Any plans on ending nader spam?

#21

I can’t emphasize enough how true this is. It’s kind of intriguing to me, but she really is just one of those Mercs you’ve gotta play for yourself to fully understand her tendencies when you’re paired against her. I suppose it’s sort of cliché to say and true for all Mercs, but some of them have a feel or playstyle you’d have to experience firsthand. I’d put Proxy, Fletcher, and Redeye in the same category. They give people fits, but they’re not as big of a pain if you spend a weekend playing exclusively as one of them.

Spike damage versus sustained. A full volley of 'nades from her can take half of the EV’s health. Nader can also regenerate more 'nades much quicker than Jav could ever hope to. I get your point, but if you account for cooldowns then Nader wins hands down. It’s funny you say this though because I’ve always told people to play Nader like a fire support rather than an assault. I think Javelin better suits the role of assault (especially if you look at how most people play her) while Nader can effectively do everything I mentioned above. EV damage, generators, clear fire and smoke, turrets, shields, health stations, protect a bomb plant, etc.

(Runeforce) #22

But with the merc stacking penalty, it’s more like 9 nades around you, after they fired their first chamber.

What really seems to be your issue here is the free roration.

(Meetrock) #23

I’ve been playing Nader for most of the time in the past week, and believe me, she isn’t very effective as a fire support than assault. I’ve used her nades to do all the things you mentioned, and here are my impressions:

  • Using 5 of her nades to destroy some constructors (Underground South/North doors for example) is not enough, I always have to either shoot the constructor for 10 secs-ish to stack 2 extra nades for defense or try to wait for the 6th nade, which is always a success.

    • So in certain cases, she needs to use 6 nades to destroy a constructor, initially 5 are available, but then the cooldown starts, 5 seconds for a nade that’s 25 seconds for 5 nades. If the team isn’t covering a Nader while trying to destroy constructors, she is then very vulnerable because her best ability is on a cooldown, she doesn’t have very powerful weapons and she isn’t as tough as other fire support mercs (excluding Kira), using her support in this case is gambling, if you are not smart enough, you will definitely get yourself killed.

  • Her 5 nades only bring down about 20% ish of the EV health at a time, other fire support mercs can do much much more, Javelin can now bring the EV health down by up to %50 at one hit, Stoker can disable the EV with one molotov if it isn’t moving and the fire is spread beneath the EV correctly and you know about other fire supports. Moral is that nader isn’t veeery effective in destroying the EV compared to other fire supports, she is useful when the EV is actually low and needs to be stopped, but relying on her to destroy the EV isn’t practical.

  • Using her to destroy deployables is very useful, I always use her to destroy stations and turrets, but the only deployable I find hard to destroy is Turtle’s shield, somehow I always end up using all my 5 nades to destroy it, which is ridiculous. Bushwhacker’s turret can be destroyed by one nade if shot correctly, but typically takes 2 nades or 3 nades if they don’t hit correctly (if I’m low on health, I use walls to bounce the nades).

  • Using her to protect bomb plant is VERY useful, the best thing you can use a Nader for, is protect the c4. In my favorite map Underground, I always end up killing up to 4-5 people with my nades when they try to defuse, out of 10 plants, I succeed in defending the c4 in 7 times, which is a good ratio tbh.

  • But, she is also best at keeping enemies trapped. Take for example Underground engine room, whether she is attacking or defending, she succeeds in clearing the path half of the time, since that part of the map is tight and her nades will deal more damage to enemies, whether they are protecting the engine room or attacking it. Thus, she is not useful in open maps, spamming her nades in the open isn’t very useful, that’s why I stack my nades in closed areas so I can frag as much as possible.

(Jigstraw) #24

1: Nader takes 7 nades to destroy 500hp generators, unless you use 6 and a magazine of gunfire. edit: this may have changed since nader can now direct hit generators resulting in 15 more damage per nade as of a recent update

2: Her nades are on 7 second cooldowns, not 5 second cooldowns.

3: Nader has the exact same health total as skyhammer, stoker, and arty, so saying fire supports are “tougher” than nader is nonsense.

4: Nader has access to the crotzni, which boasts higher DPS than every single weapon fire supports have access to.

5: Bushwhacker’s turret has 120hp, and nader’s nades only do 90 damage on a direct hit, with 75 being the highest possible with splash damage, so no way you destroy one in one shot without also using gunfire to finish it off.

I agree with most of what you’re saying but you got a lot of that information wrong

(Meetrock) #25

I might be wrong on the cooldown time on nades, I actually never check the time I have left, I just try to use my other abilities, which is obviously the gun I’m carrying, I don’t use the nades as weapons unless I need to. And I’ve played all fire support mercs, Nader feels the weakest for me, maybe it’s because of the nature of her gameplay? I’ve played Stoker, Skyhammer and Fragger too, and they all feel stronger than Nader.

#26

And I have hundreds and hundreds of hours playtime with her… ;D You’re right, she isn’t the most effective Merc as a standalone fire support. But, she is the most effective assault that can double as a fire support when needed. That’s my main point here. A Nader played exclusively for fragging is wasted potential. She can fill many roles, and a lot of these rookie Nader players you see spamming wouldn’t give her such a bad reputation if they spammed something that could actually benefit the whole team.

You’d rather use Fragger or Thunder to destroy an EV or generators? Kira, Arty, and Skyhammer would be better if the generator were indoors? A Nader can save the day when your team is bogged down near the gen room on Bridge, for example.

This is very true though. Glad you’re having fun with her. :+1:

(Meetrock) #27

Just as you wrote this comment, I carried my team using her. I disabled the EV alone twice with her, stacked around 10-12 nades for each repair with some bullets. I also got an ace(7v7) using her nades only, I actually follow a technique where I nade an empty area so the enemy team runs the other direction, usually it’s a closed area so I use the remaining nades to frag them (%80 of the times the nades end up hitting the targets).

I also never use skyhammer/arty or kira in closed maps like Underground, I prefer using Stoker in that case (haven’t played him in like 4 or 5 weeks to test other mercs including Nader and Javelin). I tried Javelin at first after him, then Nader, and I actually love playing Nader in Underground, I feel like I can do both objective and eliminate enemies using her nades, since Underground is relatively small and very closed.

(HadronZodiac) #28

1 nader is fine i agree, but 4 isnt neccessarily the most fun thing

and u could say “OH WELL ANY MERC SPAM IS BAD”

well sorry to say 4 auras is easier to stop then 4 naders :slight_smile:

(K1X455) #29

1 v 4 Naders?.. that’s the problem.

I did say that Something is wrong with the other team dealing with Nader.

There are bigger problems in Dirty Bomb than 1 player dealing with 4 Naders… so I don’t think that’ll get any more priority than those issues I have raised.