feelings have been said 1 million times and are the reason why so many people left this game.

The problem is that everyone understood it but devs/beth :rolleyes:


(jazevec) #6

To me, Splash Damage seems to be a “me too !” company:

  • back when Battlefield was all the rage, they desperately tried to make a game with vehicles (ET:QW)
  • when COD was all the rage, they made a game with “we eat cod” graffiti. And there are many similarities between the games.

(Englander) #7

Not quite sure about the lottery spread, if it was such a lottery why can the same player get highest fragger time and time again ? That alone tells you they are doing something better with their crosshair and tells you it can’t be a lottery. Also you have to take into account that a lot of duels will be getting interference from other players while you are in one, people with downed fire can easily be popping you from the side or back and you won’t even notice it not to mention the other active players around you who will be taking pot shots, with the maps being so tight this happens more than you will realise. There are 3 or 4 weapons in the game with what feels like to me equal spread to the Lacerator or AR, Thompson or MP40 so if this is the logic it must be a lottery in those games too while dueling!


(Zarel) #8

I think this game really would have fared (way)better if they focused it on one platform during their development, that way, they could then port it once it is that refined.

I find that they’d approach this in a very strong manner(all three platforms!), and given they’re such a…small team, they did not meet their target product well enough(as we can see by the game as the evidence).


(Smoochy) #9

[QUOTE=Zarel;355084]I think this game really would have fared (way)better if they focused it on one platform during their development, that way, they could then port it once it is that refined.

I find that they’d approach this in a very strong manner(all three platforms!), and given they’re such a…small team, they did not meet their target product well enough(as we can see by the game as the evidence).[/QUOTE]

all FPS games should be made for PC and ported down, not for elitists but PCs are much more powerful and can do much more than consoles. that way the PC crowd get the high-end title they deserve (as we splash the cash on gaming rigs) and consolers get a game that works fine on such old technology.

trying to make a game that works for both isnt always viable and is the reason we get cut down features and silly ideas like the magic F button that causes so many issues.


(Stormchild) #10

I like the idea that they should have focused on one platform at first, but then how would the PC community react ? Understand me. If one platform is to be prioritized for the first release of the game, it is gonna be the consoles (I’m PC player, but realistic.). This means that the PC ported version would come later, and even if it is well ported and good, how would the PC community react to a “port from console” ?

The idea is good, but don’t over-estimate the PC community. We like to think we are the elites, but lots of us in the PC community are rather conservatives and eager to be considered as the “real deal”.

But appart from that, I think it is a good idea for their next game to polish a console version that would bring the big chunk of the cash, and then port on PC + SDK (possibly superior version in aspects of graphical and tweaking possibilities, and competitive gameplay tweaks). Since most of the money would have mostly been made on console, it can be less a problem to give away SDK and allow users to tweak the game a bit. This way you can probably still please the PC community and make it strong and resilient too.
Now, if this goes well, the game will be played online for a longer time on PC with enough people so it’s worth putting a few partner adds in-game to get some cash to help funding a few updates once in a while or forum admins, something like that…
You get the more instant cash load from consoles sales, and then a little money from the pc online gaming (as well as reputation and game life overall). I am no expert in business plans, but I think there is something to dig in there.

They did it the otherway around with ETQW I think (PC then consoles)… don’t know how it fared.


(DarkangelUK) #11

It was a separate company that ported ETQW to console, and apparently it didn’t fare too well.


(Cep) #12

Exactly and I believe it was out of SD’s control too (no oversight).

I agree that a game should come out for the PC first and then be ported. For example the F key idea is certainly something we could have had on the PC version that then got ported across to the consoles but we at least could have had the ability to change the controls.

The trouble is publishers want to hit all markets simultaneously to reep max profit straight of the bat in case the game is a flop. Unfortunately this just means rushed out, crappy games which tend to do more harm then good to the developer and the publishers reputation.


(Smoochy) #13

[QUOTE=Cep;355133]Exactly and I believe it was out of SD’s control too (no oversight).

I agree that a game should come out for the PC first and then be ported. For example the F key idea is certainly something we could have had on the PC version that then got ported across to the consoles but we at least could have had the ability to change the controls.

The trouble is publishers want to hit all markets simultaneously to reep max profit straight of the bat in case the game is a flop. Unfortunately this just means rushed out, crappy games which tend to do more harm then good to the developer and the publishers reputation.[/QUOTE]

you up for some QW:ET tonight? thats if steam has decided to download it finally! kept getting suspended all the time last night. i also just reinstalled with an SSD for system drive and ran some app to tweak it but it kept putting into standby if not used (even when downloading!), got that sorted in the end. bizarrely in win7 you cant tell HDDs NOT to shut down any more (you cuold in previous versions) you just have to set it to x hours…


(Aza) #14

Really like the discussions voice here.

I have to agree that SD should have focused on one platform. But as others have said it just seems a more damned if you do, damn if you don’t situation. Had they gone and concentrated making a console version they would have alienated the PC crowd, and I think we already know what kind of backlash the PC community can exhibit(this includes myself). Me being biased I would have wanted them to do a PC version first then consoles. But looking at it realistically the PC community, even though I do think were a larger crowd then either consoles, we’re just a much more unforgiving group. If a game is bad/not so great on a console chances are they’ll still recoup and make a profit. I personally don’t think that is the case at all with PC games. There seems, least in my circle of friends who I play with, a more social aspect when it comes to actually buying a game more often than not. If there’s a console game that I want to get, I’ll buy it cause I want to play it. But with almost all the games I get for the PC it’s always a matter of what my friends thought of the game and asking whether they think its worth getting, and in these situations they’re usually pretty straight forward as to whether a game is worth the current cost of said games. Hell, I think even EA is sorta onto how the PC crowd works. Just look at how their games that get released on the PC and see how much they drop in price in such a short time. Bad Company 2 came out at I think the usual 60usd and in like two months or so after release it dropped down to 29 dollars, and now its sitting at 20 I think. Steam just had a summer sale of the game for 5.


(dazman76) #15

Some good points, well made Aza.

I’m unsure if this is rhetorical or not… I mean, this is exactly what SD did do. Placing multiple abilities on a single bind is absolutely concentrating on the console version, which I understand. To then bring this across to the PC version where the relevant restrictions do not exist, is further evidence that the PC version wasn’t even a priority. Buff/revive/interact on the same key, with no option to split? Sprint and SMART the same, even though jump, which also kicks in SMART, is separate? Again, with no option to split the bindings? It seems SD completely forgot they were even making a PC version part way through development. I just wish I’d figured this out before I paid for the game, which I could have done by watching the vid… oh wait, pretty much every video was either a console version, or the PC version being played on an “unsupported” 360 controller. I suppose if we check those videos again, we’ll also see that all buffs and revives are performed in open space nowhere near command stations or other players, and work perfectly.

I’ve unfortunately gone from being “kind of positive” to having no hope that SD will address any of these massive oversights. Developer silence has a tendency to do that I suppose. I really wanted Brink to special and different, and instead it behaves like the worst possible half-assed console port I can imagine. When ET:QW was released, I saw SD as being one of the best (and most dedicated) developers of the PC online FPS. Now, they seem to have sold out in every possible sense of the word. I wonder if there was some kind of ritual when they signed for Bethesda? Taking care of the largest market I can fully understand - ****ting on a small but dedicated following by feeding them a handicapped ported product, I cannot really get my head around. I guess the dream of the mainstream really does corrupt even those who appear to still care about their fans. Ah well, hopefully Tripwire will restore some of my faith with Red Orchestra 2.


(Aza) #16

Don’t get me wrong, I almost always came out on top far as kills. I ‘get’ the lottery and know how to deal with it. It’s just that its fundamentally different than any game I’ve played competitively. Now I know people might balk that I’m just crying cause it’s different but that’s not really the issue here. The game doesn’t reward accuracy, you’re better off aiming center mass than you are actually trying for headshots. I think alot of pc players have grown accustomed to aiming for the upper torso/head region and that was how i approached the game when I first started playing. It became readily apparent that this doesn’t work and I found my kills at least doubled going from actually trying to aim for the head to just doing center mass. Bear in mind that the current system actually benefits me cause I’m not as strong in the head shot area as I am with being able to keep my xhair lined up with the target at all times during movement. There’s just no control to the spread, there’s no real sense of recoil compensation, it basically stripped what little control we already had from the user, which i think is a bad idea. It just never feels as if I outplayed my opponent and thus it just never feels as satisfying for me. Again this only applies to the PC, the current system plays fine on the consoles from what I’ve played. This isn’t a dumbing down issue so I don’t want to have that argument, it’s just two completely different control schemes (controller and kb+m) and tailoring for each.


(Aza) #17

@dazman,

I think for the most part I’m starting to have the same sentiments as you. I dunno if it’s only me but I keep wanting to lay all the blame on Bethesda for all the missteps. I know SD isn’t perfect but it just feels like Bethesda had a lot to do with why Brink is where it is. I want to believe it was a time crunch decision made by SD to hammer out the console versions, seeing as how it was their first endeavor into the consoles, and they figured ‘well we already know pc so we can take care of that after were done with the console versions’ and unfortunately ran out of time to really give the all platforms the time it deserved. I don’t particularly care for the one button mash either but I do think it could have worked if it worked more elegantly than what it does now. (I don’t even want to recall how many 360 turns and sprints off to no mans land I’ve done trying to cap a command post)

It’s a real shame that the issues people have with the game make ALOT more noise than what the game does really well and I can understand the frustrations for the people who love this game(I have these kinds of discussions with a friend of mine who loves it on the console). Granted alot of the good things are stuff PC players have had the pleasure of experiencing long ago in their previous games, my friend can’t stop playing it on the console and loves the teamplay aspect. I do believe the smart system can mature into something really really nice if they’re allowed to expand upon it, whether in this game or the next, and the customization of your character…although I don’t particularly like/dislike it, is a very nice addition.