Anybody Else Feel that Martyrdom is Broken?

(supremeAnniversary) #1

My issues with Nader are how she discourages improving your skill. Supposedly, this game is supposed to kick your teeth in, but if you just sit back and spam nades around chokey corners, you’re sure to get some kills.

But my main beef here is, as the title says, with Martyrdom. When somebody better at the game comes up and kills you, you just activate your Martyrdom and kill them. It gives way too high a reward for such little effort.

I mean, I’ve seen a downed Nader win a game. The enemy planted the C4 last second and took the game into OT. Nader died on the C4 roughly 10 seconds before the bomb was supposed to blow. Our team’s Proxi comes bumrushing up after killing Nader. She went for the defuse and Nader activated her Martyrdom and killed her. Obviously we had no time left and lost.

A suggestion would be to either remove martyrdom, decrease its splash radius, or increase the time it takes between activation and detonation, so a player who is going to melee finish her to conserve ammo isn’t guaranteed to die because she pressed a button and blew up a second later.

Other problems with it are that, depending on your proximity to Nader when she blows up, you explode and can’t even be revived, so you have to wait it out to the next wave just because you walked to close to a dead character.

If anybody has a counterargument, I’m always willing to listen, but as it stands, this ability’s existence has an extremely negative impact on my experience in this game and I’d really like to see it changed.

(Jojack) #2

Please do a forum search and enjoy the hundreds of pages of discussion on this very topic.

(affableTricycle) #3

It’s been about a week and a half since Martyrdom killed me. That includes the entire duration of the free rotation and a few times where I jumped on a Nader’s corpse to taunt them and still got away in time.

Maybe your reaction times aren’t very good yet.

Still, it’s not like anyone would care if they replaced Martyrdom with something more fun. Most Nader mains don’t value it. And with good reason - it’s a crappy ability.

(Vexed) #4

Any ability that requires you to die is already going to have to be really incredibly powerful not to be bad. Add in that after playing against Nader a couple of times you start to take her down from range, or at least hightail it immediately on scoring the kill, and Martyrdom is really just a flashy way for bad players (myself included) to at least go even when a marginally-less-bad player fails to engage brain after killing them.

(Yak) #5

Try shooting her corpse. It’s not her fault you were too hasty.

(CCP115) #6

It’s a catch off for people who don’t finish their kills, just like how Sparks is absolute hell if you don’t finish all your kills, and I mean all.

I just want them to decrease the splash radius, as it sits it’s pretty damn big.

(Yak) #7

[quote=“extravagentBypass;45731”]It’s a catch off for people who don’t finish their kills, just like how Sparks is absolute hell if you don’t finish all your kills, and I mean all.

I just want them to decrease the splash radius, as it sits it’s pretty damn big.[/quote]

I wouldn’t mind this, right now she drops a Fragger nade. If this happened though, I want the fuse time shortened to compensate (not much, but a little bit).

(Conqelson) #8

I don’t play her but I’ve been saying from the beginning there has to be a relatively low skill, relatively offensive class in the game for DB will just loose money. Shitty players and people with shitty reactions like to play games too. Phantom is a little too easy and too powerful but I think Nader is just right and I chuckle every time I’m killed my martyrdom because it’s my own dumb fault.

(Keelin) #9

The radius does seem a bit much, but I think a better solution would be to just have a delay before it can be used.

I died to martyrdom a bunch today, but that is because I was playing Proxy and was only using cricket bat and mines. When I out maneuver a Nader completely and melee kill her it would be nice to be able to get one last swing in to finish her off before she can use the skill. I worked for that kill damnit.

Aside from that I really have no issue with it.

(umberInlet) #10

[quote=“Keelin;45776”]The radius does seem a bit much, but I think a better solution would be to just have a delay before it can be used.

I died to martyrdom a bunch today, but that is because I was playing Proxy and was only using cricket bat and mines. When I out maneuver a Nader completely and melee kill her it would be nice to be able to get one last swing in to finish her off before she can use the skill. I worked for that kill damnit.

Aside from that I really have no issue with it. [/quote]

If you took down a Nader up close, your better bet is to long jump out of there with your melee out rather than trying to finish her off within the 0.25 second margin that it takes for the nade to be armed.

(Frogteam) #11

I agree that the range on them can be a little unexpected, but it has led to one of my favorite sports (other than beating Phantoms with cricket bats).
Step 1: Shoot Nader till she dies
Step 2: Switch to melee and sprint at Nader
Step 3: 180 once you start to get close and then watch the Nader explode from a safe distance.
Rinse and Repeat.

(AirborneAsian) #12

Martyrdom ain’t broken, you just have to have a keen eye and shoot at a distance. Well, I’d agree with @Frogteam that the range is a little unexpected, but if you want to kill Nader with a melee weapon then you’d better kill the corpse right after she falls, because players using Nader usually gets off-track for a split second and back to normal again. Use @Frogteam tip and also think about shooting Nader farther away.

(PurpleNurple) #13

The more you play the faster you react to a nader dying infront of you. The first couple of weeks I died so many times to nader, but these days it’s very rare. When I do die to matyrdom I know it’s my fault. It’s fine the way it is because you learn to avoid it. My favorite thing to do is down a nader and pull out my knife and pretend to run at the person, but back off last second tricking them into matyrdoming.

(Alchimi) #14

Yeah same here, I feel that martyrdom is now borderline useless. Most players learned to avoid it, and you kill only people you forgot or were stuck in CC with you and a wall or something…

(off topic): To be honest most people finish downed players right now, I’m actually wondering if this will not impair Phoenix main ability, the self-revive.

(VYR3) #15

I find martyrdom is really annoying, but not super broken.

the worse thing I’ve seen happen from that ability (besides letting players not try to fight back until they are dead) was when someone on my team was corner peeking a nader and I thought it was a proxy, so when they died I ran into the room and got gibbed by a martyrdom.

I think that they shouldnt have an ability like this, I think they could do something a lot better for her. maybe give her a bigger grenade she can throw like fragger.

(Borganism) #16

The most enjoyable thing to do while playing as Nader, is to marty another Nader.

The only defence to the marty is to learn to avoid it. Just like the only defence to an airstrike is to learn the signs its incoming and avoid it. same with the laser, and artilery, and a sniper, and and and …

Just try and be more aware, there will always be the sneaky one that gets you but that doesnt make it any more OP than a Vasilli you don’t know about, or a fragger gren or anything else.

Well, except phantom. That guy is a dick. (I’m getting better at killing him, but that shield is still to tanky)

(redhotDetour) #17

Every time phantom hits me i matyr and take him with me. If im dfending bomb and im about to die i matyr. I think its a cheap skill if used right. I always hide on corners or lure people in so if i lose they cant run. Underground is a great match for nader on defense.

(bontsa) #18

[left][quote=“redhotDetour;45981”]Every time phantom hits me i matyr and take him with me. If im dfending bomb and im about to die i matyr. I think its a cheap skill if used right.[/quote]

Every time EV is repaired I 1-shot it back to Stone Age with Skyhammer’s ASS (AirStrike-Supreme). If I’m defending bomb and enemy is about to defuse it I ASS.

Every time enemies gather to group-orgy at HP station I swing a cooked Frag nade amongst them. If I’m minding my own business and come by a room full of enemies, I Frag nade all of them into 4rd dimension.

I think insert any skill except Arty’s strike here is cheap skill if used right.

Range of situations where Martyr is usabe and effective is so narrow it’s simply a trivial skill because it serves no consistent usable purpose, not because it’s “cheap” or “OP”. It is hilarious to get kills with and frustrating to get killed by, like what you could say of many other skills in the game atm. If Nader manages to place her/himself so while dying, that enemy meets him when exiting corner, it’d be practially same if a mine was there. He/She simply outplayed the enemy coming through corner, managing to use the narrow-gap skill in pretty much only situation it can even do anything against players that have at least seaturtle’s reaction time.

And sorry, this isn’t a personal attack ^^ You got your just as valid opinion as mine, I just found your post to be handiest to point out best the direction (or more likely lack of it) I feel this discussion has been stayed still for ever since first thread about Martyr was made.[/left]

(cornJester) #19

[quote=“Keelin;45776”]The radius does seem a bit much, but I think a better solution would be to just have a delay before it can be used.

I died to martyrdom a bunch today, but that is because I was playing Proxy and was only using cricket bat and mines. When I out maneuver a Nader completely and melee kill her it would be nice to be able to get one last swing in to finish her off before she can use the skill. I worked for that kill damnit.

Aside from that I really have no issue with it. [/quote]

That’s your problem, don’t finish her off. Kill her and run. She’ll finish herself off (giggity.)

(MTLMortis) #20

Quit meleeing to finish Nader and problem is solved.

Naders instinctively blow themselves up.

Heck, I slam F on my keyboard most of the time even when I’m not playing Nader out of pure reflex.